2024 25 Kraken Roster Discussion

[kihei]

Where do you guys see Nyman getting lined up today?

4th line, about 11 minutes worth. Hoping for more.

 

[kihei]

Going into the 5th season and having to admit that we don't have a core yet is probably something Francis or the organization admits to. I don't think it is nearly enough of a core for a new expansion team going into its 5th year. But that is where, us fans, have the luxury of waiting as long as it takes to find that "superstar" that we want to build around. I am pretty sure you and I would be more than comfortable to be patient another 2-3 years.

Some of us fans, maybe. I just turned 80 in January, so the luxury of waiting is a little dicier in my case. I could be pushing up daisies before the Kraken win two consecutive playoff series.

I would still counsel patience if we are ever to become a franchise to be reckoned with. That being said, yes, management is going to do something and RF seems eager enough to do it whether through conviction or because he feels the pressure to keep his job, likely the latter. Just don't start throwing high first round draft choices at 28 year olds is my minimum ask. Ideally, don't start throwing first round draft choices around at all. I lived through the Cliff Fletcher era in Toronto. I know whereof I speak.

 

[The Marquis]

Some of us fans, maybe. I just turned 80 in January, so the luxury of waiting is a little dicier in my case. I could be pushing up daisies before the Kraken win two consecutive playoff series.

I would still counsel patience if we are ever to become a franchise to be reckoned with. That being said, yes, management is going to do something and RF seems eager enough to do it whether through conviction or because he feels the pressure to keep his job, likely the latter. Just don't start throwing high first round draft choices at 28 year olds is my minimum ask. Ideally, don't start throwing first round draft choices around at all. I lived through the Cliff Fletcher era in Toronto. I know whereof I speak.

And here I was thinking you were among the youngest of us.

As to the rest of your post. What about 2 low 1st round draft picks for a 100 point 28 year old? We've got those to spare.

 

[CLW]

Some of us fans, maybe. I just turned 80 in January, so the luxury of waiting is a little dicier in my case. I could be pushing up daisies before the Kraken win two consecutive playoff series.

I would still counsel patience if we are ever to become a franchise to be reckoned with. That being said, yes, management is going to do something and RF seems eager enough to do it whether through conviction or because he feels the pressure to keep his job, likely the latter. Just don't start throwing high first round draft choices at 28 year olds is my minimum ask. Ideally, don't start throwing first round draft choices around at all. I lived through the Cliff Fletcher era in Toronto. I know whereof I speak.

I hear you. I followed the Winnipeg Jets move to become the Arizona Coyotes at the dawn of the internet. I then spent some years watching Arizona circle the toilet bowl, always spending all their trade and draft ammo, in endless attempts at becoming a "playoff team" until I got tired of the stupidity and nonsense. I'd rather not see the Kraken become a rich man's Arizona, or a Columbus eternally on the periphery of the league (hopefully that changes now with this CBJ team). Do this build properly, become a real franchise, then start to cook aiming at the cup (not just the playoffs). That's the only real way forward.

What Francis is aiming at doing now, trading from the prospect pool and draft picks aiming at expensive players and UFA, is what teams that have maxed out their prospect pool do, which the Kraken clearly has not done yet. Montreal is getting there, San Jose will in a year or two, Anaheim e.g. as well soonish. Too soon means the timing is off, so Francis needs to balance this carefully or he'll add many years to the build for no good reason.

Maybe I'm overreacting (out of hockey PTSD) after all Francis hasn't done anything yet. But the marketing points to him being (overly) eager for action this summer and I guess I can only hope he doesn't do too much damage. Some really smart move(s) would be welcome, but those are always pleasant surprises in this world.

 

[kihei]

And here I was thinking you were among the youngest of us.

As to the rest of your post. What about 2 low 1st round draft picks for a 100 point 28 year old? We've got those to spare.

Must be my inherent immaturity shining through.....

As to your proposal. If all it took was two late first round draft picks to nab Pasternak, the Kraken would be foolish not to consider it. But you know that wouldn't be nearly close to being enough. The Bruins would want Wright and Catton, too. From the Bruins perspective, even that might not be sufficient given the fact that they have traded away so many of the team's former stalwarts and some of their fans are not too happy about it. So it's kind of a moot point.

 

[majormajor]

I hear you. I followed the Winnipeg Jets move to become the Arizona Coyotes at the dawn of the internet. I then spent some years watching Arizona circle the toilet bowl, always spending all their trade and draft ammo, in endless attempts at becoming a "playoff team" until I got tired of the stupidity and nonsense. I'd rather not see the Kraken become a rich man's Arizona, or a Columbus eternally on the periphery of the league (hopefully that changes now with this CBJ team). Do this build properly, become a real franchise, then start to cook aiming at the cup (not just the playoffs). That's the only real way forward.

