2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[Beef Invictus]

Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep, . . .

Every team hypes their 1st rd picks, BFD.
Michkov gets all the attention this year, Luchanko is basically an after thought.

They posted a video of Risto stealing his lunch money in practice. Obviously a mistake that may get someone fired.

People here jump on a vague rumor with no substantiation that makes zero sense.
Why would they think Luchanko was ready off one exhibition game against scrubs?
Now if he dominates in game 5, matched up against a solid NHL center, that story may develop legs.

I look forward to when Jones is fired and you begin noticing the team spent years concerned more with appearances than substance as if it's a thing only you had just realized

 

[thedjpd]

Hes not making the team cause hes ready, hes making the team as some PR stunt to show management are the smartest guys in the room. People want him sent down so he can work on his offensive game and grow his skills, instead of just being the teams 3rd line center.

edit :plus even if Luchanko makes it they will still trot out the shit ass vets and scratch Brink or Michkov.

Yeah, sure.

It's a PR stunt. The Flyers would willingly sacrifice a 13th overall pick for 'PR.' And the moon landing wasn't real, either.

The funny thing about this pick is how much nobody agreed with it. Most people wanted Buium or Helenius, and the Flyers, amidst the criticism, still picked their guy. And now their guy is looking pretty damn good, so now the shift is 'even though we didn't know anything about him when we picked him, now that we've seen him excel in a few games in camp, we also know how to best develop his offensive game, and the Flyers will obviously screw it up by keeping him up for PR."

Newsflash: Development isn't linear, nor is it unilaterally applicable to every prospect.

There's a reasonable argument to be made that Luchanko playing with Brink and Farabee in the NHL may develop his offensive game more going back to Guelph. There are merits to going back to Guelph and being the driver in that whole team (which, by my account, he already has been).

Most top prospects get sent back for a few basic reasons:

1) They need time to bulk and gain size to deal with NHL rigor
2) They need to work off-puck skills to not be a liability on the ice when you don't have it
3) They need to develop the mental aspects and challenges of trying to win intense tournaments or championships

The funny thing about Jett is that none of those apply to him. He's a good size at 6'0, 190ish. HIs off-puck work is excellent. Guelph isn't going anywhere, his only hope is WJC on a stacked Canada team.

I dunno man, I feel it's too early for NHL, but I agree with the notion that if a player earns it, they should be here, regardless of age. Isn't that everybody on this board clamors for?

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Yeah, sure.

It's a PR stunt. The Flyers would willingly sacrifice a 13th overall pick for 'PR.' And the moon landing wasn't real, either.

The funny thing about this pick is how much nobody agreed with it. Most people wanted Buium or Helenius, and the Flyers, amidst the criticism, still picked their guy. And now their guy is looking pretty damn good, so now the shift is 'even though we didn't know anything about him when we picked him, now that we've seen him excel in a few games in camp, we also know how to best develop his offensive game, and the Flyers will obviously screw it up by keeping him up for PR."

Newsflash: Development isn't linear, nor is it unilaterally applicable to every prospect.

There's a reasonable argument to be made that Luchanko playing with Brink and Farabee in the NHL may develop his offensive game more going back to Guelph. There are merits to going back to Guelph and being the driver in that whole team (which, by my account, he already has been).

Most top prospects get sent back for a few basic reasons:

1) They need time to bulk and gain size to deal with NHL rigor
2) They need to work off-puck skills to not be a liability on the ice when you don't have it
3) They need to develop the mental aspects and challenges of trying to win intense tournaments or championships

The funny thing about Jett is that none of those apply to him. He's a good size at 6'0, 190ish. HIs off-puck work is excellent. Guelph isn't going anywhere, his only hope is WJC on a stacked Canada team.

I dunno man, I feel it's too early for NHL, but I agree with the notion that if a player earns it, they should be here, regardless of age. Isn't that everybody on this board clamors for?

