2024-25 Kraken Roster discussion

[The Marquis]

Bjorkstrand and Kartye likely healthy scratches tonight. Yikes.

Wow. I mean… I’m a huge Bjorkstrand homer, but he has been invisible for the last 3.. or perhaps there’s a trade brewing. Kartye I feel has been more present, but still hasn’t done much of anything. That’s a big move holding out Bjorkstrand… who the heck is replacing him? I figure Hayden for Gourde and Gourde on the wing? Something like that? But I thought our other suite dweller was Fleury.

Edit: Didn’t realize Winterton was up.

 

[Fuhrious]

Kartye has been one of the team's best forwards the last two games per Hockey Stat Cards, so that's a bit surprising. Honestly the player that needs scratched is Burakovsky. I feel like I'm ready to accept that the guy is just cooked.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Wow. I mean… I’m a huge Bjorkstrand homer, but he has been invisible for the last 3.. or perhaps there’s a trade brewing. Kartye I feel has been more present, but still hasn’t done much of anything. That’s a big move holding out Bjorkstrand… who the heck is replacing him? I figure Hayden for Gourde and Gourde on the wing? Something like that? But I thought our other suite dweller was Fleury.

Edit: Didn’t realize Winterton was up.

While listening to ECH yesterday they did say that Bjorky did well under Hakstol but has struggled under Bylsma because he plays an east-west game as opposed to a north-south game. Still too early in the season to see trades, BUT given how much Francis spent in the off-season, I would not be surprised if they try some trades.

Kartye has been one of the team's best forwards the last two games per Hockey Stat Cards, so that's a bit surprising. Honestly the player that needs scratched is Burakovsky. I feel like I'm ready to accept that the guy is just cooked.

I don't see Kartye as a problem, either. Burakovsky on the other hand, has been very disappointing, considering he is now healthy. Schwartz has looked decent to me so far this season which has been a net positive given my expectations.

 

[majormajor]

While listening to ECH yesterday they did say that Bjorky did well under Hakstol but has struggled under Bylsma because he plays an east-west game as opposed to a north-south game. Still too early in the season to see trades, BUT given how much Francis spent in the off-season, I would not be surprised if they try some trades.

What practically speaking do you see as the difference with the east-west? I know what those words mean but when I've been watching I haven't quite picked up on where the responsibilities differ under Bylsma.

Bjorkstrand is definitely a forechecker first and foremost and benefits from a system with a lot of aggressive dump and chase, but it didn't look to me like we had stopped doing that under Bylsma.

FWIW, you'll find plenty of Jackets fans willing to trade a good return to get him back. They've gone back to an aggressive forechecking system under Evason and he would work there. But then I'm just kind of more lost on what the Kraken are supposed to be. You take the forecheck away from this team then what's left?

 

[The Marquis]

What practically speaking do you see as the difference with the east-west? I know what those words mean but when I've been watching I haven't quite picked up on where the responsibilities differ under Bylsma.

Bjorkstrand is definitely a forechecker first and foremost and benefits from a system with a lot of aggressive dump and chase, but it didn't look to me like we had stopped doing that under Bylsma.

FWIW, you'll find plenty of Jackets fans willing to trade a good return to get him back. They've gone back to an aggressive forechecking system under Evason and he would work there. But then I'm just kind of more lost on what the Kraken are supposed to be. You take the forecheck away from this team then what's left?

I wonder the same thing. Forecheck is important but leaves gaps open for breakaways, which happens a lot against the Kraken. The eye test says it’s a system that needs bigger guys.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

What practically speaking do you see as the difference with the east-west? I know what those words mean but when I've been watching I haven't quite picked up on where the responsibilities differ under Bylsma.

Bjorkstrand is definitely a forechecker first and foremost and benefits from a system with a lot of aggressive dump and chase, but it didn't look to me like we had stopped doing that under Bylsma.

FWIW, you'll find plenty of Jackets fans willing to trade a good return to get him back. They've gone back to an aggressive forechecking system under Evason and he would work there. But then I'm just kind of more lost on what the Kraken are supposed to be. You take the forecheck away from this team then what's left?

I have watched only bits and pieces of the last 3 games but when they looked better early in the season the focus seemed to be using stretch passed to get the puck quickly out of our zone. Then either dump and chase in or get a clean zone entry just by skating into it.

I did not seem them using dump and chase early in the season BUT the zone entries were clean. Now the opponents are clogging the entries up and I don't think they are quite committed to dump and chase, unless that has changed over the last few games.

Bjorkstrand is a solid forechecker but I don't think he is suited best for puck retrievals. And the team as a whole has struggled just getting into the offensive zone. If they want to get the puck out of the zone and quickly dump and chase, I don't think Bjorkstrand is the best fit for that role.

