2024-25 NTDP U17 Team Selection

[WarriorofTime]

Do you know him or his parents? It’s totally possible he was born on vacation or something

There are Canadians every year that cry about dual-citizens opting for the USNDTP. It's a time honored tradition.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Beuker straight up isn’t American either. The whole thing is a joke. Grow your own players.

These are humans not shrubs. Although if you are getting technical, I suppose their American mothers or fathers are the ones that "grew" them.

Develop your own Canadian National Development Team program if you don't want players opting this route. It's the single best junior team to play in for anybody that wants to go to the NHL and not be subject to signing away years of your life to play for the Sh*tawka Syrupfaces in some prairie town.

 

[BigHitter67]

10 January
8 February
8 March

= 26 first quarter of the year

3 April
1 May
4 June

= 8 second quarter of the year
= 34 first half of the year

2 July
1 August
5 September

= 8 third quarter of the year
= 42 first three quarters of the year

1 October
3 November
1 December

= 5 fourth quarter of the year
= 13 second half of the year

...if you want to have a kid go far in hockey, make sure they are born early in the calendar year, folks!

Actually by adulthood ( so when it really counts ..aka the NHL) that early birthdate no longer giving those Jan-March kids the advantage they enjoyed since strapping on skates at 3yo. Distribution across the age quarters in the NHL is ~29% /25/25/21 % so the Oct- Dec kids never quite catch up but 29% is far cry from ~ 42% of OHL draft picks born between Jan - March . I always tell parents of the 14 yo Jan superstars to make sure he stays in school ..cause ealry birthdate isn’t a skill

 

[WarriorofTime]

Actually by adulthood ( so when it really counts ..aka the NHL) that early birthdate no longer giving those Jan-March kids that advantage they entering they strapped on skates at 3yo. Distribution across the age quarters in the NHL is ~29% /25/25/21 % so the Oct- Dec kids never quite catch up but 29% is far cry from ~ 42% of OHL draft picks born between Jan - March . I always tell parents of the 14 yo Jan superstars to make sure he stays in school ..cause ealry birthdate isn’t a skill

Yeah, I specified "go far" not necessarily "go NHL" as it'll eventually noramlize itself out, because by the time the kids actually hit Junior years, it's basically a reset (as opposed to Minor Hockey which is a big feedback loop) and the early birth effect advantages are gone by then (as they're 16/17 by that point instead of like 7/8 when kids start playing hockey more seriously).

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

14 invites from MN is pretty impressive

 

[clevelandcane]

It's getting to be a bit much. This issue certainly doesn't impact my life whatsoever, but as a Canadian hockey fan, it is getting tiresome. Historically, we had (and will continue to have) some of our high end hockey players settle and have children in the USA (and thus represent the USA internationally), and we also had some kids that were born in Canada but moved abroad with their parents for work/etc. and played hockey in the USA (who now represent the USA internationally); now we have to deal with kids that are born, live their whole life in, and play their whole hockey career in Canada only to jump ship to the NTDP and represent the USA internationally.

It was already going to be hard to compete against a nation with 335 million people vs 40 million moving forward given the growing popularity of hockey in the USA; now we have to worry about whether some of our better homegrown players will choose to represent the USA at 16 too. People are going to reply: "What about Jakob Chychrun and Tyler Myers?" but this is almost exclusively a one way street these days.

If i were Canadian that would piss me off too. If the kid is a dual and grows up in the US, all bets are off. But if a kid never lives here, go play for ÿour real country.

 

[clevelandcane]

I'm thrilled Jamie Glance was invited along with the Mount and Mission kids in SGC and Garcia. Also happy to see Francisco and Odin Vauhkonen. Is Francisco a D or an F? He was playing F in the MN tournament.

I was sure Camden Nimmer would be invited after seeing him last year with BK but maybe he hasn't played as well with Caesars.

How about a kid from Wilkes-Barre Scranton being invited?! Pretty cool.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm thrilled Jamie Glance was invited along with the Mount and Mission kids in SGC and Garcia. Also happy to see Francisco and Odin Vauhkonen. Is Francisco a D or an F? He was playing F in the MN tournament.

I was sure Camden Nimmer would be invited after seeing him last year with BK but maybe he hasn't played as well with Caesars.

How about a kid from Wilkes-Barre Scranton being invited?! Pretty cool.

Francisco played 1st pair RHD at the YOG. I’m guessing that’s where they see him.