You are kidding yourself if you don't belive this team operates heavily on optics and perception. Especially since the Cutter and Kolosov fiascos. My guess is they saw someone who fits their perception of what it means to be a "f***ing flyer" and they picked based off that. Briere even admitted they didn't want to pick an "undersized dman" cause they already had so many (citing Andrae, who isn't even gonna make the team).

And quit with the gaslighting no one is arguing the kid isn't a good hockey player. The only knock that posters have mentioned is his shot and that's gonna be a lot tougher to develop in the NHL then the ohl. There just isn't gonna be time or space for him, and the goalies are a lot better. If they want him here for the player he already is then congrats to the team they just drafted Scott Laughton 2.0 at 13th overall. Pick is gonna look real silly if Buium reaches his #1 D potential

So yea this whole situation screams optics and PR to me. Just watch their team propaganda video the Standard. Lots of talk about team, culture, putting in work, and playing the right way(theres a segment where John tells them straight up they arent the most talented. Imagine hearing that from your coach). Oddly not a lot of talk about winning, which I wish they were more concerned about.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

You are kidding yourself if you don't belive this team operates heavily on optics and perception. Especially since the Cutter and Kolosov fiascos. My guess is they saw someone who fits their perception of what it means to be a "f***ing flyer" and they picked based off that. Briere even admitted they didn't want to pick an "undersized dman" cause they already had so many (citing Andrae, who isn't even gonna make the team).

And quit with the gaslighting no one is arguing the kid isn't a good hockey player. The only knock that posters have mentioned is his shot and that's gonna be a lot tougher to develop in the NHL then the ohl. There just isn't gonna be time or space for him, and the goalies are a lot better. If they want him here for the player he already is then congrats to the team they just drafted Scott Laughton 2.0 at 13th overall. Pick is gonna look real silly if Buium reaches his #1 D potential

So yea this whole situation screams optics and PR to me. Just watch their team propaganda video the Standard. Lots of talk about team, culture, putting in work, and playing the right way(theres a segment where John tells them straight up they arent the most talented. Imagine hearing that from your coach). Oddly not a lot of talk about winning, which I wish they were more concerned about.

To be fair, I agree with some of the stuff you said Comcast is a dumpster fire and doesn’t give a f*** about the product. But I don’t know that they drafted Luchanko because he’s a “flyer” he was an extremely high riser and he’s young af. That being said a lot of us were pissed after the pick, whatever the kid does turn out to be he’s a gamer, I projected him as a solid middle end 2C but he looks like maybe I was wrong, I think a lot of us are glad we got him after we settled down after the draft. I think realistically this year at most he gets 9 games and goes down, but if he sticks, somehow he has to stay at 3C, if he get's stuck at 4C he’s gonna get Coots treatment and stunt his growth. Laughton is kind of in the way idk this is all a shit show

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Is he making the team because it's actually the best process and best thing for him? Or for a PR win for a management group that cares more about how they're perceived than anything else?

In the past, we have pushed for youth to play because it was the logical thing at the time, and no sooner. You don't need to pretend otherwise.

That's not accurate though. I seem to remember people wanting pretty much anyone under 23 playing in the NHL for the last few years for the sake of not playing Hathaway or Deslauriers or Seeler or whomever. Brink, Foerster, Frost, etc. were common complaints in the past, along with a slew of other middling defensive prospects like Zamula or Andrae. I know, I know, those guys WERE ready and Luchanko isn't!

We seem to be living in a weird cycle here. I remember back when Homer was the GM it was all about patience, especially with defensemen who I was told take longer to develop. Then for the last few years it has been about youth being the key and fielding the youngest team possible because vets are bad and youth is good. Now apparently we are not interested in our first round pick making the team because it is a "PR Stunt" or something stupid, as if Jett Luchanko is going to be some kind of draw for the Flyers or playing him too soon when he isn't ready is going to I'm not even sure what the insinuation is...make the Flyers look good?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

That's not accurate though. I seem to remember people wanting pretty much anyone under 23 playing in the NHL for the last few years for the sake of not playing Hathaway or Deslauriers or Seeler or whomever. Brink, Foerster, Frost, etc. were common complaints in the past, along with a slew of other middling defensive prospects like Zamula or Andrae. I know, I know, those guys WERE ready and Luchanko isn't!

