Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread

[Anaheim4ever]

If you exclude trades or guys who were already on the Ducks the previous season than the biggest UFA signing for Murray was Koivu, Souray, Lydman and M Perreault. Kesler was via trade, Selanne and Niedermayer re-signed several times and weren't even qconsidering other teams. Niedermayer was originally Burkes UFA signing.

Considering the Ducks were contenders for most of Murray's time as GM than his record on getting UFAs to go to Anaheim was bad. He made up for it by doing alot of trades like bringing in Visnovsky, Kesler, Henrique. Perron, Wiz, Whitney, Etc.

Verbeek has gotten Vatrano, Klingberg, Gudas, Killorn and Strome to choose the Ducks in his first 3 years as GM of a rebuilding team.

 

[Rooch]

I won't belabor the point any longer. Love that this site gives equal time and space for opposing points of view. I'll just say this: I think it's fair to judge an NHL GM based on his performance, and you've all made great points about who Verbeek HAS signed and that trades are another avenue through which to build. BUT, have the players he's signed or traded for so far improved the team's performance? Judging by our record, which is the only metric that really matters, they have not.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I won't belabor the point any longer. Love that this site gives equal time and space for opposing points of view. I'll just say this: I think it's fair to judge an NHL GM based on his performance, and you've all made great points about who Verbeek HAS signed and that trades are another avenue through which to build. BUT, have the players he's signed or traded for so far improved the team's performance? Judging by our record, which is the only metric that really matters, they have not.

I dont think the team was ever going to improve without the young kids taking the steps forward, that will be the biggest factor for us... unfortunetly last year zegras/carlsson/mctavish all missed significant time... add that to terry not really seeming like himself and killorn missing time and it was a bit of a throw away season.

IMO the signings trades arnt really brought here to improve the teams performance, but more so to improve the kids performance. Were not exactly a UFA destination... so its always going to depend on drafting/development and the young guys taking step forwards.

I think if Mctavish zegras and carlsson stay fairly healthy last year, we are significantly better.

 

[JAHV]

It is fair to judge an NHL GM based on his performance. But I think that performance has to be viewed in context and over time. I think Verbeek has two more years to get this team into playoff (not necessarily Cup) contention. He will have been on the job for four full seasons plus a partial season at that point. If the team isn't in the playoffs or at least on the verge in 25-26, the Ducks should probably look elsewhere.

I want to see playoff hockey as much as anyone. That's a long time to go without. But this is the way Verbeek has decided to rebuild and I think it's the best way - get a ton of good young assets by tearing it down, develop them, and then add players as you go. I have faith that it's going to add up to something good eventually.

 

[tomd]

Seems to me that most of the contracts handed out on July 1st were insane and the premium Verbeek would have paid to get them to come to Anaheim would have only made them more insane.

 

[Reveille1984]

I dont think the team was ever going to improve without the young kids taking the steps forward, that will be the biggest factor for us... unfortunetly last year zegras/carlsson/mctavish all missed significant time... add that to terry not really seeming like himself and killorn missing time and it was a bit of a throw away season.

IMO the signings trades arnt really brought here to improve the teams performance, but more so to improve the kids performance. Were not exactly a UFA destination... so its always going to depend on drafting/development and the young guys taking step forwards.

I think if Mctavish zegras and carlsson stay fairly healthy last year, we are significantly better.

Pretty much this.

That's the risk of going through a "scorched Earth" rebuild where you're building an entirely new team from scratch. All of your core players are 19-21 years old, and every season you cross your fingers and hope for some breakthroughs. At the same time nobody wants to sign with you in FA because your team is awful, and you also don't want to give out any big money contracts at the risk of not being able to pay your own guys in the future.

For better or for worse, this is the ride we're on and the only thing we can do is have patience. Even in a world where we signed Stamkos, the only real difference would have been some leadership aspects that he can provide.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Pretty much this

That's the risk of going through a "scorched Earth" rebuild where you're building an entirely new team from scratch. All of your core players are 19-21 years old, and every season you cross your fingers and hope for some breakthroughs. At the same time nobody wants to sign with you in FA because your team is awful, and you also don't want to give out any big money contracts at the risk of not being able to pay your own guys in the future.

For better or for worse, this is the ride we're on and the only thing we can do is have patience. Even in a world where we signed Stamkos, the only real difference would have been some leadership aspects that he can provide.

