Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

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That's been my thinking too... if his ask is really that high, then what he really wants is to go to free agency. The only difference between him and Soto is that Soto said all along he wanted to reach free agency and Vlad said he wanted to stay.

I don't doubt he wants to be a Jay for life, but it seems like that's second to getting the biggest contract he can get. Maybe if we're lucky the Jays will be the team he comes back to and allows to match any deal he gets instead of the other way around.
If they had engaged in extension talks before Soto, and offered him the same amount they were offering him now, he likely signs because a) you don’t let Soto set the market first and b) you don’t reveal that you have 700M to spend.

This front office is just exceptionally bad at timing and prioritization.

It’s two of their many, many, many weaknesses.
 
Guerrero's 2022 GG season, he was 6th in baseball for 1B Rdrs (4 NL guys and Santana who only played 79 games). His 3 Rdrs would have tied for 1st in 2023 for the AL but would have been 3rd in 2024.

The leader in 2022 had 17, the leader in 2023 had 11, and 13 in 2024. Walker was tied for 10th overall.

The takeaway from this is that Gold Gloves at any position are not meaningless, but there is more information required (Vlad was the 134th best fielder overall).
 
I forgot about Barger. Would be nice if he panned out. Tons of power. About Wagner, though, do we really want a young player like that to DH all the time? I think he needs a defensive position. We'll see.
Personally, I wouldn't read too much into where guys are taking reps at spring training. I remember last year Kirk was taking reps at 1B to start spring, and some Jays fans got tricked into thinking that's how the Jays were going to get Kirk+Jano's bats together in the lineup more (under the hopeful assumption that maybe Kirk would have bounced back with his bat).

In terms of Wagner, I kind of see him similarly to another Horwitz-type. He isn't enough of a high-end prospect (like Orelvis) to be concerned about him needing a defensive position to get playing time. I think Wagner could be a nice strong side platoon bat though.
 
Vegas seems pretty high on Wagner, as they currently have him ranked #6 in Rookie of the year odds.

Screenshot (1671).png
 
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Vegas seems pretty high on Wagner, as they currently have him ranked #6 in Rookie of the year odds.

View attachment 979445
FWIW, ZIPS has a bunch of those guys above Dominguez.

Anthony has higher potential (but less likely to get the playing time). Same with Campbell.

Jacob Wilson should start at SS for Oakland and look s likely to be the best AL rookie.

Wagner gets hurt by being projected as a DH, but if he were to play a bunch of games in the field (like ZIPS has him), he could easily jump above Dominguez as well.
 
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Some quick thoughts:

Hopefully, Santander is playing RF with Springer in LF. If the Jays need a CF for the beginning of the year, Loperfido is a strong candidate to be the starter (Lukes is a strong candidate to be 4th outfielder, with Loperfido either starting with Varsho on IL or getting sent down if Varsho is good to go to get reps in). Straw and Lukes should be battling each other (Straw brings speed and defense where Lukes's bat profile is interesting).

Across the infield, Clement got robbed out of a gold glove and his crazy low K rate suggests that his offense could theoretically improve. The biggest thing is that his BB rate needs to improve (he's a 5-8% guy in the minors with sub-2.5 in the majors). The difference between the two is the difference between him being average (with no other improvements) and slightly below average.

Bichette is the shortstop and assuming he's back to 100%, he should be solid.

Gimenez is the best defensive 2B the Jays have had since Semien at least (possibly above that level). Offensively, he struggled to barrel the ball last year, and hit too many fly balls the year before.

Vlad is Vlad at 1st.

Kirk gets a lot of criticism but he's still seen as one of the better catchers in baseball. He got better when he played more last year. His biggest problem was hitting less balls hard (it's a slight difference, but it is likely from pulling less pitches, since that is the easiest way to hit the ball hard without changing your swing).

Schneider is one of the backups. One of the takeaways of the last few years has been a noticeable move to "use all fields". This completely undermines the approach that makes some players successful. 50 to 46 is only slight but when all 4% goes the other way, it means that most of those extra balls are going to be outs. This has been a consistent problem within the organization (he actually has good numbers on balls to right, but the shift means more fly balls in the big part of the park).

Heineman is the likely backup although all of the options figure to be about the same. They are all glove first catchers.

Wagner is likely on the team and should be a contributor, but where he plays is yet to be determined. He is more of a bat-first utility guy (like Biggio before the Ks caught up which is not a problem that Wagner has ever had).

After that, Barger, Jimenez and Orelvis could be competing for one spot. Orelvis is a candidate to take 3B away from Clement if he makes it (given his power profile), whereas Barger might be a strong-side platoon option who can play 3B/OF and Jimenez runs a Kirk-like offensive profile with speed and fielding.