We seem to be living in a weird cycle here. I remember back when Homer was the GM it was all about patience, especially with defensemen who I was told take longer to develop. Then for the last few years it has been about youth being the key and fielding the youngest team possible because vets are bad and youth is good. Now apparently we are not interested in our first round pick making the team because it is a "PR Stunt" or something stupid, as if Jett Luchanko is going to be some kind of draw for the Flyers or playing him too soon when he isn't ready is going to I'm not even sure what the insinuation is...make the Flyers look good?

Instead of defaulting to a grand conspiracy, it would help us collectively to look at what may be different with the individual cases.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I doubt very much I ever advocated for a just-drafted player to go straight to the NHL with one exception. Nolan Patrick was on a completely different level as a prospect, old for his class, and signifcantly more developed physically. I would hope no one is making that comp as far as prospects go.

It's also not just what's best for the player. It's when you want to start the ELC, which puts all AHL vs NHL discussions in a different group from Luchanko. Wanting to push players to the NHL at 20 and 21 and 18 are not the same discussion. I still want the former and have no interest in the latter. You may disagree and that's fine. But it's consistent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's not accurate though. I seem to remember people wanting pretty much anyone under 23 playing in the NHL for the last few years for the sake of not playing Hathaway or Deslauriers or Seeler or whomever. Brink, Foerster, Frost, etc. were common complaints in the past, along with a slew of other middling defensive prospects like Zamula or Andrae. I know, I know, those guys WERE ready and Luchanko isn't!

We seem to be living in a weird cycle here. I remember back when Homer was the GM it was all about patience, especially with defensemen who I was told take longer to develop. Then for the last few years it has been about youth being the key and fielding the youngest team possible because vets are bad and youth is good. Now apparently we are not interested in our first round pick making the team because it is a "PR Stunt" or something stupid, as if Jett Luchanko is going to be some kind of draw for the Flyers or playing him too soon when he isn't ready is going to I'm not even sure what the insinuation is...make the Flyers look good?

You remember wrong.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Instead of defaulting to a grand conspiracy, it would help us collectively to look at what may be different with the individual cases.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I doubt very much I ever advocated for a just-drafted player to go straight to the NHL with one exception. Nolan Patrick was on a completely different level as a prospect, old for his class, and signifcantly more developed physically. I would hope no one is making that comp as far as prospects go.

It's also not just what's best for the player. It's when you want to start the ELC, which puts all AHL vs NHL discussions in a different group from Luchanko. Wanting to push players to the NHL at 20 and 21 and 18 are not the same discussion. I still want the former and have no interest in the latter. You may disagree and that's fine. But it's consistent.

There was hesitancy about dropping Couturier right in! And Luchanko ain't Couturier.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

There was hesitancy about dropping Couturier right in! And Luchanko ain't Couturier.

I don't remember my opinion on it, but I do know that I've learned a hell of a lot since then and would hope we all have.

And also that his usage would have changed my mind even if I did want it.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I would love to see Luchanko....but where is he fitting in lol

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Instead of defaulting to a grand conspiracy, it would help us collectively to look at what may be different with the individual cases.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I doubt very much I ever advocated for a just-drafted player to go straight to the NHL with one exception. Nolan Patrick was on a completely different level as a prospect, old for his class, and signifcantly more developed physically. I would hope no one is making that comp as far as prospects go.

It's also not just what's best for the player. It's when you want to start the ELC, which puts all AHL vs NHL discussions in a different group from Luchanko. Wanting to push players to the NHL at 20 and 21 and 18 are not the same discussion. I still want the former and have no interest in the latter. You may disagree and that's fine. But it's consistent.

