TheMadHatTrick
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- Nov 2, 2008
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I have strong interest in Ana de Armas. I have just as much of a chance as Shatkins did with Soto. 
Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)
- Thread starter The Nemesis
- Start date
Hellcat
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- Jul 13, 2022
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Assuming Vladdy is at 1B it's not rocket surgery, we need production from RF, LF and 3B and DH. It might be easier to move Vlad to 3B and sign Alonso for 1B.
Not much production bats left TBH, some of them are past their due date.
Bregman
Alonso
Profar
Santandar
Martinez
Cloned
Begging for Bega
- Aug 25, 2003
- 81,850
- 72,126
They’ll be in the hunt for Alonso and Santander, get neither and sign Moancada instead.
BehindTheTimes
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- Jun 24, 2018
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Let’s agree to disagree. I think your take on this is largely out to lunch.
Canada4Gold
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- Dec 22, 2010
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Did you read the post? Because my point was all in there.
You said they needed 3, probably 4 additions. 7 of the positions are fine. Vladdy and Bo at the high end are good. Kirk, Varsho, Gimenez, Clement, and Springer/Wagner are fine for the bottom end of the lineup. They're all projected to be league average or better with the bat, and mostly very good with the glove. The Yankees Word Series roster was much worse than that from 6-9 last year. The issue is the middle. You go from Loperfido to a Santander and 1 of Springer/Wagner/Clement to 1 of Alonso/Bregman and that lineup is actually very good with just 2 additions. Not 3, and certainly not 4.
There are issues with the pen, there are issues with the middle of the order, there are potential issues with the rotation. You don't need to complain about bottom of the order issues that aren't there.
Kurtz
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- Jul 17, 2005
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Gonna disagree with you on a few things here.
"Bottom of the lineup" is 7-9. You listed 6 guys there. Assuming Bo-Vlad bat 1-2, you've just listed our 3-8 hitters at the moment.
I don't believe that those 6 are projected to be "league average or better with the bat". Maybe Kirk and Varsho can be close to average, but Gimenez being average would be a pleasant surprise, Clement is a 28-year old career .640 OPS hitter, Springer looks to be on a preciptious decline reminiscent of Vernon Wells, and Wagner has yet to do anything in the league. Counting on all 6 of them to be average is unrealistic - I'd be happy to get league average offense from 3 out of the 6 next year.
Yankees had 2 of the 3 best hitters in the Majors last year which masked their faults. Soto even complained about this. We don't have that.
If we add Santander + Pete then yes, I think we're ok offensively provided Bo bounces back and one or two others surprise. But at the moment, I see our lineup as 2 good hitters, 2-3 maybe average hitters and 4-5 guys who are likely to be below average hitters.
Yes I did read your post. And yes they do need at least 3 bats. And 7 of the positions are definitely not fine. Outside of Vladdy, Bo and to a certain degree Springer, everyone else right now is average at absolute best. Kirk, Varsho, Giminez while they're very good defensively, they can't hit the broad side of a barn most of the time. Clement, Loperfido and Wagner are still too young and too early to tell how good offensively they can be. But you can't trust them if you're in "win now" mode.
And I don't think you know what "The bottom of the order" means in baseball. Because their 7 to 9 right now is not good at all. Hell. It's like I said earlier. Other than Vladdy, Bo and to a certain degree Springer, the rest of the lineup is either absolutely horrendous at the plate or too raw and very touch and go at best.
Imagine thinking that the bottom of the order of this team is good? LOL
Canada4Gold
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- Dec 22, 2010
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6 guys but if you add 2 guys then only 5 of those are in the starting lineup(I wasn't sure if I wanted Springer or Wagner there though it's probably Springer as none of the others are outfielders). I'm assuming they're going to do some kind of stupid leadoff guy at 1 so was thinking Bo and Vladdy 2 and 3. If Santander and Bregman/Alonso are 4 and 5 then those 5 guys are your leadoff hitter and your 6-9. If we assume they're smarter than that then it's 5-9. A league average hitter at 5 isn't ideal but it's far from a problem.