 

[IWillMakeTheNHL]

Jonas Kemps rose so fast. Last season he played aa and made national camp out of playing aa, then makes the NTDP camp after his first aaa season!

 

[kyle44]

Are they really benefiting from the Canadian development system and funding? Is Hockey Canada footing some bill that has helped him become what he is?

And while he’s probably benefited from coaching and all that in Canada, I’m not really sure he wouldn’t have been as good had he grown up in the USA. Just as I’m sure if you dropped most kids from like Minnesota into Manitoba they’d probably be any better or worse than they are now.

I think each player should play for the country they feel the most allegiance to within reason (country of mother, father, or citizenship). I want that to be my country, but if Hurlbert had a Canadian mother and wanted to play for the London Knights, I wouldn’t be upset.

And I completely recognize the USA benefits the most, which is why I would like to see it all equalized so the playing field is more level. I get Canada gets disadvantages sometimes, but they can handle it. I feel more for countries like Czechia or Slovakia who can’t handle it.

They key difference here being Hurlbert would still represent the USA despite playing in Canada. The NTDP is virtually the only program in the world where a two-year commitment to said team locks the player into playing for that country internationally (pretty much for life). In this case, you've got guys like Beuker and William Moore captaining Team Ontario or Team Saskatchewan one month, but wearing a USA jersey the next.

I have no problem with guys like Celebrini, Fantilli and Power playing in the the USA but representing Canada, as I would still get to see them play for Canada internationally at future events.

 

[kyle44]

These are humans not shrubs. Although if you are getting technical, I suppose their American mothers or fathers are the ones that "grew" them.

Develop your own Canadian National Development Team program if you don't want players opting this route. It's the single best junior team to play in for anybody that wants to go to the NHL and not be subject to signing away years of your life to play for the Sh*tawka Syrupfaces in some prairie town.

Pretty rich considering Beuker was born, raised and played all of his hockey in Humboldt, a town of 6,000 people, and that helped turn him into a player that your gold standard program is now coveting. Lets not pretend you and Bonney wouldn't be whining if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Lets not pretend you and Bonney wouldn't be whining if the shoe was on the other foot.

There is only one group doing the whining. That's not pretend. It's kind of weird how much you feel a need to "claim" 15 year olds. They don't belong to you or to anyone.

 

[kyle44]

There is only one group doing the whining. That's not pretend. It's kind of weird how much you feel a need to "claim" 15 year olds. They don't belong to you or to anyone.

Sure dude. Any time on this site, which is designed to talk about hockey, prospects, international teams, scouting, and associated implications, someone wants to have a real world discussion, people like you throw out the "kinda weird" accusations. Nobody wants to "claim" anyone. There's nothing wrong with lamenting the fact that the USA program has consistently benefitted from Canada born and trained talent in recent years.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Sure dude. Any time on this site, which is designed to talk about hockey, prospects, international teams, scouting, and associated implications, someone wants to have a real world discussion, people like you throw out the "kinda weird" accusations. Nobody wants to "claim" anyone. There's nothing wrong with lamenting the fact that the USA program has consistently benefitted from Canada born and trained talent in recent years.

Just like Canadians benefit from playing in major United States markets that allow them to play in a huge professional hockey league and make millions of dollars? Unless you think they'd still be multi-millionaires playing professionally in a League with 10 teams and cities like Saskatoon and Halifax...

Crosby has lived more of his life in the U.S. than Canada at this point, lol

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Sure dude. Any time on this site, which is designed to talk about hockey, prospects, international teams, scouting, and associated implications, someone wants to have a real world discussion, people like you throw out the "kinda weird" accusations. Nobody wants to "claim" anyone. There's nothing wrong with lamenting the fact that the USA program has consistently benefitted from Canada born and trained talent in recent years.

Exactly. And even though both of their parents are from the States, the Hughes Brothers became what they are because they grew up in the GTA and played in the GTHL. Only Luke played as much or more minor hockey in the States. There's a decent chance they don't become what they've become without living in Canada.

Just like Canadians benefit from playing in major United States markets that allow them to play in a huge professional hockey league and make millions of dollars? Unless you think they'd still be multi-millionaires playing professionally in a League with 10 teams and cities like Saskatoon and Halifax...

