Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[Leonardo87]

So was looking at some numbers, and this is what I found...

We have had 206 PP opportunities this season. Which is 16th in the league, really not too bad, considering in the past have gotten the short end of the stick on the calls, not so much this year. Basically, in the middle of the pack.

We have a 12.6% conversion rate which converts to 26 PP goals for the season, good for 2nd to dead last.

Imagine the Ducks had like a 19% PP. Which still puts them bottom 10 in the league. They'd have close to 40 PP goals. 14 more goals. That gives about 42 more points to be divided among our top PP players.

So much lost production. But also those 1 goal games? If Verbeek doesn't see an issue and address this summer don't know what to tell you.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

So was looking at some numbers, and this is what I found...

We have had 206 PP opportunities this season. Which is 16th in the league, really not too bad, considering in the past have gotten the short end of the stick on the calls, not so much this year. Basically, in the middle of the pack.

We have a 12.6% conversion rate which converts to 26 PP goals for the season, good for 2nd to dead last.

Imagine the Ducks had like a 19% PP. Which still puts them bottom 10 in the league. They'd have close to 40 PP goals. 14 more goals. That gives about 42 more points to be divided among our top PP players.

So much lost production. But also those 1 goal games? If Verbeek doesn't see an issue and address this summer don't know what to tell you.

He addressed it last season (Brown out/Clune in), didn't work. How he handles that will say a lot about him, at least to me.

Clune isn't shit, never coached, he's just a guy who called Cronin a bunch and put his own name in for consideration. Maybe they speak the same jargon-ese but here's another rookie NHL coach that you cannot call a success after seeing him in action. Maybe he'll figure it out and maybe not, but given our situation, maybe we should go find some guys who have done this before and done it well.

 

[Leonardo87]

He addressed it last season (Brown out/Clune in), didn't work. How he handles that will say a lot about him, at least to me.

Clune isn't shit, never coached, he's just a guy who called Cronin a bunch and put his own name in for consideration. Maybe they speak the same jargon-ese but here's another rookie NHL coach that you cannot call a success after seeing him in action. Maybe he'll figure it out and maybe not, but given our situation, maybe we should go find some guys who have done this before and done it well.

Them putting Leo in front of the net was just one of the issues. You are taking away his playmaking and shooting ability which are his strengths. He is not a deflection expert like a Kreider. That is one red flag there.

The Strome in for Zegras was another thing, you put a guy who has been ice cold in for a guy who already scored and had an assist (on the PP) earlier in the game. It's like what are you doing? Was there a balance reason to have a Righty out there. I don't buy that.

The FO and zone entries are another thing but that will improve as the kids get more experience. The bigger issue is when they are just standing around and not shooting. The Vet unit is more guilty of that, and are just killing their own PP.

Also, why is Cutter Gauthier not on the PP anymore? Killorn has been solid in all aspects of the game, but he is not a good PP forward.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I felt something was off watching Z late in the 3rd period last night. He kind of seemed lackadaisical. As much as I don't want to admit it, there might be some truth to the rumor about him pouting for not being on the 5-on-3.

Whether it's fair or not, stupid or not, he's gotta channel that anger and frustration into his game in a positive way. He's done that before with Eakins. Hopefully he hasn't lost that mechanism.

I'm glad i wasn't the only one to feel that. I noticed a couple drop passes that seemed way too casual. there might've been a few other plays as well.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I didn't like the comment because of how it came off but I didn't have the sense that he was criticizing Mac when he said it. I think he was just explaining how he saw Mac.

The description of Mac as a third liner was Cronin stating that was Mac's ceiling. At the time, I think Cutter was finally put on Mac's line and that was when Mac started to produce. Why make that comment when he's producing offense for the team? Mac has top-6 talent, but Cronin pencils him in as a grinding center. Weeks later, we see top-6 offensive production with Cutter-Mac-Colangelo and Z-Mac-Colangelo. Mac's a grinding center if you only give him non-offensive talented wingers.

It's a huge misjudgment of talent, imo. Kinda like Cronin stuffing Colangelo on the fourth line in his first and second call-ups. Put Colangelo with an offensive-minded center, and he produces. I think that psyche of defense first is a detriment to Cronin's talent assessment.

