2024 25 Kraken Roster Discussion

[Kevinsane]

This game is who effs up last.

 

[Irie]

Look at the Sabres. Imagine that they have a goalie they can count on. Then, imagine they don’t have a really solid D they can count on. Pretty much everything else is the same as the Kraken. A lot of hope without anything to back it up so far.

@Irie would have far more opinions about these two teams and will probably shit all over my drunken takes.

As long as the takes are drunken, I am probably good with them

 

[Irie]

Sabres fan here. What does Seattle need on the NHL roster? Just getting a pulse for it as the Sabres may need a massive rebuild. Thanks

The two teams area just one or two spots from each other and near the bottom of the standings. Funny thing is, they both sorta could really use the same things.

1.) A game changing true #1 center
2.) A coach who coaches a system that wasn't commonplace in the 90s.

 

[CLW]

The two teams area just one or two spots from each other and near the bottom of the standings. Funny thing is, they both sorta could really use the same things.

1.) A game changing true #1 center
2.) A coach who coaches a system that wasn't commonplace in the 90s.

#2 bugs me.

Case in point - last night against EDM (and MIN and STL and WSH and TBL recently etc.). Teams with good X and O coaches know exactly how the Kraken want to move the puck. They choke off the puck movement at the critical points, the Kraken's transition fails, the Kraken cough up the puck and it goes the other way and ends up in the net. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat...

This is extra annoying because the Kraken have a lot of good PMDs and their forwards are mostly light and agile. This team cannot afford to fail at transition, especially not to fail to get out of a heavy forecheck because they don't have the troops to fight grunt wars in the trenches.

 

[Fuhrious]

#2 bugs me.

Case in point - last night against EDM (and MIN and STL and WSH and TBL recently etc.). Teams with good X and O coaches know exactly how the Kraken want to move the puck. They choke off the puck movement at the critical points, the Kraken's transition fails, the Kraken cough up the puck and it goes the other way and ends up in the net. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat...

This is extra annoying because the Kraken have a lot of good PMDs and their forwards are mostly light and agile. This team cannot afford to fail at transition, especially not to fail to get out of a heavy forecheck because they don't have the troops to fight grunt wars in the trenches.

Honestly this is a good summation of why it surprised me to hear the players mutinied against Hakstol. Despite his other shortcomings, he was at least playing a fast skating transition system that fit the players he had. Between that and an unsustainable-to-the-point-of-comical shooting % we got the cinderella playoff season and a team that was incredibly entertaining to watch.

This iteration isn't either of those things and seems to be asking players to run a system they clearly don't fit or even like. So are they happy with the results of their little revolt?

 

[Der Jaeger]

I’m not a fan of having two #1 D on the same team. I’m not down on Owen Power but I think he’s being wasted behind Dahlin.

Does Seattle need a #1 D like Power?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I’m not a fan of having two #1 D on the same team. I’m not down on Owen Power but I think he’s being wasted behind Dahlin.

Does Seattle need a #1 D like Power?

I am not convinced that Power is that much of an upgrade over Montour or Dunn. Our biggest single need is an elite top line forward. Does not matter if its at wing or C but that is what this team should try to target via trade or UFA this off-season. Especially if it's a trade which will involve significant assets going the other way, like Power would.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Look at the Sabres. Imagine that they have a goalie they can count on. Then, imagine they don’t have a really solid D they can count on. Pretty much everything else is the same as the Kraken. A lot of hope without anything to back it up so far.

@Irie would have far more opinions about these two teams and will probably shit all over my drunken takes.

We're basically a worse version of the Sabres.

Can't play defense, can barely score, a few young talented players who can't put it together and be elite. Except Sabres have Dahlin and Thompson who are better than anything on the Kraken roster, and have young talent in spades. I wish we had a Benson, JJP, Kulich, etc. Hopefully our prospects get there but they're probably a few years away.