The rotation is Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt/Scherzer/Francis in some order.

The bullpen has set pieces in:
Rodriguez / Sandlin / Swanson / Garcia / Green / Hoffman

The last two spots are battles with the lefty spot between:

Little (120 Stuff+ sinker, 94 cutter, 120 knuckle-curve) who throws 94.5
Walker (99 fastball, 84 sinker, 106 curveball) throwing 94.2
Garrett (100 fastball, 105 sinker, 110 slider) throwing 95.6
Lovelady (96 fastball, 111 sinker, 104 slider) throwing 92.4
Lucas (100 fastball, 95 sinker, 102 cutter, 120 slider, 92 change-up) throwing 94.2

All stuff+ values and velocity are from last year and all velocities are 4 seamers except Little who doesn't throw 4 seamers (Lucas has a sizeable velocity difference between fastball and sinker and everyone else throws them at similar velocity)

The other spot could be someone above or:
Nance (84 fastball, 104 sinker, 105 slider, 101 curveball) throwing 95.3
Pop (106 sinker, 92 cutter, 120 slider) throwing 96.2
Burr (88 fastball, 88 slider) throwing 94.1
Roberston (94 fastball, 101 cutter, 127 slider, 92 changeup) throwing 94.3
Barnes (103 fastball, 94 cutter, 97 slider) throwing 95.4

The significance of Stuff+ is that high quality pitches are generally very good and lower scoring ones generally aren't. A slight change in approach could make a massive difference (a guy like Pop abandoning a 92 cutter for two very good pitches could make all the difference in his performance. Robertson's slider was elite last year, with Little having the 11th best sinker and 9th best knucklecurve (small sample size).
 
Some quick thoughts:

Hopefully, Santander is playing RF with Springer in LF. If the Jays need a CF for the beginning of the year, Loperfido is a strong candidate to be the starter (Lukes is a strong candidate to be 4th outfielder, with Loperfido either starting with Varsho on IL or getting sent down if Varsho is good to go to get reps in). Straw and Lukes should be battling each other (Straw brings speed and defense where Lukes's bat profile is interesting).

Across the infield, Clement got robbed out of a gold glove and his crazy low K rate suggests that his offense could theoretically improve. The biggest thing is that his BB rate needs to improve (he's a 5-8% guy in the minors with sub-2.5 in the majors). The difference between the two is the difference between him being average (with no other improvements) and slightly below average.

Bichette is the shortstop and assuming he's back to 100%, he should be solid.

Gimenez is the best defensive 2B the Jays have had since Semien at least (possibly above that level). Offensively, he struggled to barrel the ball last year, and hit too many fly balls the year before.

Vlad is Vlad at 1st.

Kirk gets a lot of criticism but he's still seen as one of the better catchers in baseball. He got better when he played more last year. His biggest problem was hitting less balls hard (it's a slight difference, but it is likely from pulling less pitches, since that is the easiest way to hit the ball hard without changing your swing).

Schneider is one of the backups. One of the takeaways of the last few years has been a noticeable move to "use all fields". This completely undermines the approach that makes some players successful. 50 to 46 is only slight but when all 4% goes the other way, it means that most of those extra balls are going to be outs. This has been a consistent problem within the organization (he actually has good numbers on balls to right, but the shift means more fly balls in the big part of the park).

Heineman is the likely backup although all of the options figure to be about the same. They are all glove first catchers.

Wagner is likely on the team and should be a contributor, but where he plays is yet to be determined. He is more of a bat-first utility guy (like Biggio before the Ks caught up which is not a problem that Wagner has ever had).

After that, Barger, Jimenez and Orelvis could be competing for one spot. Orelvis is a candidate to take 3B away from Clement if he makes it (given his power profile), whereas Barger might be a strong-side platoon option who can play 3B/OF and Jimenez runs a Kirk-like offensive profile with speed and fielding.

The rotation is Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt/Scherzer/Francis in some order.