I think last season was more unfortunate than bad, id expect us to take a significant sized step forward this season. We finished with 59 points last year, i would prob expect us to hit around 75-80 this season assuming the team stays average healthy +

 

[JAHV]

Just as one final piece of this discussion - I understand the frustration. For those who are baseball fans, I put my Angels fandom fully into dormancy this season. It had been going that way anyway, but I simply don't enjoy being a fan any more. I'll revive it if/when their owner is gone, but I have no hope they'll be good while he remains. It has been 10 years since they've made the playoffs, despite having the two best players in baseball for a good chunk of that time. It's not fun, and being a sports fan is supposed to be fun. The hope and joy and wonderful moments are supposed to overcome the frustration and anguish and heartbreak. If they don't, that's a problem for me.

I'm not there yet with the Ducks. I still hope that every year will bring progress of some kind.

 

[DavidBL]

Seems to me that most of the contracts handed out on July 1st were insane and the premium Verbeek would have paid to get them to come to Anaheim would have only made them more insane.

To me, I was only worried about contracts to 3-4 players. Outside of them I don't really disagree. We shouldn't over pay for more middle tier players which is what was left after those 3-4 players. But those were the players we needed. I don't think any of those deals were really outrageous. To be clear, those are the Stamkos, Marchessault, Roy, Pesce deals. They were high but not Crazy IMO.

 

[Hey234]

To me, I was only worried about contracts to 3-4 players. Outside of them I don't really disagree. We shouldn't over pay for more middle tier players which is what was left after those 3-4 players. But those were the players we needed. I don't think any of those deals were really outrageous. To be clear, those are the Stamkos, Marchessault, Roy, Pesce deals. They were high but not Crazy IMO.

The argument is, though, that they would have been crazy deals for the Ducks because they would have had to overpay more in years/dollars to sign here than they already did. It sucks but PV took his shot and it didn't work out. Unfortunate, but not unexpected. These things take time.

I've been overall happy with the choices PV's made at the draft and in FA this summer. Underwhelmed so far but there's nothing I can point to that feels like a mistake. Still would like him to add to the top 6 and top 4 RD, but we'll see.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I've listened to everything he's said, and you are correct: he guaranteed nothing and he delivered nothing. But he specifically mentioned more than once what positions he planned to fill. Are those positions filled? No, and free agency is over. In other hockey cities, when GMs flail and fail like this, they're held accountable.

This blind allegiance to Verbeek is baffling. He was hired two and a half years ago and we are still drafting in the top three and still missing on free agents. When does it stop being "cleaning up Bob Murray's mess" and starting being about Verbeek's own poor performance?

There are lots of perspectives going on with this discussion. IMO, the moment to throw your hands into the air was when Verbeek didn't seek RD help when Manson went to IR during all-star break, when Anaheim was 3rd in the Pacific. It was the precursor that Verbeek was going to "reset the rebuild". Many on here believed that there was no other choice for Verbeek, but there was. That's when the blind allegiance began for many.

Since we can't change history, all a Duck fan can do is to support the new direction. A rebuild, according to Verbeek, takes about five years to do. Verbeek reset the rebuild by blowing up the team. IMO, that means we are waiting about five years until we see something worthwhile. In waiting five years, Verbeek has purchased himself time, excuses, and mistakes because it's a reset rebuild.

We are heading into Year Three of the reset rebuild, a year after pushing up seven rookies into the NHL: G Dostal, C Groulx, C Carlsson, LD Mintyukov, LD/RD Lacombe, RD Luneau, and LD/RD Zellweger. The latter five are first time NHL'ers. Anaheim will be adding at least one rookie into the NHL in LW Cutter Gauthier with the potential of another in RW Colangelo for this coming season. Because Verbeek used the NHL as his development team last year, it just makes sense to continue that trend this year to gauge most of our rookies in their second season into the NHL.

If Verbeek were able to land a top-4RD and a top-6RW, then that would be great, but we'd still suck. That point seems to lost. We were only 1-point better this past season than the previous season and that's with a huge infusion of talent, both via rookies and vets (FA or trade). Our ES defense vastly improved, but our ES offense vast deteriorated, while our PP and PK remained beyond mediocre. In addition to all the rookies mentioned above, the team did add vets LW Killorn, RD Gudas, and RD Lyubuskin. Yet all we could do last year was improve by one point. Anaheim still needs vast amount of talent and better coaching.