I think Thompson would probably be the main piece we'd be interested in realistically, though I'd prefer just getting guys I mentioned that are younger, but I don't see either of our teams as being great trading partners.

Maybe if they wanted some overpaid old wingers...

 

[Dead Coyote]

I am not convinced that Power is that much of an upgrade over Montour or Dunn. Our biggest single need is an elite top line forward. Does not matter if its at wing or C but that is what this team should try to target via trade or UFA this off-season. Especially if it's a trade which will involve significant assets going the other way, like Power would.

I'd prefer a center as wingers are generally more available in the draft/FA and we could theoretically move both Beniers and Wright (or Stephenson) to the wing, but yeah, really more than anything I think what we need is an elite offensive talent. I think Ownership would also be happier to step back and not interfere as much if we had someone like a Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Kane, Draisatl, Kucherov, etc who could really showcase high skill and would put bodies in the seats and was always dangerous as a scorer.

We have the goalie, our defense isn't amazing but on paper should be fine (Dunn and Evans sucking defensively is something of an outlier this season but if we had more talent up front we wouldn't have to invest in PMD like Dunn + Montour either) and we have a boatload of middle six/bottom six talent, we really just need a full line of elite offensive production

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I'd prefer a center as wingers are generally more available in the draft/FA and we could theoretically move both Beniers and Wright (or Stephenson) to the wing, but yeah, really more than anything I think what we need is an elite offensive talent. I think Ownership would also be happier to step back and not interfere as much if we had someone like a Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Kane, Draisatl, Kucherov, etc who could really showcase high skill and would put bodies in the seats and was always dangerous as a scorer.

We have the goalie, our defense isn't amazing but on paper should be fine (Dunn and Evans sucking defensively is something of an outlier this season but if we had more talent up front we wouldn't have to invest in PMD like Dunn + Montour either) and we have a boatload of middle six/bottom six talent, we really just need a full line of elite offensive production

LOL. Yeah we do. But for now, I will be happy with 1 forward on the team who is elite ofensively and we can count on to generate chances when we are down.

 

[Fuhrious]

Previously, I feel like Dunn (and now Montour and Evans) were able to freestyle more because Larsson (and to a lesser extent Oleksiak) were playing really solid lockdown D. This season both have really started to show their age.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Previously, I feel like Dunn (and now Montour and Evans) were able to freestyle more because Larsson (and to a lesser extent Oleksiak) were playing really solid lockdown D. This season both have really started to show their age.

The whole D is not playing well as a unit but I think the inconsistencies from Oleksiak and Larsson have definitely hurt the team. Both by stunting the offense that Dunn and Montour can generate as well as the team defense as a whole since them trying to cheat has caused more problems.

Oleksiak should be moved this off-season and we need to get a more mobile D-man to pair with Montour. Someone who focuses on defense but can skate. Larsson, we can only wish he can bounce back.

 

[CLW]

The Kraken are similar to the Sabres in that they play scissors to other teams rocks, and then it doesn't work. Both are brittle teams that leak goals against when it matters.

Overall view: This team is half-baked, if that. The root issues remain the rosters overall talent, depth, "size", maturity (the team's "demography" is unbalanced, another issue shared with the Sabres) and the system. The top 12 "real" playoff teams are bigger, heavier, more talented and/or savvy, deeper and play more solid hockey. It follows the Kraken need to get bigger, heavier, more talented/savvy, deeper and play more solid hockey if they want to compete with the good teams. Good teams are hard to break down and the Kraken are not. This team's root problem starts with the team D, backup goaltending and iffy coaching. The offense is spotty but leaking bad goals every game is a more serious problem.