The bullpen has set pieces in:
Rodriguez / Sandlin / Swanson / Garcia / Green / Hoffman

The last two spots are battles with the lefty spot between:

Little (120 Stuff+ sinker, 94 cutter, 120 knuckle-curve) who throws 94.5
Walker (99 fastball, 84 sinker, 106 curveball) throwing 94.2
Garrett (100 fastball, 105 sinker, 110 slider) throwing 95.6
Lovelady (96 fastball, 111 sinker, 104 slider) throwing 92.4
Lucas (100 fastball, 95 sinker, 102 cutter, 120 slider, 92 change-up) throwing 94.2

All stuff+ values and velocity are from last year and all velocities are 4 seamers except Little who doesn't throw 4 seamers (Lucas has a sizeable velocity difference between fastball and sinker and everyone else throws them at similar velocity)

The other spot could be someone above or:
Nance (84 fastball, 104 sinker, 105 slider, 101 curveball) throwing 95.3
Pop (106 sinker, 92 cutter, 120 slider) throwing 96.2
Burr (88 fastball, 88 slider) throwing 94.1
Roberston (94 fastball, 101 cutter, 127 slider, 92 changeup) throwing 94.3
Barnes (103 fastball, 94 cutter, 97 slider) throwing 95.4

The significance of Stuff+ is that high quality pitches are generally very good and lower scoring ones generally aren't. A slight change in approach could make a massive difference (a guy like Pop abandoning a 92 cutter for two very good pitches could make all the difference in his performance. Robertson's slider was elite last year, with Little having the 11th best sinker and 9th best knucklecurve (small sample size).

I disagree with you on Straw. You didn't even mention Clase who should be ahead of him. Straw should be in the minor leagues.
 
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Some quick thoughts:

Hopefully, Santander is playing RF with Springer in LF. If the Jays need a CF for the beginning of the year, Loperfido is a strong candidate to be the starter (Lukes is a strong candidate to be 4th outfielder, with Loperfido either starting with Varsho on IL or getting sent down if Varsho is good to go to get reps in). Straw and Lukes should be battling each other (Straw brings speed and defense where Lukes's bat profile is interesting).

Across the infield, Clement got robbed out of a gold glove and his crazy low K rate suggests that his offense could theoretically improve. The biggest thing is that his BB rate needs to improve (he's a 5-8% guy in the minors with sub-2.5 in the majors). The difference between the two is the difference between him being average (with no other improvements) and slightly below average.

Bichette is the shortstop and assuming he's back to 100%, he should be solid.

Gimenez is the best defensive 2B the Jays have had since Semien at least (possibly above that level). Offensively, he struggled to barrel the ball last year, and hit too many fly balls the year before.

Vlad is Vlad at 1st.

Kirk gets a lot of criticism but he's still seen as one of the better catchers in baseball. He got better when he played more last year. His biggest problem was hitting less balls hard (it's a slight difference, but it is likely from pulling less pitches, since that is the easiest way to hit the ball hard without changing your swing).

Schneider is one of the backups. One of the takeaways of the last few years has been a noticeable move to "use all fields". This completely undermines the approach that makes some players successful. 50 to 46 is only slight but when all 4% goes the other way, it means that most of those extra balls are going to be outs. This has been a consistent problem within the organization (he actually has good numbers on balls to right, but the shift means more fly balls in the big part of the park).

Heineman is the likely backup although all of the options figure to be about the same. They are all glove first catchers.

Wagner is likely on the team and should be a contributor, but where he plays is yet to be determined. He is more of a bat-first utility guy (like Biggio before the Ks caught up which is not a problem that Wagner has ever had).

After that, Barger, Jimenez and Orelvis could be competing for one spot. Orelvis is a candidate to take 3B away from Clement if he makes it (given his power profile), whereas Barger might be a strong-side platoon option who can play 3B/OF and Jimenez runs a Kirk-like offensive profile with speed and fielding.

The rotation is Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt/Scherzer/Francis in some order.

The bullpen has set pieces in:
Rodriguez / Sandlin / Swanson / Garcia / Green / Hoffman

The last two spots are battles with the lefty spot between:

Little (120 Stuff+ sinker, 94 cutter, 120 knuckle-curve) who throws 94.5
Walker (99 fastball, 84 sinker, 106 curveball) throwing 94.2
Garrett (100 fastball, 105 sinker, 110 slider) throwing 95.6
Lovelady (96 fastball, 111 sinker, 104 slider) throwing 92.4
Lucas (100 fastball, 95 sinker, 102 cutter, 120 slider, 92 change-up) throwing 94.2

All stuff+ values and velocity are from last year and all velocities are 4 seamers except Little who doesn't throw 4 seamers (Lucas has a sizeable velocity difference between fastball and sinker and everyone else throws them at similar velocity)

The other spot could be someone above or:
Nance (84 fastball, 104 sinker, 105 slider, 101 curveball) throwing 95.3
Pop (106 sinker, 92 cutter, 120 slider) throwing 96.2
Burr (88 fastball, 88 slider) throwing 94.1
Roberston (94 fastball, 101 cutter, 127 slider, 92 changeup) throwing 94.3
Barnes (103 fastball, 94 cutter, 97 slider) throwing 95.4

The significance of Stuff+ is that high quality pitches are generally very good and lower scoring ones generally aren't. A slight change in approach could make a massive difference (a guy like Pop abandoning a 92 cutter for two very good pitches could make all the difference in his performance. Robertson's slider was elite last year, with Little having the 11th best sinker and 9th best knucklecurve (small sample size).

