2024-25 Roster…too soon?

[Hawkaholic]

I'm not talking about making the jump to the NHL, I said as being a legit top linemate for Bedard. It's basically one full year at a minimum before that pick might even play, and likely 2-3 more for them to develop into a legit top liner if we're lucky.

So Bedard will be 24/25. That's pretty much perfect alignment for trying to legitimately win.

Literally every single situation is different. Hawks signed Hossa to a 9.2% of the cap deal during UFA and won three cups. They signed Soupy to a deal worth 12% of the cap in 08. One worked amazing, one kinda worked. Minnesota used UFA and was a good team for a long time with Parise and Suter, just ran into the Hawks every year.

Hawks had an incredible foundation of legit players when they signed those guys. Minnesota was never a legit threat to anyone who had a chance to win the Cup.

 

[TLEH]

Hawks had an incredible foundation of legit players when they signed those guys.

I agree. I'm just advocating that UFA is still a viable way to add players and that just because some really awful deals are signed that day doesn't mean we should avoid it.

Not advocating that its going to turn around your roster, but that it should be used to supplement your team.

 

[GIADF]

Please show me what team signed big UFAs when they were crappy, and became a legit contender from doing so in a short period of time after? I can't think of any, but could be missing some.

Vegas and Pietrangelo.

nvm, read over when you said crappy. Bad example.

I agree. I'm just advocating that UFA is still a viable way to add players and that just because some really awful deals are signed that day doesn't mean we should avoid it.

Not advocating that its going to turn around your roster, but that it should be used to supplement your team.

Yeah, I wouldn't want them to build the team around UFA... but I think 1 big proven acquisition is something to consider if given the option, especially if it helps out your franchise guy.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Vegas and Pietrangelo.

nvm, read over when you said crappy. Bad example.

Yeah, and Vegas isn't a great example to use for anything really, since they got to build their team out of NHLers right from the start.

 

[GIADF]

Yeah, and Vegas isn't a great example to use for anything really, since they got to build their team out of NHLers right from the start.

Kind of proving the point that every successful team has their own unique recipe to get there.

A big UFA addition should be on the table.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I agree. I'm just advocating that UFA is still a viable way to add players and that just because some really awful deals are signed that day doesn't mean we should avoid it.

Not advocating that its going to turn around your roster, but that it should be used to supplement your team.

Yes, it should supplement your team when you figure out what your team is, IMO. We have no idea who anyone on this roster is yet. Bedard is more than likely a franchise guy, but is he a C or W? Is Vlasic a top pairing D, or just a really good 2nd pair shutdown guy ala Hammer? No one knows what anyone else is.

Kind of proving the point that every successful team has their own unique recipe to get there.

Not really. Most successful contenders started from nothing, sucked for a while, had high picks, and didn't dip into free agency until they were at least playoff regulars.

 

[statswatcher]

i don't have any compunction with acquiring good talent at good money by any means.

i also don't really feel the anxiety to get bedard more help now, though i can understand it. i think he's been fine, and will continue to get better. if things work out ideally, he becomes a center that can drive a top six line without needing 15 or 16 million dollars on his wings. then when you do get another star level offensive talent you can roll multiple high threat lines. you don't have to do that. there's nothing says running a super line of bedard marner rantanen wouldn't be at the very least an interesting proposition. just don't think it's make or break.

 

[TLEH]

Both the 2025 and 2026 UFA lists look like shit anyway. I doubt Marner or Rantanen get there anyway for 2025 and 2026 has no one.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Both the 2025 and 2026 UFA lists look like shit anyway. I doubt Marner or Rantanen get there anyway for 2025 and 2026 has no one.

^Yeah, and if Marner does make it, I don't think he'll be worth what some team will be willing to throw at him. He's been Matthews sidekick for years, bloating his stats. Great player, but not as good as his stats suggest.

 

[BobbyJet]

Lost in all this draft v FA thing is the fact you also gotta take chances on other teams prospects who they have soured on and guys in need of change of scenery

4 notable from Cup teams that fit this

Sharp
Versteeg
Ladd
Leddy

To this day its still baffling how Fletcher gave up so quickly on Leddy after drafting him. Though there were whispers he was sorta forced into it by ownership given the Leddy MN boy thing

Definitely, and TBH, I'm surprised that the GM isn't getting more flak from the crop he brought in, especially Brodie. You can't just pick any old vet and hope they have some life left in them. That is too much like Stan.