UFA: The Kraken currently belong to the bottom half group of mediocre teams that are aiming for a WC spot. The WC was created to give the mediocre teams something to aim for and create the illusion they are competing. I know it's tempting to add an expensive, soon-to-be overthehill top end UFA to push the team towards the top of the mediocre bottom-half horde, but in the long run doing that will create its own set of problems. It's a bit like peeing in the pants to feel good, it's not really a solution... unless that UFA is the rare unicorn true 1C. I mean it's fine to aim for a WC spot and nothing wrong with entertaining the fans, but the overall goal has to be to compete for the cup. Vegas never babbled about grabbing a WC spot, they talked winning the Cup from day 1.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The Kraken are similar to the Sabres in that they play scissors to other teams rocks, and then it doesn't work. Both are brittle teams that leak goals against when it matters.

Overall view: This team is half-baked, if that. The root issues remain the rosters overall talent, depth, "size", maturity (the team's "demography" is unbalanced, another issue shared with the Sabres) and the system. The top 12 "real" playoff teams are bigger, heavier, more talented and/or savvy, deeper and play more solid hockey. It follows the Kraken need to get bigger, heavier, more talented/savvy, deeper and play more solid hockey if they want to compete with the good teams. Good teams are hard to break down and the Kraken are not. This team's root problem starts with the team D, backup goaltending and iffy coaching. The offense is spotty but leaking bad goals every game is a more serious problem.

UFA: The Kraken currently belong to the bottom half group of mediocre teams that are aiming for a WC spot. The WC was created to give the mediocre teams something to aim for and create the illusion they are competing. I know it's tempting to add an expensive, soon-to-be overthehill top end UFA to push the team towards the top of the mediocre bottom-half horde, but in the long run doing that will create its own set of problems. It's a bit like peeing in the pants to feel good, it's not really a solution... unless that UFA is the rare unicorn true 1C. I mean it's fine to aim for a WC spot and nothing wrong with entertaining the fans, but the overall goal has to be to compete for the cup. Vegas never babbled about grabbing a WC spot, they talked winning the Cup from day 1.

Man. I agree with all of this so much it annoys me.

- We don't have talent
- We don't have size
- We don't have grit

The team has never had any real identity. Or any real leader. Our 'identity' has been a depth team or an energy team. Is that really an identity? I don't know. But I don't think so. Francis has not tried to really "build a team" in my opinion. It has been an attempt to get players with mediocre talent, fit them into the "team" and hope that giving them more ice time and "opportunities" works. Giordano was not on the Kraken for long but I actually liked what he bought. A lot of leadership and lead by example on the ice. Gave it his all and despite his size he played hard and produced.

I like Eberle and feel like he has stepped into the leadership role well, but I don't think he is the type of leader we need. We need someone who plays pissed, calls out the team and leads by example on the ice. Eberle has been doing the last pretty well to be honest, but this team needs more from its Captain.

Also, I am not advocating anything here, but going into season 5, how patient do we think ownership is really going to be. I know a lot of people here have expressed continuing to build via the draft and be patient. While I agree and think we could try to be quiet with trades and FA for another 2 seasons while continuing to build via the draft, I don't think that would be a real option for ownership. They can't be ok with another 2 seasons with us drafting top-10. This is not an Edmonton or Montreal market.

The last paragraph is what worries me right now. They go with the middle approach. Continue to add mediocre and talent and hope it works to get us close to that WC spot. They are not trying to ace a test. They are just trying for a passing grade.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Man. I agree with all of this so much it annoys me.

- We don't have talent
- We don't have size
- We don't have grit

The team has never had any real identity. Or any real leader. Our 'identity' has been a depth team or an energy team. Is that really an identity? I don't know. But I don't think so. Francis has not tried to really "build a team" in my opinion. It has been an attempt to get players with mediocre talent, fit them into the "team" and hope that giving them more ice time and "opportunities" works. Giordano was not on the Kraken for long but I actually liked what he bought. A lot of leadership and lead by example on the ice. Gave it his all and despite his size he played hard and produced.

I like Eberle and feel like he has stepped into the leadership role well, but I don't think he is the type of leader we need. We need someone who plays pissed, calls out the team and leads by example on the ice. Eberle has been doing the last pretty well to be honest, but this team needs more from its Captain.