 

[MMC]

was Cronin stating that was Mac's ceiling

source?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Coaching should give Dostal a bit more rest b/c his March performance has dropped in several starts. Seven out of Dostal's 10 starts has him sub-0.900 Sv%. Granted, Gibby got injured in early March, but put Dostal on a 2 games on and 1 game off rotation. It's affecting him like at the start of the season where he played eight of the first 10 games and the following three games were abysmal performances, aka blowout losses, including against Chicago.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

source?

Cronin stating Mac's a third liner. It is in print and video online.

 

[anezthes]

He addressed it last season (Brown out/Clune in), didn't work. How he handles that will say a lot about him, at least to me.

Clune isn't shit, never coached, he's just a guy who called Cronin a bunch and put his own name in for consideration. Maybe they speak the same jargon-ese but here's another rookie NHL coach that you cannot call a success after seeing him in action. Maybe he'll figure it out and maybe not, but given our situation, maybe we should go find some guys who have done this before and done it well.

Yeah... Hot take: I don’t think it’s "smaaht" to have a bunch of inexperienced kids learning how to do that hockey under an inexperienced coaching staff.

 

[Gliff]

Cronin stating Mac's a third liner. It is in print and video online.

He was playing on the 3rd line. The statement was accurate.
Nowhere does he say that is his ceiling. You're either grasping at straws.

"My son is a pre-schooler". I'm not saying he won't make it to the 1st grade.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

The description of Mac as a third liner was Cronin stating that was Mac's ceiling. At the time, I think Cutter was finally put on Mac's line and that was when Mac started to produce. Why make that comment when he's producing offense for the team? Mac has top-6 talent, but Cronin pencils him in as a grinding center. Weeks later, we see top-6 offensive production with Cutter-Mac-Colangelo and Z-Mac-Colangelo. Mac's a grinding center if you only give him non-offensive talented wingers.

It's a huge misjudgment of talent, imo. Kinda like Cronin stuffing Colangelo on the fourth line in his first and second call-ups. Put Colangelo with an offensive-minded center, and he produces. I think that psyche of defense first is a detriment to Cronin's talent assessment.

Yeah I'm not defending the comment, it pissed me off because it could be taken as backhanded. It was careless. But it's still a qualitative difference between a comment revealing an unflattering (and incorrect) take about a player's spot in the lineup versus saying "this piece of shit is lucky to be playing," a la Roy. Those comments are way out of line.

Cronin's comment was just dumb.

 

[Deuce22]

The description of Mac as a third liner was Cronin stating that was Mac's ceiling. At the time, I think Cutter was finally put on Mac's line and that was when Mac started to produce. Why make that comment when he's producing offense for the team? Mac has top-6 talent, but Cronin pencils him in as a grinding center. Weeks later, we see top-6 offensive production with Cutter-Mac-Colangelo and Z-Mac-Colangelo. Mac's a grinding center if you only give him non-offensive talented wingers.

It's a huge misjudgment of talent, imo. Kinda like Cronin stuffing Colangelo on the fourth line in his first and second call-ups. Put Colangelo with an offensive-minded center, and he produces. I think that psyche of defense first is a detriment to Cronin's talent assessment.

A more savvy coach would have said something like, "Mac is a third liner now, but we hope better production will elevate him into the top 6."

 

[Mr Rogers]

I think there might've even been a third possibility - and I absolutely agree it was a sloppy and dumb comment. I almost don't put much weight into the literal words he used here. It might've been a very surface level retort without much deep thought beyond the fact that Mctavish plays a 3rd line style. I really don't think Cronin believes he's a 3rd liner from a skill perspective. I'm not sure he said that because he was technically on the 3rd line at the time either.

Maybe i'm going too easy on him but i just find it hard to believe given Mctavish's prior track record of production.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

He was playing on the 3rd line. The statement was accurate.
Nowhere does he say that is his ceiling. You're either grasping at straws.

"My son is a pre-schooler". I'm not saying he won't make it to the 1st grade.