 

[GIADF]

I think Marner makes it if Toronto has another dreadful playoff run and the fans/media run him out of town.

I glanced at the Avs thread for a Mikko extension a while ago and the posts I skimmed were mostly talking about keeping him for a run this year more so him actually extending. Not that that means much, but they know more than I do that's for sure.

 

[Dead Meat]

Tkachuk would probably demand to be made captain if he came to Chicago. He did it with the Sens. Given the Hawks are likely to make Bedard captain at some point, I don't know how a Tkachuk trade would work.


"According to what Radio-Canada journalist Martin Leclerc reveals in the latest edition of the «Tellement hockey»podcast, it would seem that the explanation behind this nomination is quite different and that it would not go over very well with his teammates.

"I don't know if Claude Giroux will be able to help this, but it seems that there is a problem with the leadership of the Senators. Brady Tkachuk became captain because he had that clause in his contract and it doesn't seem to have gone over very well with his teammates." - Martin Leclerc, Via GoHabsGo.com""

Wow - writing that into a contract is insanity....

 

[u2wojo]

I have no problem with the Hawks pushing in capspace in over the next 2 Summers to come away with one of Marner, Rantanen, Kaprizov, or Eichel is any actually reach free agency and would come. To win Cups you need star players (typically 3 or more). We have (likely) one in Bedard and even he may end up being a winger if he can't figure out how to win more than 35% of his faceoffs in the next year or 2. While I hope a couple of Nazar, '25 1st, Lev, Korch get us to 3 star top line type players, that is far from certain.

12, 13, or even 14 million for a actual NHL proven star player in their 20's for 7 years is easily worked around. Prospects turn into suspects as much as they turn into star players and worst case is our hit rate on stars from our prospect pool is above average and we end up with 3 home grown star players to add to Bedard and whatever UFA we invest in and we have desireable pieces other teams will pay handsomely to acquire.

Way more realistic scenerio is we end up with one legit star forward (most likely is the '25 1st), 1 legit top pairing D (Lev or Korchinski), and hopefully several middle 6/middle pairing guys for cheaper home grown depth.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Marner could get 15 million on the open market. Remember, the Sharks were willing to give 13 million to Tavares 6 years ago. It’s just not worth it.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I don’t want the Hawks to be a bottom 5 team after this season but we are waiting on two young defenseman in Levshunov and Korchinski to pan out and reap the fruits of the tank. They historically take a long time so the reality of it may be we have no choice but to be bad for another 2-3 years.

I think you add big free agents when our prospects are up in the NHL and we have a better idea of their talent level.

 

[BobbyJet]

^Yeah, and if Marner does make it, I don't think he'll be worth what some team will be willing to throw at him. He's been Matthews sidekick for years, bloating his stats. Great player, but not as good as his stats suggest.

We'll always disagree on Marner - in fact some Leaf fans say the opposite of you, that Mathews numbers are higher playing so much with Mitch. I think it is a symbiotic relationship with the chemistry they have..... but I do agree about the price tag. It's liable to be outrageous if he and his agent get greedy.

 

[BHawk21]

Please show me what team signed big UFAs when they were crappy, and became a legit contender from doing so in a short period of time after? I can't think of any, but could be missing some.

Rangers. Panarin became available. They paid him because hes elite. Hes still the best player on the roster (Shesterkin?) and they are contenders again.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Rangers. Panarin became available. They paid him because hes elite. Hes still the best player on the roster (Shesterkin?) and they are contenders again.

Fair, so 1 out of 32 teams. Even so, they weren't nearly as bad as the Hawks. They had the best goalie in the league, legit top 6 players in Mika, Kreider, Strome (when he was good), Buchnevich.

We don't really have any top 6 players outside of Bedard and TT, and have no where near the best goalie in the league. And it's tough to say that even has worked for New York, since Panarin hasn't been their best player in the playoffs, and they haven't made it to the dance once.

 

[BHawk21]

Fair, so 1 out of 32 teams. But even then, they had the best goalie in the league, legit top 6 players in Mika, Kreider, Strome (when he was good), Buchnevich.

We don't really have any top 6 players outside of Bedard and TT, and have no where near the best goalie in the league. And it's tough to say that even has worked for New York, since Panarin hasn't been their best player in the playoffs, and they haven't made it to the dance once.

Theres only been 4 elite free agents in the last 10 years. Panarin Gaudreau Pietrangelo Tavares.