Also, I am not advocating anything here, but going into season 5, how patient do we think ownership is really going to be. I know a lot of people here have expressed continuing to build via the draft and be patient. While I agree and think we could try to be quiet with trades and FA for another 2 seasons while continuing to build via the draft, I don't think that would be a real option for ownership. They can't be ok with another 2 seasons with us drafting top-10. This is not an Edmonton or Montreal market.

The last paragraph is what worries me right now. They go with the middle approach. Continue to add mediocre and talent and hope it works to get us close to that WC spot. They are not trying to ace a test. They are just trying for a passing grade.

Why not though? Seattle has consistently been at 100% capacity it's entire life span. We're still pretty new to the rebuild, if that is even what it is, and I think fans will be a lot more excited with our team watching and looking forward to a Hagens, Misa, or whoever the next 2 Connor McConnors are then watching us struggle and be slightly better because we added a Marner. Casual fans probably won't care or know that we added anyone and less casual fans will know that getting top talent is way more important than winning 5 extra games a season.

The main thing is the coaching, dump and chase isn't an exciting style of hockey. Losing isn't great either but I think most casual fans will be way more okay with losing in a dramatic fashion or still getting a few goals or exciting moments than trying to stifle both teams offense and lose 2-1 anyways.

I'm still not sure it matters though- we're already at the bottom and still at 100% capacity the entire season. Fans don't seem to care all that much.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Why not though? Seattle has consistently been at 100% capacity it's entire life span. We're still pretty new to the rebuild, if that is even what it is, and I think fans will be a lot more excited with our team watching and looking forward to a Hagens, Misa, or whoever the next 2 Connor McConnors are then watching us struggle and be slightly better because we added a Marner. Casual fans probably won't care or know that we added anyone and less casual fans will know that getting top talent is way more important than winning 5 extra games a season.

The main thing is the coaching, dump and chase isn't an exciting style of hockey. Losing isn't great either but I think most casual fans will be way more okay with losing in a dramatic fashion or still getting a few goals or exciting moments than trying to stifle both teams offense and lose 2-1 anyways.

I'm still not sure it matters though- we're already at the bottom and still at 100% capacity the entire season. Fans don't seem to care all that much.

Seattle is one of the sports cities where fan loyalty is not really an issue. The only team I am a fan of is the Kraken, but it's pretty evident that there is a good amount of support for even the teams who have had extended stretches at being bad.

I don't think these decisions are going to be made for the fans though. The ownership has made it pretty clear they want to win sooner than later. They have allowed Francis to spend to the cap in an attempt to be competitive. There is also no secret that they are looking to get an NBA expansion team.

That plus let's be honest. Is there any guarantee that waiting 3, 4 or even 5 years lands us an elite game changing player? How long till said player will be ready for the NHL?

All that being said, I thing the bolded is a big deal. For good teams, W's are all that matter. But for bad teams like us, its important to put an exciting product on the ice. I have said the same thing as the bolded. We are a bad and boring team. That is a pretty bad combination.

 

[CLW]

What is that bible quote about (paraphrasing) "lukewarm, I spit you out".

Montreal, one of the biggest and craziest hockey markets in the world, went for a full rebuild after years/decades of going in futile circles. And the fans accepted, even wanted it. Good for them. The Kraken have a large group of interesting prospects incoming, but they are two or three years away most of them, which is fine, nor are they top end as much as middle six/middle pair at best. The top end talent needs restocking and what better time to do it than now over the next couple of seasons WC be damned. Not being a lottery team in the McKenna sweepstakes, for this org, would be weird as hell.

I don't find the Kraken boring as much as frustrating. There are clearly players on the team that are not giving 100% and the system is iffy. It feels as if the Kraken are trying to play a game similar to the Jets' (an expertly coached team) without fully understanding how to do so or having the team to do so...