Cronin could easily say Mac's a top-9 forward. Instead, Cronin said Mac "is" a third line guy who goes "back to the bottom six". Many Duck fans were upset with that description of Mac. Cronin did try to walk back the comment when talking to Mac days later. Why walk back a comment that is supposed to be insignificant? Eventually, Cronin describes Mac as a top-9 forward weeks later... from a 3rd liner w/ offense to a top-9F utility knife.

Jan 23, 2025
- From Zach Cavanaugh tweet , Cronin's quote that started it all.

Jan 27, 2025
- From the Athletic, Cronin walking the comment back

Feb 6, 2025
- from Zach Cavanagh article on the Sporting Tribune, Cronin's new description of Mac.

 

[Gliff]

Cronin could easily say Mac's a top-9 forward. Instead, Cronin said Mac "is" a third line guy who goes "back to the bottom six". Many Duck fans were upset with that description of Mac. Cronin did try to walk back the comment when talking to Mac days later. Why walk back a comment that is supposed to be insignificant? Eventually, Cronin describes Mac as a top-9 forward weeks later... from a 3rd liner w/ offense to a top-9F utility knife.

View attachment 1005568

Jan 23, 2025
- From Zach Cavanaugh tweet , Cronin's quote that started it all.

View attachment 1005557

Jan 27, 2025
- From the Athletic, Cronin walking the comment back

View attachment 1005561

Feb 6, 2025
- from Zach Cavanagh article on the Sporting Tribune, Cronin's new description of Mac.

View attachment 1005563

And yet nowhere in that essay does it address the fact that he literally never said 3rd liner was his ceiling, like you said he did.

 

[mightyquack]

If the Ducks finish below 500, between 25-28th in the standings (12th or 13th in the West) and around 20 points off the second wild card spot is that considered a successful season for the Ducks?

 

[dracom]

If the Ducks finish below 500, between 25-28th in the standings (12th or 13th in the West) and around 20 points off the second wild card spot is that considered a successful season for the Ducks?

barely a successful season. team was carried by two elite goaltenders all season. we'd be with the sharks and hawks without dostal and gibson.

 

[zegrassyknoll]

I’m too stupid to stop watching… please be less stupid than me, Pat. Please.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

And yet nowhere in that essay does it address the fact that he literally never said 3rd liner was his ceiling, like you said he did.

Mac "is" a third line guy going back to the bottom six. That's the descriptive confirmation. That is a Cronin designation's of his ceiling for his team. In the walk back, makeup later article, Cronin described Mac as a utility knife. Top-6 guys are "not" utility knife players. Bottom-6 guys are utility knives like Grantzlaf.

It feels like that "Murray didn't specifically say it was a rebuild" discussion all over again.

 

[Gliff]

Mac "is" a third line guy going back to the bottom six. That's the descriptive confirmation. That is a Cronin designation's of his ceiling for his team. In the walk back, makeup later article, Cronin described Mac as a utility knife. Top-6 guys are "not" utility knife players. Bottom-6 guys are utility knives like Grantzlaf.

It feels like that "Murray didn't specifically say it was a rebuild" discussion all over again.

And once again, nowhere does that say he feels it is his ceiling. He didn’t say anything incorrect. He was playing on the third line in a more checking role all season to that point.

I’m not going to keep arguing with you. Be outraged at this if you want.

 

[HanSolo]

The description of Mac as a third liner was Cronin stating that was Mac's ceiling. At the time, I think Cutter was finally put on Mac's line and that was when Mac started to produce. Why make that comment when he's producing offense for the team? Mac has top-6 talent, but Cronin pencils him in as a grinding center. Weeks later, we see top-6 offensive production with Cutter-Mac-Colangelo and Z-Mac-Colangelo. Mac's a grinding center if you only give him non-offensive talented wingers.

It's a huge misjudgment of talent, imo. Kinda like Cronin stuffing Colangelo on the fourth line in his first and second call-ups. Put Colangelo with an offensive-minded center, and he produces. I think that psyche of defense first is a detriment to Cronin's talent assessment.