What Francis is aiming at doing now, trading from the prospect pool and draft picks aiming at expensive players and UFA, is what teams that have maxed out their prospect pool do, which the Kraken clearly has not done yet. Montreal is getting there, San Jose will in a year or two, Anaheim e.g. as well soonish. Too soon means the timing is off, so Francis needs to balance this carefully or he'll add many years to the build for no good reason.

Maybe I'm overreacting (out of hockey PTSD) after all Francis hasn't done anything yet. But the marketing points to him being (overly) eager for action this summer and I guess I can only hope he doesn't do too much damage. Some really smart move(s) would be welcome, but those are always pleasant surprises in this world.

Your memory of the Coyotes didn't quite match mine, so I checked, and they drafted in the 1st round 37 times in 28 years. They had their big moments of impatience but by and large my memory is that team sat through a lot of long rebuilds that didn't work. Impatience can lead to disaster and so can patience.

 

[CLW]

Your memory of the Coyotes didn't quite match mine, so I checked, and they drafted in the 1st round 37 times in 28 years. They had their big moments of impatience but by and large my memory is that team sat through a lot of long rebuilds that didn't work. Impatience can lead to disaster and so can patience.

Could be. I took a long break from hockey for years before I came back around the time of Chayka.

Anyway my memory is that they had poor drafting with low investment in scouting. Or maybe they were just unlucky. I happened to personally influence some of their draft choices. I spouted off on Arizona's rec.sports.hockey page (pre- hf.boards) about the Russian coach Jursinov who, after coming to Finland and starting a hockey revolution in Turku (TPS) that saw players like Saku Koivu, Jere Lehtinen, Miika Kiprusoff, Mikko Koivu, Sami Salo etc etc make it to the NHL, moved to Switzerland. I wondered if he might do the same thing there for Swiss hockey and talked about some WJC players from Switzerland. Arizona were apparently following my line of thought because they drafted exactly those two Swiss players from Jursinov's new Swiss club (albeit lower 5 and 6 picks if my poor memory serves)... I always thought of that as a funny, or a complete coincidence heh.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Could be. I took a long break from hockey for years before I came back around the time of Chayka.

Anyway my memory is that they had poor drafting with low investment in scouting. Or maybe they were just unlucky. I happened to personally influence some of their draft choices. I spouted off on Arizona's rec.sports.hockey page (pre- hf.boards) about the Russian coach Jursinov who, after coming to Finland and starting a hockey revolution in Turku (TPS) that saw players like Saku Koivu, Jere Lehtinen, Miika Kiprusoff, Mikko Koivu, Sami Salo etc etc make it to the NHL, moved to Switzerland. I wondered if he might do the same thing there for Swiss hockey and talked about some WJC players from Switzerland. Arizona were apparently following my line of thought because they drafted exactly those two Swiss players from Jursinov's new Swiss club (albeit lower 5 and 6 picks if my poor memory serves)... I always thought of that as a funny, or a complete coincidence heh.

For a very long time they had poor drafting and scouting in the late 90s and early 2000s, but around the time Maloney/Chayka started they began to try and stockpile picks and retool, especially in the Maloney era, which then saw Chayka spend a lot of picks on young players and trying to compete. Once GMBA took over with Meruelo they went in massively on drafting though as GMBA brought an elite squad of scouts over as his entire management staff and began to obtain picks like nobody's business. They've since spent some of those picks on some younger guys like Sergachev and traded some prospects away but still have a very deep prospect pool.

Early in their history their drafting and development really sucked though (though it sucked a lot more league wide) and they made a lot of boneheaded moves like trading Briere, and got unlucky with a lot of their pick placement as well.

I was a Coyotes fan for close to 15 years before the team got sold and I eventually ended up well...here.

 

[CLW]

For a very long time they had poor drafting and scouting in the late 90s and early 2000s, but around the time Maloney/Chayka started they began to try and stockpile picks and retool, especially in the Maloney era, which then saw Chayka spend a lot of picks on young players and trying to compete. Once GMBA took over with Meruelo they went in massively on drafting though as GMBA brought an elite squad of scouts over as his entire management staff and began to obtain picks like nobody's business. They've since spent some of those picks on some younger guys like Sergachev and traded some prospects away but still have a very deep prospect pool.

Early in their history their drafting and development really sucked though (though it sucked a lot more league wide) and they made a lot of boneheaded moves like trading Briere, and got unlucky with a lot of their pick placement as well.