I have no doubt at all that Bjorkstrand would fetch a good amount in the trade. But like you, I am also lost on what they are actually trying to do. The scheme over the first few games was simple but it was working.

- Quick zone entry
- Puck battles (forechecking)
- Net front presence

The net front presence was already slowing down after the first 5 game, then zone entries started getting clogged. And you can't really forecheck if you can't get in the zone or get to a dump and chase in time.

 

[The Marquis]

It FEELS a bit like Bylsma is getting out coached. Like he’s exposed his plan and has no answer for the response.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

It FEELS a bit like Bylsma is getting out coached. Like he’s exposed his plan and has no answer for the response.

Yeah. The problem is that the team is trying to learn a system. They got that down (kind of) and the teams adjusted. They need to make adjustments in turn and are just unable to do so. I don't know if that is on coaching or players.

ECH alluded to something like this a few weeks back too where they were talking about the team getting used to the "standard" system before they start working on adjustments. Looks like the clocks running for them on that now.

 

[majormajor]

I wonder the same thing. Forecheck is important but leaves gaps open for breakaways, which happens a lot against the Kraken. The eye test says it’s a system that needs bigger guys.

We were a forechecking team under Hakstol, and we had the speed and tenacity for it. I was confused by the earlier comment on Bjorkstrand but now I'm confused on what is supposed to be different under Bylsma.

The forecheck needs speed and tenacity and we had it. Gourde and Tanev have lost some speed and that hurts the forecheck somewhat. We also really could use some size but I think of that more for the net front.

I have watched only bits and pieces of the last 3 games but when they looked better early in the season the focus seemed to be using stretch passed to get the puck quickly out of our zone. Then either dump and chase in or get a clean zone entry just by skating into it.

I did not seem them using dump and chase early in the season BUT the zone entries were clean. Now the opponents are clogging the entries up and I don't think they are quite committed to dump and chase, unless that has changed over the last few games.

Bjorkstrand is a solid forechecker but I don't think he is suited best for puck retrievals. And the team as a whole has struggled just getting into the offensive zone. If they want to get the puck out of the zone and quickly dump and chase, I don't think Bjorkstrand is the best fit for that role.

I have no doubt at all that Bjorkstrand would fetch a good amount in the trade. But like you, I am also lost on what they are actually trying to do. The scheme over the first few games was simple but it was working.

- Quick zone entry
- Puck battles (forechecking)
- Net front presence

The net front presence was already slowing down after the first 5 game, then zone entries started getting clogged. And you can't really forecheck if you can't get in the zone or get to a dump and chase in time.

I was confused because Bjorkstrand was the ultimate north south dump and chase player. I thought you were saying he couldn't do the east-west. The east-west stuff doesn't come as naturally to him. Retrievals were something he was doing at an elite level as recently as last year, he's squirmy and gets leverage and has the core and arm strength to win those battles at a high rate. I would need to watch more this year to know if that changed. Superficially his results are still good - best goal share on the team, best corsi %. So that scratching remains a mystery to me.

Do you know where ECH talked about Bjorkstrand? I'd appreciate a time stamp or a rough time of episode if possible.

 

[Scomerica]

Feels like the season is spiraling already. We need to get a win soon.

 

[The Marquis]

Feels like the season is spiraling already. We need to get a win soon.

Doesn’t help having Vegas up next.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Do you know where ECH talked about Bjorkstrand? I'd appreciate a time stamp or a rough time of episode if possible.

Sorry. I do not remember. I have been trying to catch up to their podcasts so have listened to a few over the last week. I will try to check though and let you know if I find it.

 

[Kevinsane]

I just want to see net front presence on the power play, something other than drop passes as a zone entry tactic, and some FIRE! Losing should suck, and LIGHT a fire, and I’m not seeing it in the way the Kraken start games.

 

[The Marquis]

I just want to see net front presence on the power play, something other than drop passes as a zone entry tactic, and some FIRE! Losing should suck, and LIGHT a fire, and I’m not seeing it in the way the Kraken start games.

You’ve brought up a good point. There’s a fire, but it isn’t enough.

They also mostly suck. Stephenson, Burakovsky out. Not good

 

[Fuhrious]

Ok this might sound crass but here goes…

Does anyone watch other team’s games, specifically other bubble or “tanking”/rebuilding teams, and think to yourself “even this team has 2-3 players who are better than anyone on the Kraken roster”?