Also I don't think it's Eberle's fault some players are checked out, he's a good captain and does compete as hard as he can from what I've seen. But you can't make horses drink... It's up to management to deal with the players that are not fully pulling their weight (regardless of who they are and if management want to admit it or not) or are fading out of the league due to age/decline.

This really is not the summer for management to be lukewarm. They have work to do to sort out the roster and make real decisions for the long term vision and, it seems, within their own group. Whatever the plan was they had for this year, and with Bylsma, it's pretty clear it went pearshaped. Jessica seems to be an asset for the org but can they afford to let her learn on the job (PP) next season? Maybe it's best to find something else for her. Woods (responsible for the D) needs to go in any case I feel.

 

[sigma six]

If you're a bottom-5 team this year, you should be planning go after the best chance possible to draft McKenna next year. And DuPont the year after that, he's the next Makar.

Me from around the time I joined this board would be kicking dirt on my own shins for typing this.
But after watching certain teams tank their asses off and go on to win it due to the phenomenal talent they drafted, I'm not sure there's a better way to ultimately win these days.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

If you're a bottom-5 team this year, you should be planning go after the best chance possible to draft McKenna next year. And DuPont the year after that, he's the next Makar.

Me from around the time I joined this board would be kicking dirt on my own shins for typing this.
But after watching certain teams tank their asses off and go on to win it due to the phenomenal talent they drafted, I'm not sure there's a better way to ultimately win these days.

Maybe. But it is still far from a guarantee that we land DuPont or McKenna.

And how do we force a tank for our team? Keep Gru and Bura. Move McCann and few other of our better vets and give the kids spots? Keep the same coaching staff?

I mean it could actively signal that we are tanking but I don't see us doing this. It's just not practical.

 

[sigma six]

Maybe. But it is still far from a guarantee that we land DuPont or McKenna.

And how do we force a tank for our team? Keep Gru and Bura. Move McCann and few other of our better vets and give the kids spots? Keep the same coaching staff?

I mean it could actively signal that we are tanking but I don't see us doing this. It's just not practical.

Idk, am new at this train of thought.
But look at the games we've been watching, you can dump Gru and we'll still lose plenty of games because the D in front of them is consistently bad. Maybe that's due to scheme and points to coaching, others here are far better at X's and O's than I am.

Of course there are no guarantees, (Edmonton, TO) and I still despise tanking but it feels like the reality. Sucks while you're in it, but ask the pens fans if they care after 15-20 years of contention and three cups in that time.

 

[Scomerica]

Man. I agree with all of this so much it annoys me.

- We don't have talent
- We don't have size
- We don't have grit

The team has never had any real identity. Or any real leader. Our 'identity' has been a depth team or an energy team. Is that really an identity? I don't know. But I don't think so. Francis has not tried to really "build a team" in my opinion. It has been an attempt to get players with mediocre talent, fit them into the "team" and hope that giving them more ice time and "opportunities" works. Giordano was not on the Kraken for long but I actually liked what he bought. A lot of leadership and lead by example on the ice. Gave it his all and despite his size he played hard and produced.

I like Eberle and feel like he has stepped into the leadership role well, but I don't think he is the type of leader we need. We need someone who plays pissed, calls out the team and leads by example on the ice. Eberle has been doing the last pretty well to be honest, but this team needs more from its Captain.

Also, I am not advocating anything here, but going into season 5, how patient do we think ownership is really going to be. I know a lot of people here have expressed continuing to build via the draft and be patient. While I agree and think we could try to be quiet with trades and FA for another 2 seasons while continuing to build via the draft, I don't think that would be a real option for ownership. They can't be ok with another 2 seasons with us drafting top-10. This is not an Edmonton or Montreal market.

The last paragraph is what worries me right now. They go with the middle approach. Continue to add mediocre and talent and hope it works to get us close to that WC spot. They are not trying to ace a test. They are just trying for a passing grade.