I was a Coyotes fan for close to 15 years before the team got sold and I eventually ended up well...here.

Yeah, that's exactly how I remember it. I soured on the Coyotes when they drafted that psycho bully kid under GMBA. I liked BA's overall approach but that was such a tone deaf and stupid mistake at a time the franchise was in a precarious position.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Yeah, that's exactly how I remember it. I soured on the Coyotes when they drafted that psycho bully kid under GMBA. I liked BA's overall approach but that was such a tone deaf and stupid mistake at a time the franchise was in a precarious position.

That was still under Chayka or Sullivan I believe, GMBA wasn't hired as GM until September of that year.

 

[CLW]

That was still under Chayka or Sullivan I believe, GMBA wasn't hired as GM until September of that year.

Nah I'm pretty sure it was BA's first draft. Now that I think about it iirc he was barred from participating in the draft for some reason so he left it all to the scouting department and they dropped that bomb in his lap. In any case he was left with cleaning up the mess, he went to visit the bullied kid and his family to hear the full story.

 

[Fuhrious]

Man that shot of Nyman’s folks in the crowd after his goal actually got me a little choked up. As a dad I can only imagine the immense pride they must have felt for their son. Tingles a little just thinking about it again. Love that for him and them.

 

[majormajor]

Twenty goals already for Tolvanen. I hate to be a broken record on this but sometimes the difference between a good team and a bad team is that the good team has some Tolvanen type players in the middle of their lineup. They're not always easy to get. I hope we can hang on to him.

For context - 88 players leaguewide currently have 20+ goals. That's an average per team just under 3.

 

[gstommylee]

I hear you. I followed the Winnipeg Jets move to become the Arizona Coyotes at the dawn of the internet. I then spent some years watching Arizona circle the toilet bowl, always spending all their trade and draft ammo, in endless attempts at becoming a "playoff team" until I got tired of the stupidity and nonsense. I'd rather not see the Kraken become a rich man's Arizona, or a Columbus eternally on the periphery of the league (hopefully that changes now with this CBJ team). Do this build properly, become a real franchise, then start to cook aiming at the cup (not just the playoffs). That's the only real way forward.

What Francis is aiming at doing now, trading from the prospect pool and draft picks aiming at expensive players and UFA, is what teams that have maxed out their prospect pool do, which the Kraken clearly has not done yet. Montreal is getting there, San Jose will in a year or two, Anaheim e.g. as well soonish. Too soon means the timing is off, so Francis needs to balance this carefully or he'll add many years to the build for no good reason.

Maybe I'm overreacting (out of hockey PTSD) after all Francis hasn't done anything yet. But the marketing points to him being (overly) eager for action this summer and I guess I can only hope he doesn't do too much damage. Some really smart move(s) would be welcome, but those are always pleasant surprises in this world.

Unless you want to give up our talented players in our prospect pool like catton, Rephkof, nyman to name a few in that trade for some expensive player which may or may not make a huge difference, i would be a bit cautious at the current moment.

I'll be honest i'll be surprised if we actually get someone really talents to want to join this mess the team is in at the moment. Mikko if he made it to FA wouldn't want to and marner probably won't want to be here either.

 

[CLW]

Marner won't come, he's too much of a Diva that wants all the money and all the limelight. Don't want him either.

 

[Fuhrious]

Here's an idea...and it's crazy.

Francis calls Dallas, "Notice you've got a bit of a cap situation down there, I've got McCann and a couple of these shiny 1st rounders in return for an extended Jason Robertson"

THATS the sort of player I want Francis chasing. Not UFAs like Marner.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Here's an idea...and it's crazy.

Francis calls Dallas, "Notice you've got a bit of a cap situation down there, I've got McCann and a couple of these shiny 1st rounders in return for an extended Jason Robertson"

THATS the sort of player I want Francis chasing. Not UFAs like Marner.

Love it. This is exactly the type of calls that Francis needs to be making. Keep his eyes and ears open and looking for openings like that.

I am torn on Marner. UFA's of the caliber of Marner almost never hit the market. They cost no assets other than cap space. You may have to overpay but atleast it is for elite talent.

On the other hand I don't understand his situation 100%. I was actually looking at the Leafs board last week and the opinion on him is pretty divided. Quite a few Leafs fans have said that Marner has been well within his rights to act the way he has had and he owes the Leafs organization nothing. I would not be surprised if he looks at our desperation but uses it only to have leverage against the Leafs in negotiations. He seems to really want to stay in Toronto.

If Marner is seriously interested in a change in scenery though, I think his new team may get a very motivated Marner.