Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

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Well, if multiple people are telling you this, then a lightbulb should go off in your head. Lol.

Yes, the off-season isn’t complete. You’re right. But the mountain that Shatkins has to climb to get any sort of trust and respectability back with the fans is monumental. It’s like someone else already said on here. IMO, to get that respectability back, they need to sign at least 2 of Santander/Bregman/Alonso. But, most likely all 3 and maybe another SP (preferably Flaherty) and another high leverage reliever.
Two people having the same thought doesn’t mean all that much to me, really. Following this team, posting on these boards, just hobbies. Nothing I’m going to get all lathered up about. I prefer lemonade to lemons as a rule, too.

I’ve never said I’m thrilled all the time with everything the FO does. One thing I do believe is that we fans have next to no real information, media not that much more.

We don’t know what options they had available, we don’t actually know how the negotiations went. We do know they’re willing to take on around 10 mil over two years for a 4th/5th OF to get the extra pool money. My first thought was Straws a good guy to have around if you have an all bat dude in the OF and as a placeholder. So, I think it’s as related to Santander as Sasaki. And maybe the pool money was acquired for more than one purpose? Best foot forward on Sasaki, but failing that getting more talent out of the IFA pool which the system needs anyway.

And if they’re gonna add guys who got qualified, then maybe the extra funds are to add IFA guys who they like as much as a second or third rounder in advance that they’re not gonna be drafting because of sacrificing their picks.
 
Common sense would have been not to resign KK last year and run with him and Varsho.
What did this management group do?

So am I the one with hate blinders or do you have rose coloured glasses.
Bottom 10 finish last year, bottom 10 prospect pool, top 10 payroll, and zero playoff victories since 2016. Yeah these guy totally deserve the benefit of the doubt
This is what I don’t understand, you think because Atkins made bad moves last year that EVERYTHING he does is bad? Come on man, the world doesn’t work that way.

He’s made plenty of mistakes and deserves criticism for them. INCLUDING the Straw deal. It obviously backfired on him the minute Sasaki chose the Dodgers. But to pretend he must have wanted the player, when it was an obvious contract dump in exchange for bonus pool money, is just hate mongering.

Atkins should’ve been fired, I don’t think many would argue that, but it’s not happening at this point in the offseason so let’s try to be rational in our assessment of each move. Not everything they do is dumb because our feelings are hurt right now.
 
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This is the move I’ve expected all offseason, but how many times can talks heat up without a deal being signed? It’s getting somewhat comical. I’d like to know if Hector actually knows anything that’s happening or if he’s guessing based on the BNS/Shi report last night.

I feel I shouldn’t post him because he has a lot more wrong than he does get right.
 
This is what I don’t understand, you think because Atkins made bad moves last year that EVERYTHING he does is bad? Come on man, the world doesn’t work that way.

He’s made plenty of mistakes and deserves criticism for them. INCLUDING the Straw deal. It obviously backfired on him the minute Sasaki chose the Dodgers. But to pretend he must have wanted the player, when it was an obvious contract dump in exchange for bonus pool money, is just hate mongering.

Atkins should’ve been fired, I don’t think many would argue that, but it’s not happening at this point in the offseason so let’s try to be rational in our assessment of each move. Not everything they do is dumb because our feelings are hurt right now.
It all he wanted was the bonus pool money why didn’t he wait till Sasaki committed to signing?
You haven’t answered that question yet.

Do I think they see Straw as the best option as a starter this season? No but do I think they like the player and see him as a great fall back option? Absolutely.
He is exactly the kind of player they love. Varsho, KK, Gimenez, Chapman…. They love D first players with suspect hitting abilities.
When everyone said they over committed to run prevention over hitting ability they doubled down by trading Horwitz for Gimenez.
 
I feel I shouldn’t post him because he has a lot more wrong than he does get right.
It still breaks up all the Shaner type fire Shatkins posts…it’s all we’ve got now man lol.

For the record I want Santander. He doesn’t turn everything around, but he’s what we need. He’s a switch hitter with power to provide Vladdy with some protection in the lineup. Add another bat and a starter and we have a chance to compete this year.
 
That's assuming that he makes it onto the 40 man. He might not.

Clase and Loperfido might be better options for that spot anyway.
My thinking is they want to get those guys more AAA time. They’ve all got options, pretty good upside at a lot of positions (I see Buffalo starting with 6 position players who could be above average big leaguers). They could all be ready to go by the tail end of next year.
 
It all he wanted was the bonus pool money why didn’t he wait till Sasaki committed to signing?
You haven’t answered that question yet.

Do I think they see Straw as the best option as a starter this season? No but do I think they like the player and see him as a great fall back option? Absolutely.
He is exactly the kind of player they love. Varsho, KK, Gimenez, Chapman…. They love D first players with suspect hitting abilities.
When everyone said they over committed to run prevention over hitting ability they doubled down by trading Horwitz for Gimenez.
I actually said he deserves criticism for that. The Straw deal is a big fail. Period. That doesn’t mean they wanted the player. This same player was DFA’d this season, and they could have had him at any point they wanted.