I'm just using projection systems. Disagree with Steamer if you must, I think some of them are off too. But they're all projected with an above 100 wRC+
2025 Projections - Steamer | FanGraphs Baseball
Kirk - 120
Wagner - 118
Springer - 110
Gimenez - 103
Clement - 103
Varsho - 101
I think this lineup is pretty solid.
Bo
Vladdy
Alonso
Santander
Kirk
Varsho
Springer
Clement
Gimenez
I don't really think that's the direction they should be going, but that's a different discussion. 2 high end additions are enough for the lineup. Trying to upgrade Clement into a 5% better player, or Springer into a 10% better player is just a waste of money IMO.
They're not getting either Alonso or Santander. So it's a moot point. But hypothetically, if they do get those two guys. Yes, that offense does look a lot better and it will be easier to cheer for. But in my opinion it's not enough. I still think they need at least one more guy.6 guys but if you add 2 guys then only 5 of those are in the starting lineup(I wasn't sure if I wanted Springer or Wagner there though it's probably Springer as none of the others are outfielders). I'm assuming they're going to do some kind of stupid leadoff guy at 1 so was thinking Bo and Vladdy 2 and 3. If Santander and Bregman/Alonso are 4 and 5 then those 5 guys are your leadoff hitter and your 6-9. If we assume they're smarter than that then it's 5-9. A league average hitter at 5 isn't ideal but it's far from a problem.
I'm just using projection systems. Disagree with Steamer if you must, I think some of them are off too. But they're all projected with an above 100 wRC+
2025 Projections - Steamer | FanGraphs Baseball
www.fangraphs.com
Kirk - 120
Wagner - 118
Springer - 110
Gimenez - 103
Clement - 103
Varsho - 101
I think this lineup is pretty solid.
Bo
Vladdy
Alonso
Santander
Kirk
Varsho
Springer
Clement
Gimenez
I don't really think that's the direction they should be going, but that's a different discussion. 2 high end additions are enough for the lineup. Trying to upgrade Clement into a 5% better player, or Springer into a 10% better player is just a waste of money IMO.
Refusing a meeting makes no sense
At least check in and use them as leverage if your Santander, imo.
At least check in and use them as leverage if your Santander, imo.
Great post and shows what a lot of us have said during and even before the offseason started, Jays need two high end bats. Kind of looking like they will get none!6 guys but if you add 2 guys then only 5 of those are in the starting lineup(I wasn't sure if I wanted Springer or Wagner there though it's probably Springer as none of the others are outfielders). I'm assuming they're going to do some kind of stupid leadoff guy at 1 so was thinking Bo and Vladdy 2 and 3. If Santander and Bregman/Alonso are 4 and 5 then those 5 guys are your leadoff hitter and your 6-9. If we assume they're smarter than that then it's 5-9. A league average hitter at 5 isn't ideal but it's far from a problem.
I'm just using projection systems. Disagree with Steamer if you must, I think some of them are off too. But they're all projected with an above 100 wRC+
2025 Projections - Steamer | FanGraphs Baseball
Kirk - 120
Wagner - 118
Springer - 110
Gimenez - 103
Clement - 103
Varsho - 101
I think this lineup is pretty solid.
Bo
Vladdy
Alonso
Santander
Kirk
Varsho
Springer
Clement
Gimenez
I don't really think that's the direction they should be going, but that's a different discussion. 2 high end additions are enough for the lineup. Trying to upgrade Clement into a 5% better player, or Springer into a 10% better player is just a waste of money IMO.
Hellcat
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2022
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Kirk BRV is poor at 26 but he is not there for his bat, his value is behind the plate. Varsho BRV is poor at 34 but his value is not at the plate is in the field. Gimenez BRV is horrid at 8 his value is not at the plate but in the field. Clements value is in the field, he's not an everyday MLBer, at this point he is a utility player. Springers BRV was 27 which is piss poor. You need more production from the RF and 3B position than what Springer and Clement brings. I'm in agreement with you for the most part but I do think they need more production from the RF. LF, 2b and DH positions. I'm fine with the C, 2B, CF having poor BRV if they bring the Defence that they bring. I'm not confident that Bichette starts the season with the Jays. I think it will be a Gimenez and Wagner team up th emiddle.