It's not even that I agree or disagree with Luchanko being in the NHL. I think he's looked good thus far and if he makes the team, great. If he doesn't, great. I just like to see everyone preaching patience again after years of crying about the Flyers hating young players and now a new conspiracy that they are trying to make their pick look good by playing a player that isn't ready, thus setting him up to fail and making themselves look bad for not only making the pick but also playing him too early. Sometimes, things just are what they seem: they think he's ready for the NHL. Are they right? We'll see. Is Danny Briere in a backroom with Torts saying we have to play Luchanko or the fans/ownership/pundits/whomever will be mad/criticize the pick? I'd be willing to bet not.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's not even that I agree or disagree with Luchanko being in the NHL. I think he's looked good thus far and if he makes the team, great. If he doesn't, great. I just like to see everyone preaching patience again after years of crying about the Flyers hating young players and now a new conspiracy that they are trying to make their pick look good by playing a player that isn't ready, thus setting him up to fail and making themselves look bad for not only making the pick but also playing him too early. Sometimes, things just are what they seem: they think he's ready for the NHL. Are they right? We'll see. Is Danny Briere in a backroom with Torts saying we have to play Luchanko or the fans/ownership/pundits/whomever will be mad/criticize the pick? I'd be willing to bet not.

Please set the PR thing aside because I don’t care and I didn’t speak to that.

So you don’t have an opinion on him, you don’t want to put any effort into understanding why it may be different, and you just want to bitch because you think everyone who agrees with you is dishonest. What a colossal waste of time for everyone involved and a ridiculous approach to life.

 

[ybnvs]

That's not accurate though. I seem to remember people wanting pretty much anyone under 23 playing in the NHL for the last few years for the sake of not playing Hathaway or Deslauriers or Seeler or whomever. Brink, Foerster, Frost, etc. were common complaints in the past, along with a slew of other middling defensive prospects like Zamula or Andrae. I know, I know, those guys WERE ready and Luchanko isn't!

We seem to be living in a weird cycle here. I remember back when Homer was the GM it was all about patience, especially with defensemen who I was told take longer to develop. Then for the last few years it has been about youth being the key and fielding the youngest team possible because vets are bad and youth is good. Now apparently we are not interested in our first round pick making the team because it is a "PR Stunt" or something stupid, as if Jett Luchanko is going to be some kind of draw for the Flyers or playing him too soon when he isn't ready is going to I'm not even sure what the insinuation is...make the Flyers look good?

Foerster Couts TK
Tippett Frost Michkov
Farabee Laughton Brink
Cates Poehling Hathaway
Deslaurier

1. Who comes out for Luchanko?

Then

2. Who comes out for Deslaurier?

They're not going to run with 14 Forwards through the season.

Luchanko doesn't make the team. It's absolutely a PR stunt to fluff the media sources. It's nice Luchanko gets to hang out with the Flyers for a little longer through preseason though.

 

[Curufinwe]

Give him his 9 games, and send him back down, he's earned it.

I dunno man, I feel it's too early for NHL, but I agree with the notion that if a player earns it, they should be here, regardless of age. Isn't that everybody on this board clamors for?

He hasn't even played a game against a mostly NHL lineup yet.

 

[Curufinwe]

Instead of defaulting to a grand conspiracy, it would help us collectively to look at what may be different with the individual cases.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I doubt very much I ever advocated for a just-drafted player to go straight to the NHL with one exception. Nolan Patrick was on a completely different level as a prospect, old for his class, and signifcantly more developed physically. I would hope no one is making that comp as far as prospects go.

Right, he was a 19 year old when he started in the NHL and yet within the first month of REGULAR SEASON action he got his head bounced off the boards against Anaheim, and was never the same again.

 

[deadhead]

It's not a PR stunt to want to take a close look at a top prospect and see how he fits with your current team, especially when you expect he'll probably make the team next fall (TK, Farabee).