The determining factor of becoming relevant again is with the youth movement b/c Verbeek blew up the team years ago. The youth contingent is where we will get a vast amount of improvement. On the blueline alone, the rookie additions of Mintyukov, LaCombe, and Zell has turned out to be a boon in helping to prevent goals. At ES goals against, the Ducks improved by reducing 54 goals allowed from the previous season.

We are still a gelatinous blob that needs conforming and hardening. We use FA to complement our current team. Right now, our team isn't all that attractive to high-end players even if we do throw around more money. If we don't show more growth for this coming season, then Verbeek may not see his reset rebuild to fruition.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Just as one final piece of this discussion - I understand the frustration. For those who are baseball fans, I put my Angels fandom fully into dormancy this season. It had been going that way anyway, but I simply don't enjoy being a fan any more. I'll revive it if/when their owner is gone, but I have no hope they'll be good while he remains. It has been 10 years since they've made the playoffs, despite having the two best players in baseball for a good chunk of that time. It's not fun, and being a sports fan is supposed to be fun. The hope and joy and wonderful moments are supposed to overcome the frustration and anguish and heartbreak. If they don't, that's a problem for me.

I'm not there yet with the Ducks. I still hope that every year will bring progress of some kind.

There's a vast difference between the Ducks and Angels organizations. The Ducks' owners do not involve themselves in front office operations like the Angels' owner does.

I started watching the Angels from afar when GM Dipoto resigned mid-season. The turmoil between the GM vs manager and owner were ongoing during Dipoto's tenure. Dipoto kept the Angels afloat and made the playoffs despite rife toxicity with the manager Sosh and owner Moreno. Although, many Angels fans on HFboard didn't want to hear it through the Eppler and early Minisian years. They do now realize that Moreno is an abysmal owner. Also, the Angels drafting was abysmal pre-Dipoto and during Eppler era, and we did have an all pitcher draft with Minisian b/c the owner doesn't spend money on pitchers. The recent first rounders (Neto, Schuanel) and traded piece in O'Hoppe is a good start, but so very far away in talent within the system.

With the Ducks, their owner is on the opposite spectrum. Hands off on hockey ops, created and is still creating a hockey atmosphere in the OC, as well as embracing the OC as home. Despite the non-playoff years, the scouting team is still hitting on prospects in the draft. At least our scouting team has remained in tact. Let's hope that our owners are willing to fire a GM if they haven't produced after five seasons.

 

[All Mighty]

I just think it’s very silly to make any sweeping generalizations 5 days into free agency. The Ducks are much better suited to add players through trade rather than free agency anyway. I was disappointed by our swings and misses, but I understand it and there is still plenty of time to make improvements.

 

[Rooch]

The argument is, though, that they would have been crazy deals for the Ducks because they would have had to overpay more in years/dollars to sign here than they already did. It sucks but PV took his shot and it didn't work out. Unfortunate, but not unexpected. These things take time.

I've been overall happy with the choices PV's made at the draft and in FA this summer. Underwhelmed so far but there's nothing I can point to that feels like a mistake. Still would like him to add to the top 6 and top 4 RD, but we'll see.

I'm hearing this interesting POV a lot: it would have been unwise to sign Stamkos, etc. because the prices were ridiculous. I hear that and understand it but it doesn't hold water for me.

What the hell do I care how expensive these players are? I'm not the GM or the owner; I'm a fan and I want my team to win. They want to compete? They want to add superstars? There's a high cost for that and everyone knows it. Anaheim was willing to pay, as they were under the minimum salary floor and had the capital to spend big. They tried.

Cost was not the issue, as it's been reported Verbeek offered more money and longer term than Nashtucky. It was about the attractiveness (or lack thereof) of the destination. Nobody wanted to play here. Why?

 

[Static]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1809277770259919329

Well, that's one RHD target down. The wording if this tweet makes it sound like the deal is larger?

 

[OCSportsfan]

I'm hearing this interesting POV a lot: it would have been unwise to sign Stamkos, etc. because the prices were ridiculous. I hear that and understand it but it doesn't hold water for me.

What the hell do I care how expensive these players are? I'm not the GM or the owner; I'm a fan and I want my team to win. They want to compete? They want to add superstars? There's a high cost for that and everyone knows it. Anaheim was willing to pay, as they were under the minimum salary floor and had the capital to spend big. They tried.