I also said I’d have fired Atkins after the season if it were up to me. But not everything is black and white, just because Atkins has made mistakes doesn’t make him a complete moron. He’s swinging big, perhaps he’s feeling the heat and taking risks/big swings he shouldn’t. But I guarantee he’d be getting crucified by this same fan base if he wasn’t taking big swings. In fact his patience and safe approach is one of my biggest issues with him. He sticks to his valuations and misses out far too often. I wish they’d just identify their guy and go hard. Maybe they did that with Ohtani, Soto, and Sasaki. It just feels like the fanbase is frustrated and maybe even embarrassed and your take on him “wanting Straw” is just irrational.
 
The Straw move implies the Jays were given no indication that Sasaki would sign with them and they just took that risk to make it more enticing for him.

The agent and the player screwed the Blue Jays to an extent by not having any transparency here.
 
I actually said he deserves criticism for that. The Straw deal is a big fail. Period. That doesn’t mean they wanted the player. This same player was DFA’d this season, and they could have had him at any point they wanted.

I also said I’d have fired Atkins after the season if it were up to me. But not everything is black and white, just because Atkins has made mistakes doesn’t make him a complete moron. He’s swinging big, perhaps he’s feeling the heat and taking risks/big swings he shouldn’t. But I guarantee he’d be getting crucified by this same fan base if he wasn’t taking big swings. In fact his patience and safe approach is one of my biggest issues with him. He sticks to his valuations and misses out far too often. I wish they’d just identify their guy and go hard. Maybe they did that with Ohtani, Soto, and Sasaki. It just feels like the fanbase is frustrated and maybe even embarrassed and your take on him “wanting Straw” is just irrational.
They had KK and Varsho they didn’t need a 3rd guy when Straw was DFAd. Also they got Cleveland to eat some salary so it’s cheaper now then when he was DFAd.

There was no reason to make the trade before Sasaki committed. If you and I know that a professional GM paid millions of dollars would know he could do that. He made the trade early cause he added a player he likes even as depth in addition to adding bonus pool money.

The Straw move implies the Jays were given no indication that Sasaki would sign with them and they just took that risk to make it more enticing for him.

The agent and the player screwed the Blue Jays to an extent by not having any transparency here.
How does that make it more enticing to Sasaki?
Both sides knew how much bonus pool money the Jays had and what they could add. It wasn’t a secret or a surprise that they were able to add. There was absolutely no reason or benefit to making the trade before Sasaki agreed to sign.
 
They had KK and Varsho they didn’t need a 3rd guy when Straw was DFAd. Also they got Cleveland to eat some salary so it’s cheaper now then when he was DFAd.

There was no reason to make the trade before Sasaki committed. If you and I know that a professional GM paid millions of dollars would know he could do that. He made the trade early cause he added a player he likes even as depth in addition to adding bonus pool money.


How does that make it more enticing to Sasaki?
Both sides knew how much bonus pool money the Jays had and what they could add. It wasn’t a secret or a surprise that they were able to add. There was absolutely no reason or benefit to making the trade before Sasaki agreed to sign.
They acquired Miles along with 2 extra million in Internaltional bonus with the intention of giving that to him.

The fact that this didn’t move the needle for him makes me feel that he always wanted to go to them. And had he communicated that to the Jays earlier, maybe they would have refrained from this awful move.
 
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Atkins should have been fired years ago after the playoff collapses. He is an incompetent GM and has ruined this team. When Vladdy and Bo walk for nothing we will be in another rebuild and hopefully the Shatkins era comes to an end.
If Atkins allows Vladdy and Bo to walk for nothing there is no way he sticks around. Unless Ed Rogers is that totally stupid
 
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They acquired Miles along with 2 extra million in Internaltional bonus with the intention of giving that to him.

The fact that this didn’t move the needle for him makes me feel that he always wanted to go to them. And had he communicated that to the Jays earlier, maybe they would have refrained from this awful move.
Okay what was the incentive to making that trade before Sasaki committed?
It’s a simple question no one seems to be able to answer.
Sasaki’s agent would have known exactly how much bonus pool money the Jays had and what they could add. Adding it early didn’t change the math on any of it.
 
Santander alone is not going to be enough. They need to add 1 of Bregman/Alonso as well.

But, I guess baby steps are required with this FO.. Lol.

Don't we all keep saying this but yet here he is.
Well, if Bo and Vladdy both walk for nothing, then he may not have a choice if Shatkins gets the Ron Wilson Leafs treatment.
 
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The gambit largely drew criticism from rival executives after it backfired, as the Blue Jays not only didn’t get Sasaki but also ended up with a defence-only outfielder they don’t necessarily need, plus international bonus space without an immediate target. It’s a brilliant trade for the Guardians, who shed all but $3.75 million of a contract that went sour for them, and a bad look for the Blue Jays, especially since the Dodgers completed deals for extra international spending room only after Sasaki announced his decision.

Meanwhile the San Diego Padres, the other finalist, also had deals contingent on acquiring the electric 23-year-old right-hander, prompting some officials to wonder why the Blue Jays didn’t tie their deal with Cleveland to Sasaki’s fate, as well.