Panarin and Gaudreau are the two that went to bad teams. It worked for the Rangers. It wasnt really working for CBJ but we wont know.

Yes we need elite forward talent.

 

[BHawk21]

Bertuzzi-Bedard-Marner
Teravainen-Nazar
Foligno-Dickinson-Kurashev
Slaggert-Reichel-Mikhevev
Anderson

Korchinski-Jones
Vlasic-Levshunov
Kaiser-Murphy
Brodie/Allen

Mrazek
Brossoit

One more top 6 guy and your competing for the playoffs. With 5 more 1st rounders on the way.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Panarin (Happy Birthday) has aged really well up to this point.

4th in points since signing the contract. That's a beaut. You'll take that for 4th highest caphit. Tavares on other hand, not so much.

Just a note - Tavares, Gaudreau, Panarin were all players that wanted to get the heck out of their current place. Marner WANTS to stay, Rantanen presumably wants to stay as well. Odds are they will stay. Colorado should make whatever they need work to keep Rantanen around. If Marner doesn't, it's kind of one of those "if they don't want him, why do we?" scenarios. Pietrangelo, the Blues goofed that one up, Doug Armstrong wouldn't give him a NMC when every player of his caliber was getting NMC. It was a weird choice to let him walk. Massive blunder. Feels like Pietrangelo took a bit of a "no tax" discount as well. His cap hit isn't even that high. And even still, one of their "misfits" in Shea Theodore's beautiful 8-year contract was the better deal. Martinez rounded out their Top-3 from the year they won the Cup, who they brought in for a couple 2nds and then extended on a middle term/middle value kind of contract.

Basically people should be more realistic about what "big fish" Free Agents will even be out there even as we pontificate about this guy or that guy. If there is a no doubt, no brainer, open the checkbook kinda "big fish" player, they'll likely have their pick of the litter and the Hawks would have to pile up more cash on top of it to make them a more desirable place, and then also hope they age well like a Panarin or a Pietrangelo.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Theres only been 4 elite free agents in the last 10 years. Panarin Gaudreau Pietrangelo Tavares.

I'm arguing against myself a bit here, but Sergei Bobrovsky should also be mentioned. Huge money deal a couple years removed from Vezina and being top 5 in Goalie Wins each of the three prior years.

 

[WarLax]

The Rangers were also in the very fortuitous position to have one Adam Fox force his way to New York the same year Panarin signed there.

So, their ascension is just as easily attributable to attaining a Norris trophy winning defenseman, more so even, than it is to signing a really good winger.

Shesterkin also debuted in the following season too, actually. So really, they gained a Norris trophy winning defenseman, a Vezina winning goalie, and a really good winger within the same calendar year.

I think it's safe to say the winger gets the least credit for their ascension to a good team.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Rangers were also in the very fortuitous position to have one Adam Fox force his way to New York the same year Panarin signed there.

So, their ascension is just as easily attributable to attaining a Norris trophy winning defenseman, more so even, than it is to signing a really good winger.

Shesterkin also debuted in the following season too, actually. So really, they gained a Norris trophy winning defenseman, a Vezina winning goalie, and a really good winger within the same calendar year.

I think it's safe to say the winger gets the least credit for their ascension to a good team.

Least credit is a bit harsh, as acquiring a top-5 level scorer is massively important, but yes, mechanics Fox forcing his way there aside (by two years post-draft, it was known that both Fox wanted to go to the Rangers and that he was really really good beyond his draft capital), it's basically like having a Norris DMan and a Vezina Goalie emerge out of your 3rd/4th round picks. That's a bit Tampa-ish with Kucherov/Point. Zibanejad and Kreider both glowing up didn't hurt either.

 

[SimpleJack]

Wasn't there some rumor recently about Kaprizov eventually wanting a move to CHI? Idc if its complete BS, I'm brainstorming and coming up with best case scenarios such as us landing the 2025 #1OA and then also acquiring Kaprizov when he hits FA in 2026 i believe. Wait another year for added growth/development and imagine this lineup to start the 2026/27 season :

Kaprizov-Bedard-Nazar
Reichel-Hagens-Teravainen
Moore-Boisvert-Kurashev
Foligno-Dickinson-vet/prospect
(Too many prospects to count/list/think of)

Vlasic-Jones
Korchinski-Levshunov
vet-Rinzel
(EDM, Kaiser, Allan)

Commesso
vet/prospect/whoever