I think one problem these days is there's way too much amateur media, everyone and his brother has a blog, Youtube videos, podcasts, etc. So it's easy for something to get quickly blown out of proportion.

And fans do get excited about prospects, especially offense first ones (b/c it's more exciting than a defense first defenseman) Michkov, Luchanko, if Barkey had been healthy he'd have gotten his share of attention, etc. It's good marketing to feed that interest. But I doubt marketing drives decisions - we're not a franchise that's struggling with cash flow.

 

[Canfly]

When they drafted Jett I said give him a couple of years and he can be our #2 Center.
I still stand by those comments. Send him back this year so he will receive the proper amount of ice time in many different situations, he more than likely makes a very good Team Canada for the junior tournament.
Here he may start out as the #3 Center but if they have him fourth line Center playing with plugs, what is he learning and developing from that.

 

[thedjpd]

Please set the PR thing aside because I don’t care and I didn’t speak to that.

So you don’t have an opinion on him, you don’t want to put any effort into understanding why it may be different, and you just want to bitch because you think everyone who agrees with you is dishonest. What a colossal waste of time for everyone involved and a ridiculous approach to life.

Not referencing you directly, but a lot of this forum does just that - regardless of action, every Flyers move is criticized ad nauseum. I remember a multi page thread on a 4th round for Johnson trade. This is a positive surprise that is even being entertained, and it has already turned to “they’ll screw him up now,” without even acknowledging credit that the pick was made in the first place.

I think NHL ready is evaluated individual but people quote trends - and again, there are always special cases. Jett isn’t under developed physically (even if there’s room to grow) and processes the game at a high level - usually one of those reasons is why players are sent back.

Is he ready now? Maybe, but it takes a knowledge and evaluation of his personality and attitude behind the scenes as well, which we don’t have access to.

 

[VladDrag]

I hate splitting Frost and Michkov

As long as he's got TK or Michkov on his wing for the majority of the season, it's gonna be good for him. I'd prefer to see him with Michkov, but TK and Frost have put up some extremely impressive offensive xG numbers over their time.

 

[FlyerNutter]

It's not a PR stunt to want to take a close look at a top prospect and see how he fits with your current team, especially when you expect he'll probably make the team next fall (TK, Farabee).

I think one problem these days is there's way too much amateur media, everyone and his brother has a blog, Youtube videos, podcasts, etc. So it's easy for something to get quickly blown out of proportion.

And fans do get excited about prospects, especially offense first ones (b/c it's more exciting than a defense first defenseman) Michkov, Luchanko, if Barkey had been healthy he'd have gotten his share of attention, etc. It's good marketing to feed that interest. But I doubt marketing drives decisions - we're not a franchise that's struggling with cash flow.

Optics is 75% of what drives the Flyers.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Please set the PR thing aside because I don’t care and I didn’t speak to that.

So you don’t have an opinion on him, you don’t want to put any effort into understanding why it may be different, and you just want to bitch because you think everyone who agrees with you is dishonest. What a colossal waste of time for everyone involved and a ridiculous approach to life.

No I do have an opinion, I think he's played well enough to be in the mix. I am not banging the drum saying he HAS to make the team or that he SHOULDN'T make the team. It is just funny to me that for years we heard about how much the team hates youth (despite regularly playing young players) and now when they are possibly playing a 1st round draft pick it is now a conspiracy theory not that they hate young players, but that they want him to play for something relating to PR (I know you may not have said that but plenty have).

He may not be ready and he may not stick or he may have a bad year or he may not make the team at all. But he also may play well and fit just fine. Everything that I have seen and read seem to indicate he can hang and we'll see if he does. If he doesn't, then ok he either doesn't stick or make the team and the Flyers were wrong it happens all the time not something we aren't used to. He shouldn't be in the NHL simply because he was a first round pick and he shouldn't be sent back to Jrs. simply because he is young. You may have disagreed with decisions in the past when they didn't play youn guys when you thought they played well enough to be in the lineup and should have been in there, that's fine, and you may disagree now that Luchanko has played well enough. Also fine. But the idea that they HAVE TO or CAN'T have him in the lineup because he or any other player is young is stupid. If he is good enough to play he should play.