Cost was not the issue, as it's been reported Verbeek offered more money and longer term than Nashtucky. It was about the attractiveness (or lack thereof) of the destination. Nobody wanted to play here. Why?

This. If by chance we make the playoffs next year, I dont think there will be a probelm getting a prime FA. They also want to win, it is not just about the money in all cases. Making the playoffs with this young team, means the next 5 years will be golden, there are many who would want to be part of that.

 

[JAHV]

I'm hearing this interesting POV a lot: it would have been unwise to sign Stamkos, etc. because the prices were ridiculous. I hear that and understand it but it doesn't hold water for me.

What the hell do I care how expensive these players are? I'm not the GM or the owner; I'm a fan and I want my team to win. They want to compete? They want to add superstars? There's a high cost for that and everyone knows it. Anaheim was willing to pay, as they were under the minimum salary floor and had the capital to spend big. They tried.

Cost was not the issue, as it's been reported Verbeek offered more money and longer term than Nashtucky. It was about the attractiveness (or lack thereof) of the destination. Nobody wanted to play here. Why?

I don't think I've seen that point of view. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think the general thought has been that it would have been great to sign Stamkos or Marchessault, even at higher prices, but those two just didn't want to be here. I think the hesitation would have been to offer more money to a lot of the other free agents, since they aren't elite and wouldn't move the needle.

We care how expensive these guys are because it affects what we can pay our young players (or additional UFAs) in the future. In a cap world, there are finite resources available, even if the billionaire owners can afford it.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I won't belabor the point any longer. Love that this site gives equal time and space for opposing points of view. I'll just say this: I think it's fair to judge an NHL GM based on his performance, and you've all made great points about who Verbeek HAS signed and that trades are another avenue through which to build. BUT, have the players he's signed or traded for so far improved the team's performance? Judging by our record, which is the only metric that really matters, they have not.

I really do think we were or could have been an improved club this past season, if not for the consistent injuries to the top offensive talents. Defensively we were undoubtedly stronger, albeit not saying much based on the historically putrid showing the year prior. Early in the season, we actually had a somewhat respectable powerplay going, and a lot more counter attack at 5on5 compared to the team that was consistently cratered the year before. That was all with Z still being completely snakebitten as well.

Then we got into that phase where we always seemed to have at least a couple or more key guys always out or clearly zapped by injuries. That will almost take any team down a peg or two. A good team becomes more average, an average team starts to look kinda bad. We were an up and coming but still bad team that reverted back to being just bad. More reminiscent of the late Getz years where we weren't bad defensively but just didn't have nearly enough front line offense to counter attack.

I have optimism that we can see huge improvement just from our key young players being a year more physically and mentally mature. At some point soon, we are going to see Carlsson realize he's a complete stud. Mintyukov and Zell aren't consistent top 4 Dmen yet but they are going to be, and probably more. We have already seen Terry perform better than he did last year. We know that Zegras is capable of waaaaaay more than he was able to produce last year. McTavish obviously has shown stretches of being a higher end player but yet to do so consistently for close to a full season. Gauthier looks like the type of young player that can have an instant impact, or shouldn't take long at worst. Luneau looked pretty darn good for a 19 year old Dman in the NHL, obviously going to get tons better still.

I don't want to get too gloomy over some 35 year olds not choosing to sign here, the future of this team doesn't depend on them.

 

[DavidBL]

The argument is, though, that they would have been crazy deals for the Ducks because they would have had to overpay more in years/dollars to sign here than they already did. It sucks but PV took his shot and it didn't work out. Unfortunate, but not unexpected. These things take time.

I've been overall happy with the choices PV's made at the draft and in FA this summer. Underwhelmed so far but there's nothing I can point to that feels like a mistake. Still would like him to add to the top 6 and top 4 RD, but we'll see.

By all reports he did offer them more. I'm not as upset that he missed. I'm more upset that he appears to have created an environment that even an overpay isn't enough now. I get why a player might not want to come to a rebuilding team. It's one of the reasons I have always been against the "tank" or "scorched earth" rebuilds. Imo, you go into FA with a good idea of what you can accomplish. If those UFAs don't look likely he had the draft as a prime period to make trades. We had extra assets, teams might be looking to make room for UFas they want to target. Seems like a missed opportunity and now we're left begging from the scraps teams no longer want. My only real hope for an actual forward upgrade is Laine. I don't have much of any hope for D. Maybe he's got some Magic. But he's behind so far this offseason.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I'm hearing this interesting POV a lot: it would have been unwise to sign Stamkos, etc. because the prices were ridiculous. I hear that and understand it but it doesn't hold water for me.