Playoff team? Better be or else Shatkins failed epically
 
I disagree with you on Straw. You didn't even mention Clase who should be ahead of him. Straw should be in the minor leagues.
Clase is 22. I see him in the same boat as Loperfido.

Both guys are better than Straw and Lukes, but neither one should be 4th outfielder (I see Loperfido as being closer to competing for the spot starts). Straw and Lukes are fine as a 4th outfielder because they can sit most of the time (Straw would be a Zimmer, whereas Lukes brings a more balanced approach)
 
Playoff team? Better be or else Shatkins failed epically
Fangraphs has the Jays 8th in the AL (but close to the top) where the depth would make a huge impact on where teams end up.

Depth Charts have the Jays as the 7th best team (again, the difference is projected depth and DC assumes Varsho starting on the IL to begin the year as well).

Playoff odds have the Jays at 38.2% chance to make the playoffs, but it should be noted that most of the projections have Seattle's rotation having less than 6 starts made by non top-5 starters.
 
Vlady or no Vlady I find it very difficult to believe Management will be back next year. I only think they around is to see the complete finish of the Stadium and to tidy up all the business that it took.
 
Vegas seems pretty high on Wagner, as they currently have him ranked #6 in Rookie of the year odds.

View attachment 979445

Or Vegas is very down on the rest of the team, more than high on Wagner?

In seriousness, dont know much about Wagner but he gets to replace Vlad, Bo, and Biggio as our 2nd generation MLB player that they seem to love to have. Overall it seems to usually translate to a quality player.
 
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I am more interested in getting him signed. SS is a tough position and to especially to put up production offensively. They don’t grow in trees.
The sad truth is that if Toronto didn't want to sign Bo and Vlad, they could have moved Bo last offseason for a king's ransom and Vlad now for a huge haul and basically rebuilt the whole team.
 
Wow, a lot of fellow Jays fans honestly have no spine. It's actually sickening to see Jays fans turning on Vlad and Shatkins now winning the PR battle, just because Vlad liked a photoshop of him in a Yankees uniform on Instagram.

Meanwhile, when he did the same thing with a Red Sox big 3 photoshop of Devers/Soto/Vlad (before Soto signed), no one really cared, presumably because a lot of Jays fans just assumed in blind faith that Shatkins would get it done by Vlad's deadline.

Now that Jays fans are actually staring down the barrel of Vlad leaving in FA as a realistic possibility, now all of a sudden they hate the photoshops. So disingenuous.
 
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Vlad Jr. has 'REAL CHANCE' to be traded + Rafael Devers won't cede 3B 👀 - Jeff Passan | SportsCenter

ESPN MLB

February 18, 2025

Jeff Passan joins SportsCenter to give an update on Vladimir Guerrero Jr.'s contract situation and his likelihood of being traded, before reporting on the drama within the Red Sox organization amid Rafael Devers' refusal to cede his position at third base.
______________________

Transcript

The Blue Jays ran out of time on Monday to make a deal that is with their four time all star, Vlad Guerrero Jr., who is said to be a free agent after this season. Guerrero Jr. and the Blue Jays failed to reach a long-term contract extension agreement after the first baseman set a self-imposed deadline. Senior baseball insider Jeff Passan is live with us right now from Blue Jays camp.

And Jeff, with no long-term deal in place right now, where did the Blue Jays and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. go from here?

A lot of it, Amina, depends on just how much the organization is going to respect Vladimir Guerrero Jr's wishes not to negotiate during the season, but this opens up a world of possibilities for the Blue Jays going forward.


Because if he really is going to go to free agency like he says, unless the Blue Jays are toward the top of the American League East, and it is the toughest division in baseball, one in which they finish last place last season. There's a real possibility that he is going to be traded before the end of the year.

Now I asked Ross Atkins, their general manager, about the possibility of a trade before the season even begins, and he dismissed that.

But we're going to have our eyes on that July trade deadline because unless the Blue Jays take a true leap forward this year, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. could be on the move because if they do not re-sign him after the season and they are over the luxury tax threshold, all they get is a 4th round compensation pick.


Yeah. I'm sure everyone's eyes will be on that situation.
 

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