Foerster Couts TK
Tippett Frost Michkov
Farabee Laughton Brink
Cates Poehling Hathaway
Deslaurier

1. Who comes out for Luchanko?

Then

2. Who comes out for Deslaurier?

They're not going to run with 14 Forwards through the season.

Luchanko doesn't make the team. It's absolutely a PR stunt to fluff the media sources. It's nice Luchanko gets to hang out with the Flyers for a little longer through preseason though.

Idk we'll find out. He may not even make the team. He may not get more than 9 games. We'll see what happens.

 

[deadhead]

I like Tippett - Frost - TK as a line b/c Frost is better on the move and those two provide the speed to flank him. Frost has played his best with Tippett on the LW I think b/c Tippett clears the ice for Frost.

Farabee - Couts - Michkov makes sense, Couts can CYA for Michkov as he learns, I think Farabee is poised for a breakout season now that he is older and had a full summer to train, Farabee is still only 24 and has been a solid 50 5x5 scorer from age 21-23. 80th in total points, 66th in pp/60. This despite the neck injury and lacking a top 6 center.

Foerster - Cates - Brink as your 3rd line. Speed is the only issue with these three, but two top defensive forwards and a playmaker.

Laughton - Poehling - Hathaway would be one of the best forechecking lines in the NHL. This also makes Laughton expendable at the TDL b/c you could plug in any decent LW. The guy who'd be a perfect fit after the TDL if he takes a step up would be Avon and his speed. Or Desnoyers. Lycksell will get a look, his offensive skills would help but lack of speed would have him chasing.

 

[BiggE]

Looks like Kolosov might be coming to Philly after all. Guess he realized that beating out Ersson or Fedotenko isn’t quite like needing to beat out Hasek or Roy.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I firmly believe, especially as an 18 year old, you have to have hit a certain threshold in the prior season before you can even be entertained as an NHL player or else you are looking at the Sbisa's, the Twarynski's, and the Hodgson's of the world who had a good, literal, two weeks and made the NHL as a result. All three short on skill but popped for physical reasons.

As far as players making the NHL in their D+1 season, Luchanko's resume would have to be one of the shortest in quite some time. I mean you could even look at his former teammate Matt Poitras, who at least played three seasons in the OHL and played at a 100 point pace the prior year, made the NHL at 19 but probably shouldn't have stayed. The irony of it being that Luchanko probably doesn't get drafted where he does if he got sent back to Guelph and we aren't having this conversation.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I firmly believe, especially as an 18 year old, you have to have hit a certain threshold in the prior season before you can even be entertained as an NHL player or else you are looking at the Sbisa's, the Twarynski's, and the Hodgson's of the world who had a good, literal, two weeks and made the NHL as a result. All three short on skill but popped for physical reasons.

As far as players making the NHL in their D+1 season, Luchanko's resume would have to be one of the shortest in quite some time. I mean you could even look at his former teammate Matt Poitras, who at least played three seasons in the OHL and played at a 100 point pace the prior year, made the NHL at 19 but probably shouldn't have stayed. The irony of it being that Luchanko probably doesn't get drafted where he does if he got sent back to Guelph and we aren't having this conversation.

We and every other fanbase in every sport do this every year in various ways. A week or two doesn’t completely flip an opinion on a player if your process is sound. That can be preseason or a playoff series. The mechanisms are different, but the problem is consistent.

It’s also worth noting that for the people that seem to care quite a bit about the strength of Guelph, Magua has correctly pointed out that they weren’t terrible just not particularly good. But they’re also heavily invested into 07 and 08s. There’s reason to hope for a rising talent level this season.