What the hell do I care how expensive these players are? I'm not the GM or the owner; I'm a fan and I want my team to win. They want to compete? They want to add superstars? There's a high cost for that and everyone knows it. Anaheim was willing to pay, as they were under the minimum salary floor and had the capital to spend big. They tried.

Cost was not the issue, as it's been reported Verbeek offered more money and longer term than Nashtucky. It was about the attractiveness (or lack thereof) of the destination. Nobody wanted to play here. Why?

It’s a big swing and a miss. I’m more concerned that people here aren’t holding Verbeek accountable for what he tried to achieve.

I don’t pay attention to people pissing and moaning about potential cap problems because: a - if our prospect development stagnates, they won’t be offered a high amount, and b - Verbeek will trade the ones that are underperforming.

 

[Deuce22]

I'm hearing this interesting POV a lot: it would have been unwise to sign Stamkos, etc. because the prices were ridiculous. I hear that and understand it but it doesn't hold water for me.

What the hell do I care how expensive these players are? I'm not the GM or the owner; I'm a fan and I want my team to win. They want to compete? They want to add superstars? There's a high cost for that and everyone knows it. Anaheim was willing to pay, as they were under the minimum salary floor and had the capital to spend big. They tried.

Cost was not the issue, as it's been reported Verbeek offered more money and longer term than Nashtucky. It was about the attractiveness (or lack thereof) of the destination. Nobody wanted to play here. Why?

If we were talking Stamkos of 5 years ago, I'm right there with you. He is a superstar in name only now.

 

[Rooch]

If we were talking Stamkos of 5 years ago, I'm right there with you. He is a superstar in name only now.

He scored 40 goals last year.

 

[Deuce22]

He scored 40 goals last year.

Yes he did. 19 of those were on Tampa's stacked PP. His 5 on 5 numbers weren't good. He's still a great PP weapon as a shooter. Not an all around player. He would have helped Ducks' PP if signed, but been a negative defensively.

 

[Static]

He scored 40 goals last year.

Half on the PP though. His risk was always that he is no longer a very good ES player, he feasts on the PP.

Would he do that here? Obviously not to the degree that he did in Tampa. He certainly would have improved our PP, but probably not to the degree that we would have hoped. He was always going to be our 2020s fedorov signing.

 

[Duckesh]

There's a vast difference between the Ducks and Angels organizations. The Ducks' owners do not involve themselves in front office operations like the Angels' owner does.

I started watching the Angels from afar when GM Dipoto resigned mid-season. The turmoil between the GM vs manager and owner were ongoing during Dipoto's tenure. Dipoto kept the Angels afloat and made the playoffs despite rife toxicity with the manager Sosh and owner Moreno. Although, many Angels fans on HFboard didn't want to hear it through the Eppler and early Minisian years. They do now realize that Moreno is an abysmal owner. Also, the Angels drafting was abysmal pre-Dipoto and during Eppler era, and we did have an all pitcher draft with Minisian b/c the owner doesn't spend money on pitchers. The recent first rounders (Neto, Schuanel) and traded piece in O'Hoppe is a good start, but so very far away in talent within the system.

With the Ducks, their owner is on the opposite spectrum. Hands off on hockey ops, created and is still creating a hockey atmosphere in the OC, as well as embracing the OC as home. Despite the non-playoff years, the scouting team is still hitting on prospects in the draft. At least our scouting team has remained in tact. Let's hope that our owners are willing to fire a GM if they haven't produced after five seasons.

Not to talk Angels... But I went from watching a lot of Baseball as a kid mid 90's. I ditched a lot of college classes because of Angels playoff games and Championship run and the seasons after. Then I dropped baseball completely after the Zach Greinke trade and then not resigning and then signing.. Hamilton and someone else back around 2012. I haven't watched an Angels baseball game since except sometime in the last 13 years or whatever. Every year during those 2010's... no pitching... need pitching... get no pitching. Over and over and over. Year after year. Its like an absolute "we don't intend to compete" mentality. I was over it. Still am. I hope the Dodgers win now because they just seem to be serious about being a sports franchise.