Crosby has lived more of his life in the U.S. than Canada at this point, lol

You're not wrong, but apples to oranges with that comparison. You've shifted the argument from talking about minor hockey & international representation to pro hockey & its markets, which are different conversations.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You're not wrong, but apples to oranges with that comparison. You've shifted the argument from talking about minor hockey & international representation to pro hockey & its markets, which are different conversations.

Nope, it's fundamentally a discussion about nativism. People think it's BS that players aren't compelled to where they played minor hockey and crying about it, same as every year. They claim things like the GTHL "made" the Hughes brothers, so did Pittsburgh "make" Crosby? He played in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States a lot longer than Jack Hughes played for the Toronto Marlboros. But they say the Toronto team "developed" Hughes, but Crosby just happened to end up in Pittsburgh. Not realizing how fluid borders can be. It's a clear hypocrisy.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Nope, it's fundamentally a discussion about nativism. People think it's BS that players aren't compelled to where they played minor hockey and crying about it, same as every year. Not realizing how fluid borders can be.

Nah I just think it's another example of people taking advantage of a loophole. EJ Emery is as Canadian as one could be, growing up and playing minor hockey entirely in British Columbia, but because his dad is from the States, he's allowed to play for the NTDP... I find it to be odd and if I were Canadian, I'd likely be even more pissed.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Nah I just think it's another example of people taking advantage of a loophole.

Being born to a parent from a particular country is not a "loophole"... it's just who you are.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Being born to a parent from a particular country is not a "loophole"... it's just who you are.

Representing a country you've never lived in is definitely a loophole. Happens in soccer and other sports quite often.

 

[landy92mack29]

Nah I just think it's another example of people taking advantage of a loophole. EJ Emery is as Canadian as one could be, growing up and playing minor hockey entirely in British Columbia, but because his dad is from the States, he's allowed to play for the NTDP... I find it to be odd and if I were Canadian, I'd likely be even more pissed.

Yeah I don't blame the kids for using the loophole as the NTDP is a great development environment and basically guarantees the player a really good school but it's kinda BS if the kid has never lived in the states before.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Representing a country you've never lived in is definitely a loophole. Happens in soccer and other sports quite often.

That's not a loophole. The rule is you must be a citizen. It's not about residence.

 

[kyle44]

Nope, it's fundamentally a discussion about nativism. People think it's BS that players aren't compelled to where they played minor hockey and crying about it, same as every year. They claim things like the GTHL "made" the Hughes brothers, so did Pittsburgh "make" Crosby? He played in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States a lot longer than Jack Hughes played for the Toronto Marlboros. But they say the Toronto team "developed" Hughes, but Crosby just happened to end up in Pittsburgh. Not realizing how fluid borders can be. It's a clear hypocrisy.

The issue is the borders aren't fluid; they're pointing in a one way direction towards the United States. A country with 350 million people shouldn't need to pump up its program with Canadian, Swedish or Czech born players that fundamentally have no connection to USA hockey. These players take up spots on teams in Canada, benefit from subsidies or tax credits from the Canadian government, captain provincial teams and the the next week its: "whoops, I'm American now." The whole thing is just laughable, and if you can't see how this is different than where a player plays their professional hockey, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He's had zero connection to USA Hockey until it came time for the 2023 NTDP Evaluation Camp Roster invites were being handed out. He's never lived in the States, he's Canadian born and bred, developed through GTA minor hockey up through the GTHL.

Incorrect, an American parent, or else he wouldn't fit the IIHF Eligibility criteria.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

The connection is that they are American citizens and then play and develop for a couple of years in a program directly funded by USA Hockey. How does Moore have no connection to USA Hockey? He literally is playing for the USNDTP. The IIHF determines who is eligible for each country... and they say dual citizens can pick their country, but you must be a citizen. I get it, you want Americans banned from being allowed to play in Canada due to nativist policies, take it up with your government. It is indeed laughable about how upset you get about where 15 year olds choose to play junior hockey.

I don't think most Canadians want to ban US players from playing major junior or playing minor hockey in Canada. That's a bit extreme. CHL fans loved having Jeremy Roenick, Pat LaFontaine, Patrick Kane, Jason Robertson, Matthew Tkachuk, John Carlson, Keith Yandle, Conor Garland, Mike Modano, Arthur Kaliyev, Bobby Ryan, Christian Dvorak, and many more playing in their league.

 

[sigx15]

Without fail, every year the NTDP selection thread devolves into some US vs Canada nonsense. Can we cut it out and get back to talking about the players themselves?