Why? Refreshing to see a player say i dont want you to waste your time.
Ooh, a tweet by a guy with 2,200 followers (as a comparison, BNS has 65,000 followers and Arden Zwelding has 35.000 followers) that answers a question by an account with 800 followers. Do we really need to pretend it's significant?
That guy just posts a bunch of crap for clicks. He’s no more connected than any of us.
id argue they lost more credibility not being able to extend vlad and/or bo than not getting ohtani or soto. No free agent is going to sign here long term with zero assurance that the team can keep its stars and contend
TheMadHatTrick
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- Nov 2, 2008
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Gleyber Torres bets on himself with Detroit Tigers with $100M in mind
Detroit Tigers second baseman Gleyber Torres is eager to return to free agency in the 2025-26 offseason. He is seeking more than $100 million.
www.freep.com
"The numbers I had were not right for going into free agency, especially with my age," said Torres, who co-owns a hitting facility in Tampa with ex-Tiger Gio Urshela. "I was just telling my agents to look for a one-year deal."
So that's what the Octagon agents, led by Mijares, told teams at the general manager meetings in early November and winter meetings in early December. His agent requested only one-year contracts from the start of the offseason, so there weren't any multi-year offers on the table.
Many teams besides the Tigers were interested in Torres, including the Boston Red Sox, Cincinnati Reds, Cleveland Guardians, Los Angeles Angels, San Francisco Giants, Toronto Blue Jays and Washington Nationals. The Blue Jays initially showed strong interest, but the Tigers ultimately made him a priority.
"We think there's more in there on both sides of the ball," Harris said. "If you go back and look at his season, we saw him tap into a little bit more of his offensive upside in the second half and the postseason. We think there's more in there. Gleyber does, too. And then defensively, we also think there's more in there."
The Yankees never made an offer to reunite with Torres.
"I think they have all their priorities," Torres said, "and I'm not on the list."
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Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
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I find this one a bit hard to believe, tbh. Santander has been rumoured to want to cash in, with no preferred suitor (unlike Teo). Our money's as green as anyone's.
TheMadHatTrick
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- Nov 2, 2008
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Our money is actually purple, blue, red-orange, and green.
And brown. lolOur money is actually purple, blue, red-orange, and green.
Cloned
Begging for Bega
- Aug 25, 2003
- 81,850
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As bad as inactive Atkins is, I don’t wanna see what desperate Atkins would do.
This is what happens when you don’t fire a GM that should’ve been fired a long time ago.
This is what happens when you don’t fire a GM that should’ve been fired a long time ago.
the "league average" for hitting is dragged down by all the teams giving tryouts to rookies or letting terrible hitters continue to hit terrible because of contract reasons or whatever. I think league average hitting is actually pretty bad hitting.
Coming off a last-place finish, the Toronto Blue Jays appear to be at a crossroads
TORONTO - For a team hoping to rebound after a last-place finish in 2024, the Toronto Blue Jays have had a relatively quiet off-season.
TORONTO - For a team hoping to rebound after a last-place finish in 2024, the Toronto Blue Jays have had a relatively quiet off-season.
That will need to change in a significant way if Canada's lone big-league club is going to improve in 2025.
First baseman Vladimir Guerrero Jr., the face of the franchise, still remains without a long-term contract. Two-time all-star shortstop Bo Bichette is also unsigned beyond this year.
The lack of extension news raises questions about whether the team expects to be a consistent contender in future seasons or if a retooling or rebuilding process might be on the horizon.
Decisions need to be made soon. The competitive window for this roster - at least as currently constructed - will not be open for much longer.
The pressure is squarely on Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins to deliver after a 74-88 campaign that followed wild-card series appearances in three of four years.
Forced to pivot after missing out on superstar Juan Soto, Atkins shifted into trade mode earlier this month by acquiring second baseman Andres Gimenez and reliever Nick Sandlin in a deal with the Cleveland Guardians.
Gimenez, who's signed through 2029, was an all-star in 2022 and has won three straight Gold Glove Awards.
The move makes Toronto's strong defence even better and, given that Gimenez came up as a shortstop, offers some insurance if Bichette is traded or leaves in free agency next fall.
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