I think Seattle is lucky in the sense there's no NBA competition and the weather sucks in winter. Having an indoor event is always going to be appealing, especially once football season is over. I think fans will always show as it's something to do, whether they can charge top dollar for it if the team is truly rotten and rebuilding is a different matter. I also think fans are pretty patient, just look at the baseball team across the city.

When (please god) the Kraken do get good and get a true elite star I expect them to be the hot thing in town like the Seahawks were in the LOB era, bandwagoners and all. Everyone loves a winner and I expect tickets to be really difficult and expensive to get.

There's also a huge gap right now in the city for a true star to latch on to that will take their teams on deep play off runs right now. Kraken dont really have any, Seahawks not really, Sounders don't, Mariners have big dumper and Julio but Julio had a down year and Raleigh is just one piece.

 

[CLW]

Idk, am new at this train of thought.
But look at the games we've been watching, you can dump Gru and we'll still lose plenty of games because the D in front of them is consistently bad. Maybe that's due to scheme and points to coaching, others here are far better at X's and O's than I am.

Of course there are no guarantees, (Edmonton, TO) and I still despise tanking but it feels like the reality. Sucks while you're in it, but ask the pens fans if they care after 15-20 years of contention and three cups in that time.

This team can add tons of UFA and become Nashville. Or they can tank and become Buffalo. There are no guarantees either way. It really is up to having a smart GM and luck. Florida got nowhere for ages, then a new GM came in and made brilliant moves around the core already in place (essentially Barkov). But since this franchise is a baby still they should continue to stack picks and build depth through the draft. They don't need to use every pick but the prospect pool and the NHL roster still have huge holes. The foundation is not in place no matter how much the FO want to pretend otherwise.

I think Dunn and McCann eg would rather play elsewhere. It's not tanking to trade them for a haul.

But I agree with those that say this ownership doesn't really care about smart or building a true winner. They want a spectacle they can sell. Every indication is that they intend to "be active" in the offseason where they will have very stiff competition (ie overpay badly). I'll believe hockey smart when I see it.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

This team can add tons of UFA and become Nashville.

We are like Nashville this season already. We signed Montour and Cups are in the bottom-6 like they are with Stamkos and Marchessault.

Or they can tank and become Buffalo. There are no guarantees either way. It really is up to having a smart GM and luck. Florida got nowhere for ages, then a new GM came in and made brilliant moves around the core already in place (essentially Barkov).

Luck is certainly a big part. The GM willing to take some chances is another. Maybe we get both this coming off-season. We can all hope, right?

I think Dunn and McCann eg would rather play elsewhere. It's not tanking to trade them for a haul.

Moving those two are very logical moves in my mind. Personally, we should jump on the opportunity to try and get some good prospects back or high draft picks. However, while I agree it's not "tanking", how do you explain moving your best forward and D-man (arguably) for prospects in year 5 after feeding the fans the "competitive" talk.

But I agree with those that say this ownership doesn't really care about smart or building a true winner. They want a spectacle they can sell. Every indication is that they intend to "be active" in the offseason where they will have very stiff competition (ie overpay badly). I'll believe hockey smart when I see it.

I have mixed feeling about ownership. On one side, you can tell they are willing to spend to the cap and do what they can do make the team competitive. However, like this has been agreed upon by quite a few of us, Francis was never the right GM if the idea was to be competitive right off the bat. Asking a super conservative GM to ice a competitive team this early was a poor decision on their part.

This could very likely be Francis' last season as GM if the team does NOT make the playoffs next season. The question is just how much of our future does he sell (trades) or commit to (UFA's) to make the push.

 

[Scomerica]

Is it fair to say the play off season is looking like a bit of a fluke where the star aligned a bit vs the talent on the team?

 

[Scomerica]

How quickly did Carolina become competitive post Ron Francis? Was it the case that he had left them a decent farm system to build on and the next gm just took more risks in wheeling and dealing that Francis won't do or did he leave them a mess?