I feel like I’ve done that at least a couple times so far this season already. Am I crazy?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Ok this might sound crass but here goes…

Does anyone watch other team’s games, specifically other bubble or “tanking”/rebuilding teams, and think to yourself “even this team has 2-3 players who are better than anyone on the Kraken roster”?

I feel like I’ve done that at least a couple times so far this season already. Am I crazy?

All the time. But I think its rather unfair because our team is built from the discard pile. UFA will almost never get you those star players.

It's either the draft or a rare type of trade. We were pretty unlucky with the draft years where we drafted high. Neither of them were great drafts.

There is a chance that some of our prospects do end up being our best players but it is way too early to tell. I hear you though. It is pretty demoralizing to see that the best player(s) on any team you play against are better than your best players.

 

[kihei]

Ok this might sound crass but here goes…

Does anyone watch other team’s games, specifically other bubble or “tanking”/rebuilding teams, and think to yourself “even this team has 2-3 players who are better than anyone on the Kraken roster”?

I feel like I’ve done that at least a couple times so far this season already. Am I crazy?

Yes, I have done something similar. I made up a game of "Would they (the other team) make that trade?" I dangled either Dunn or Beniers or McCann and came up with similar results.

We have lost seven of our last eight games, so a win against Vegas seems improbable. But at least it's a home game, and perhaps Joey can steal one. Maybe the crowd can help light that fire.

 

[majormajor]

Ok this might sound crass but here goes…

Does anyone watch other team’s games, specifically other bubble or “tanking”/rebuilding teams, and think to yourself “even this team has 2-3 players who are better than anyone on the Kraken roster”?

I feel like I’ve done that at least a couple times so far this season already. Am I crazy?

That's what I've seen our entire existence.

We were good in 2022-23 and we had the same thing then. If anything, McCann and Dunn are better now than they were that year, when they were also our top guys.

There is a chance that some of our prospects do end up being our best players but it is way too early to tell. I hear you though. It is pretty demoralizing to see that the best player(s) on any team you play against are better than your best players.

I take solace that it's not that predictable about where your top players are going to come from. That and Berkly Catton will save us.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Ok this might sound crass but here goes…

Does anyone watch other team’s games, specifically other bubble or “tanking”/rebuilding teams, and think to yourself “even this team has 2-3 players who are better than anyone on the Kraken roster”?

I feel like I’ve done that at least a couple times so far this season already. Am I crazy?

No, you're not crazy.

I would actually go so far as to say that McCann's shot is the only elite offensive skill the Kraken actually have on their roster.

Of course it's a bit unfair given that the Kraken are only in year four and had to start their team from the leftovers of other teams.

Vegas happening before and everyone believing that this might possible for expansion teams didn't help either while it also was a warning to other teams front offices to not act completely foolish.

Having ownership trying to win now and "be competitive" might also not be the best thing at this point in time.

To me this team needs at least a re-tool around the younger guys(+ maybe Dunn and McCann) but that won't happen(ownership wants to win and Francis has put himself in a corner with those signings) and makes it really hard to aquire those elite/high end caliber players.

Because of that the Kraken probably have to hope that Catton pans out(no mater if at center or wing) cause he, to me, seems like the only guy with enough offensive talent to realistically become a ppg player.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854619718277382498

 

[Bear of Bad News]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854620511483183456

 

[Fuhrious]

Going off Marquis' last post in the Colorado GDT, you kinda summed up something I've been feeling already...apathy. I've already started to feel like "The season just started, I shouldn't already be as indifferent to catching tonight's game as I was when they were mathematically eliminated at the end of last season".

Quite frankly...the team just isn't that fun to watch 80 to 90% of the time.

Fell in love with the team when they played the fast, hard working style in seasons 1 and 2, and they just aren't doing that anymore, despite having almost the exact same roster.

 

[The Marquis]

Going off Marquis' last post in the Colorado GDT, you kinda summed up something I've been feeling already...apathy. I've already started to feel like "The season just started, I shouldn't already be as indifferent to catching tonight's game as I was when they were mathematically eliminated at the end of last season".

Quite frankly...the team just isn't that fun to watch 80 to 90% of the time.

Fell in love with the team when they played the fast, hard working style in seasons 1 and 2, and they just aren't doing that anymore, despite having almost the exact same roster.

We do need to remember that we do have some exciting new developing players to watch, like Shane Wright. It can’t be better being a Ducks or Sharks fans, but they have young promising players too, and it’s certainly worse being a Sabres or Red Wings fan these days. We just have to lose hope and watch for different reasons.

 

[Scomerica]

We've traded for Daniel Sprong for future considerations.

How was he when he left Seattle?

We need something I guess but part of me would rather try a youngster and give them experience.

Does this mean the end of Bjorkstrand?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

SPRONG!