I mean the third line, assuming that line even is the Mac line, is not really used as a grinder line. We basically have three scoring lines. Ironic term for a team that sucks ass at scoring, I know, but as much as I want Cronin gone I really don't think Mac and his line are deployed for physical punishment of the other team or for shutdown defense. And if they are, frankly, none of them are playing like it.

 

[HanSolo]

barely a successful season. team was carried by two elite goaltenders all season. we'd be with the sharks and hawks without dostal and gibson.

Yeah it honestly drives me nuts seeing all the "well at least we're higher in the standings" talk. Like you said, we got this far on the back of outstanding goaltending. Now that the same goaltending is starting to burn out and the team is no longer playing with belief and energy, we're back to the shit results.

We'll probably be better next year because the kids will invariably be farther along in their development, including Dostal. But I'm really not confident that Cronin will find the magic words and game prep needed to fix this team's continuing underlying issues.

 

[JAHV]

Yeah it honestly drives me nuts seeing all the "well at least we're higher in the standings" talk. Like you said, we got this far on the back of outstanding goaltending. Now that the same goaltending is starting to burn out and the team is no longer playing with belief and energy, we're back to the shit results.

We'll probably be better next year because the kids will invariably be farther along in their development, including Dostal. But I'm really not confident that Cronin will find the magic words and game prep needed to fix this team's continuing underlying issues.

We've definitely relied on goaltending to get standings points for most of the year, but I don't know about the "no longer playing with belief and energy" thing. In my opinion, they've played a lot better until last night. Even the San Jose game, as poor as that one was by the eye test, was a different thing. That one they looked like they believed in themselves TOO much and got sloppy because they were up against an inferior opponent.

Starting with the Blues game on March 7th, they've outchanced their opponents five times, been outchanced six times, and and had three games where they were essentially even (this is using expected GF% at 5-on-5 on naturalstattrick). That matches the eye test to me. They've had some stinkers, but they've also played pretty darn well at times. They dominated the Predators and Bruins, they beat the Sharks even though they weren't at their best, they looked good in wins against the Islanders and Rangers, and they hung tough in losses against Utah and the Maple Leafs. Until last night when they got bottled up and seemed to deflate in the second period, this still looked like team fighting for something.

Ultimately, I'd be happy to see Cronin go. I think there's more bad than good there. But I do think the team is starting to get better. It's just coming in fits and starts.

 

[Gliff]

If the Ducks finish below 500, between 25-28th in the standings (12th or 13th in the West) and around 20 points off the second wild card spot is that considered a successful season for the Ducks?

They went from 59 to 74 points with 7 games left to play. Let say they get 4 more points in the 7 remaining games, thats a 32% increase from last season.

Yes, a lot of the success is on the goalies carrying the team at the start of the year, but I still consider that a huge success. I think the biggest thing for the team is the kids progressing and playing games that matter. They were playing games that matter all the way up until mid March, and the kids are the best players on the team since the break.

I expected them to be between 5-10, they are likely to be there. Next year they need to be pushing for a playoff spot. If that isnt happening then I think PV's seat starts to get warm.

 

[Mr Rogers]

They went from 59 to 74 points with 7 games left to play. Let say they get 4 more points in the 7 remaining games, thats a 32% increase from last season.

Yes, a lot of the success is on the goalies carrying the team at the start of the year, but I still consider that a huge success. I think the biggest thing for the team is the kids progressing and playing games that matter. They were playing games that matter all the way up until mid March, and the kids are the best players on the team since the break.

I expected them to be between 5-10, they are likely to be there. Next year they need to be pushing for a playoff spot. If that isnt happening then I think PV's seat starts to get warm.

Agree with everything except the last sentence. I see Verbeek as having a ton of leash and by all accounts he’s overseen an influx of a lot of desperately needed young, elite talent (or at least of elite pedigree). You can definitively say he’s accomplished exactly what his goals were.

And the fact that Murray was able to stick around way too long tells me ownership gives these guys a lot of autonomy. I think it’s fair to say the Samuelis have never even fired a GM before ( Murray’s situation was unique where he basically screwed himself and even that probably was going on for a while)