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Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

Hellcat

Hellcat

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Bjindaho said:
No, I am suggesting that every other team you listed employed an inferior player as their primary CF. Judge was the runaway MVP and best player in the AL.
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They employed inferior hitter's?

The lineup is a sum of its parts, lets say you accept that Varsho is a black hole inthe lineup but his defence so so elite, where he hurts you in the line up , his field far otweight's it. You keep Varsho at CF, how do you improve RF and LF production? Cause you cant have Varsho, Springer and Loperfido as our starting 3 and expect to compete for a championship.

Discoverer said:
Do you happen to know what any of those stats mean?
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Yep.

Kurtz said:
The average OPS for an MLB CF was .708 in 2024. Varsho was at .700.

We have lots of holes on our team, but CF is not one.
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Average OPS for an outfield was?
 

Bjindaho

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Hellcat said:
They employed inferior hitter's?

The lineup is a sum of its parts, lets say you accept that Varsho is a black hole inthe lineup but his defence so so elite, where he hurts you in the line up , his field far otweight's it. You keep Varsho at CF, how do you improve RF and LF production? Cause you cant have Varsho, Springer and Loperfido as our starting 3 and expect to compete for a championship.



Yep.



Average OPS for an outfield was?
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I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

In a perfect world, the outfield is something like bopper - Varsho - Springer so that it improves.
 
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Hellcat

Hellcat

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Bjindaho said:
Judge only started in CF because their best CF (Grisham) couldn't hit anything. Even a semi-competent hitting CF means that Judge and Soto are the corner OF.
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Sounds like the same problem the jays have a CF that couldn't hit for shit.

Bjindaho said:
I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

In a perfect world, the outfield is something like bopper - Varsho - Springer so that it improves.
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Springers best years are behind him, he is on the downhill slope of his career, he is no longer a top of the lineup player. So Bopper - Varsho- Bopper .. where are those boppers and how much do we spend on them?
 

Discoverer

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With a reminder that Varsho had a .700 OPS this year while being the best defensive OF in the game:

In Game 5 of the World Series, with their season on the line, the Yankees had Torres and his .708 OPS in the leadoff spot. Then they had a 6-9 of:

Rizzo at .636
Volpe at .657
Wells at .717
Verdugo at .647

So don't try to tell us how Varsho would be a 4th OF on a contender because he would have been the starting CF and likely hitting 6th or 7th in the lineup of the World Series runner up.

The Jays need better bats at other positions so they can move Varsho further down in the lineup. They don't need a new player at a position where they already have a very good one.
 
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MK78

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Woodman19 said:
Unless bonkers is $600 million for 2 years I don't see any way it's to his benefit to take that deal.
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Exactly, he can suffer a career ending injury at any time. He's at a prime age for a huge long term contract, and he'll get it. I don't see anything under 10 years, and it's likely to be much longer in order to lower the AAV, and front loaded so at the back end it doesnt hurt as much when he will not be nowhere near as productive.
 
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Discoverer

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MK78 said:
Exactly, he can suffer a career ending injury at any time. He's at a prime age for a huge long term contract, and he'll get it. I don't see anything under 10 years, and it's likely to be much longer in order to lower the AAV, and front loaded so at the back end it doesnt hurt as much when he will not be nowhere near as productive.
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If anything, it's likely to be back loaded.
 

Tony Romo

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Hellcat said:
Sounds like the same problem the jays have a CF that couldn't hit for shit.



Springers best years are behind him, he is on the downhill slope of his career, he is no longer a top of the lineup player. So Bopper - Varsho- Bopper .. where are those boppers and how much do we spend on them?
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.. do you know how much it would cost to upgrade from Varsho in CF? It’s much easier to get a corner OF that can mash.
 

MS

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canucksfan

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Varsho is a better player than Pillar was when he was with the Jays. Pillar was a fan favorite and Varsho doesn't get the appreciation he deserves. In some cases, he's called a garbage player or a fourth outfielder. Varsho gets treated unfairly because of the trade and bats too high in the lineup. As others have said, he should be batting around 7th like Pillar was.
 
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MK78

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canucksfan said:
Varsho is a better player than Pillar was when he was with the Jays. Pillar was a fan favorite and Varsho doesn't get the appreciation he deserves. In some cases, he's called a garbage player or a fourth outfielder. Varsho gets treated unfairly because of the trade and bats too high in the lineup. As others have said, he should be batting around 7th like Pillar was.
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From what I remember of Pillar, that he wasn't a great outfielder and he had to make up for it with those spectacular dives which he was very good at. A great outfielder can simply run and catch them most of the time without diving or jumping.

The wall climb was epic though.
 
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MS

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MK78 said:
From what I remember of Pillar, that he wasn't a great outfielder and he had to make up for it with those spectacular dives which he was very good at. A great outfielder can simply run and catch them most of the time without diving or jumping.

The wall climb was epic though.
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Pillar was worth 7.7 dWAR from 2015-2017. He was legitimately outstanding and would have won multiple Gold Gloves if he didn't have to go up against prime Kevin Kiermaier who is probably a top 5 defensive CF of all time.
 
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Discoverer

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MK78 said:
From what I remember of Pillar, that he wasn't a great outfielder and he had to make up for it with those spectacular dives which he was very good at. A great outfielder can simply run and catch them most of the time without diving or jumping.

The wall climb was epic though.
Click to expand...

Pillar was absolutely one of the best defensive OF in baseball for 2-3 years, but I don't think he was on Varsho's level. He was probably flashier for the reasons you pointed out, but Varsho just gets to EVERYTHING.
 
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Hellcat

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MS said:
f*** me, I can't believe people are still posting stuff like this in 2024.

Varsho is a starter for basically every team in baseball. It isn't even debatable. He's a league-average hitter and the best fielder in the game at a premium position.
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He is an average hitter but on the last page, two places away from the bottom of the league of qualified hitters on mlb.com for batting average... your definition of average and the dictionary's definition are clearly different. .214 BA is not "average". https://www.mlb.com/stats/batting-average?page=6
 
Hellcat

Hellcat

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Tony Romo said:
.. do you know how much it would cost to upgrade from Varsho in CF? It’s much easier to get a corner OF that can mash.
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I would agree if we can upgrade the hitting lineup by finding a RF and LF that can be productive at the plate, Varsho at CF would make sense, we burry him 8th or 9th in the lineup and let the other hitters take care of the production but as it stands right now we got Loperfido, Springer and Varsho in the OF, you cant have those 3 combined in the batting lineup and expect to make the playoffs.
 

Discoverer

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Hellcat said:
He is an average hitter but on the last page, two places away from the bottom of the league of qualified hitters on mlb.com for batting average... your definition of average and the dictionary's definition are clearly different. .214 BA is not "average". https://www.mlb.com/stats/batting-average?page=6
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Most people are looking at a lot more than just batting average. His actual results last year, all things considered, made him a perfectly average major league hitter.
 
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Amadeus

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Discoverer said:
Does Gomez have a history of being a mouthpiece for agents like Heyman and company do?
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He’s broken a lot of signings but this is just showcasing intent of the Jays front office. They’ve been in on a lot of big names recently, like Seager, Freeman, Ohtani, Borgarts etc but haven’t been able to get anyone.

Soto will likely be the same thing at the end and I won’t be overly upset about it because they need to be smarter and use the free agent pool to make their lineup more deeper.
 
Hellcat

Hellcat

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Discoverer said:
Most people are looking at a lot more than just batting average. His actual results last year, all things considered, made him a perfectly average major league hitter.
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.214 is not average in any league. Sorry, it never has been and never will be average.
 
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