If you’re inclined to leave it there, fair enough — the discussion around this team can certainly feel exhausting. But while conversations with multiple industry sources largely excoriated the controversial trade, with one person seeing it as an act of desperation, some also viewed it as a calculated risk, one taken as a final push in pursuit of a talented and uniquely affordable player.

Regardless, such a move is unusual for this measured Blue Jays front office, which is why how it went down remained a compelling talking point more than 24 hours later.

The driving force behind it all was the competitive courtship of Sasaki, which led all three finalists to survey the market for additional international cap space this week. By and large, teams willing to trade their spending room wanted prospects, but the Blue Jays didn’t want to deplete their thin farm system.

The Guardians, however, already shed payroll once this off-season — in December the Blue Jays took the $97.5 million still owed to Andres Gimenez off their hands — and renewed discussions between the clubs led to an alternative — take most of Straw’s money for $2 million in cap space.

Outrighted off the Cleveland roster last March, Straw is guaranteed $14.75 million through 2026 and the Blue Jays would have to take $11 million (not $11.8 million as previously reported) of that sum. While they had other options for trades involving prospects that could have been contingent on a Sasaki yes, they believed that if they didn’t take the Guardians option, another team would, presumably the Dodgers or Padres.

Unwilling to potentially lose Sasaki over not pushing their bonus pool forward to make the best financial deal possible, the Blue Jays decided to lock in the cost of Straw as opposed to waiting and potentially losing prospects if they landed Sasaki. They hadn’t received any promises from Joel Wolfe, Sasaki’s agent, but they believed the extra bonus space raised their odds a little.

Whether it did is unclear, although rival executives pointed out that since Sasaki forfeited the chance at a nine-figure contract by posting before he turned 25, he was unlikely to be swayed by an extra million or two.
In the end, the Dodgers gave him a $6.5 million signing bonus, while the Blue Jays could have offered him up to $8,261,600.

Now, the Blue Jays will reallocate the extra bonus pool they acquired, but sources familiar with the international market say the best talent is already signed, making it difficult to find promising players. The Blue Jays, however, have had some success in identifying talent that’s slipped through the cracks, with prospects Kendry Rojas, Sem Robberse and Yosver Zulueta among those they’ve signed under similar circumstances.

More potentially damaging is the possibility that the hits of $5 million this year and $6 million next year for Straw impact their ability to sign players. Sources familiar with the Blue Jays’ thinking say they don’t foresee that as an issue and still expect them to add meaningfully to the roster.

On the hitting side, the Blue Jays have been engaged with Anthony Santander and Pete Alonso, and they’re talking with some high-end pitchers, too.
Of course, nothing’s done until it’s done, but the Blue Jays were described as active in free-agent talks on Friday night and Saturday.

How much more they can spend is dependent on the calibre of player they can add.

With Straw, the Blue Jays now have a projected payroll of $245 million, according to FanGraphs’ Roster Resource, pushing them over the first Competitive Balance Tax threshold of $241 million and within striking distance of the second, at $261 million. The belief is that they won’t necessarily have to trade away current players to add free agents and given the tier of free agents they’re pursuing, it’s clear they can exceed the second CBT threshold this year for the right players.

None of that changes the fact that the Blue Jays are worse off now than they were before they acquired Straw and lost out on Sasaki. And none of that will be enough to calm the frustration fans rightfully feel. But, for whatever it’s worth, there’s internal belief that the Blue Jays can recover from this setback by spending internationally and domestically.
This is actually insanity from BNS and Davidi. All of the parts I bolded are such blatant shilling for the front office that it's sickening. BNS and Davidi basically put together a complicated word salad in defense of their beloved front office that ultimately boils down to "Yes, this was admittedly a desperation trade, but we are going to put on rose coloured glasses and call it a calculated risk instead despite no evidence to back it up."

Then BNS and Davidi actually try to say with a straight face "It's okay everyone, the Myles Straw $7.75M luxury tax hit can be worth it. They can just sign the next Kendry Rojas/Sem Robberse/DFA candidate Yosver Zulueta!" Like come the **** on, this is just ridiculous. :laugh:

And now we're all just supposed to believe that the Jays will exceed the 2nd luxury tax threshold in their spending? Why should we believe that the Jays might spend up to $281M (3rd luxury tax threshold), when the franchise record CBT payroll is only $257M in comparison? I thought Shapiro said payroll won't change much from last year, but now apparently we are supposed to feel good that the same front office that burned $7.75M on a desperation trade might get to open 2025 with a $281M luxury tax payroll? :laugh:

The last line I bolded is just hilarious. "For whatever it’s worth, there’s internal belief that the Blue Jays can recover from this setback by spending internationally and domestically." :laugh:
Honestly, these weasel company men BNS and Davidi can just **** right off at this point.

Okay guys, Jays fans are just supposed to blindly believe that this front office can outspend their problems when again, they just burned $7.75M on a desperation trade. This team doesn't have an unlimited budget like the Dodgers and New York teams so burned money like that isn't meaningless (also random note, Romano's projected arb number was $7.75M lol).
 
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