Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
By personnel do you mean players or coaches? Because there’s definitely some players that shouldn’t be here next season, and there’s no justification for the coach who handles the PP should be back.
Meh I don’t mind if they fire Cronin / clune or any of them. But easy to justify bringing Clune back.

If he’s thought of as a good coaching prospect, you bring him back just as you would a Leo / Minty.

Tough to justify bringing him back if we were Edmonton, but results aren’t the only factor with the ducks yet.
 
please do not take this as my being aggressive or shit talking. And it’s a “universal you”.

The problem I see is you think it’s important whether or not we should be “pleased” with stats. I don’t think anyone is “pleased” with scoring the fewest goals in the NHL and having young players with middling - worse stats when it comes to NHL goals and assists.

Me personally, I feel like I have a grasp on how the Ducks org is trying to develop players. Specifically those at the NHL level, whom have been thrusted into positions they aren’t physically mature (maybe even mentally mature) enough to handle.

Since I feel like I know their “idea” for developing prospects + my inability to change their plan, it creates a level of acceptance and understanding that allows for me to go…..

Cronin isn’t the right coach to lead us to a ship. But, Verbeek hired him to develop these young players into NHL major pcs. Barring a collapse he will not fire him and he will be brought back to start next season. (Unless he has is successor already lined up and that man is available / Cronin was on a 2 year contract / etc). Verbeek and co must have access to things I do not to give a full birdseye view of this rebuild. I’d assume the leash would be pretty short next year, as one where some real expectations are in play. And I’m fine with giving Cronin one more bad stretch of awful analytics + awful game results before firing him into the sun. You don’t have to agree with me, but injuries hurt him year 1 / year 2 advanced analytics sucks, but winning in the NHL is hard, and he is doing it. Goalies or not, we have 2 horses and neither of them have to be run into the ground. You rely on your best players to win games, the ducks best players are their two goalies.

I think culture change was a huge reason Cronin was hired, and team over self seems to be a big component on championship caliber teams, and seems to be an identity we are forming. As they mature hopefully their kids play rises to levels near elite in the NHL and that + sacrificing …. Body / mind / soul for everyone in the locker leads to us being a wagon.

That being said, conversations about what’s wrong with Leo / Cronin are all fine. I do always laugh at the people complaining about like “he lacks confidence” but then at the same time kind of scoff at the, hey these kids aren’t physically mature enough to handle this intensity / etc ….. the development is to individualize specific plans to develop skill / awareness / strength …. Which like gives people confidence.

So just once again “pleased” ? No. But like instead of looking at Leo’s pt total, watch his board battle play, which since I don’t know how to find advanced stats for that, he seems to be winning more of them than the beginning of the year. If the numbers reflect my eye test, well then yes I would say we should be pleased that the individual development plans might be working, with time.

Leo's board play, general defense, and even faceoffs are better. I'm not going to dispute that. But all of that can be developed with time a lot easier than offensive production/dominance. Leo has been better since the 4 Nations as playing for his country seems to have reset him mentally.

But my concern continues to be that all in focus on defense is neglecting the offensive upside of our youth core on a team that is struggling to score even at an average rate and in an NHL that is much higher scoring than in the last era. I'm all for working on our youth core's overall games so long as offensive development isn't being neglected. If we want to be contenders, we need at least one elite superstar forward and preferably at least one offensively potent top pair defenseman. LaCombe seems like he's on track to be that guy.

I hate referencing my local fandom because I know the VGK are pretty well hated around here but Jack Eichel is a perfect example of what I've been talking about. Eichel was the elite offensive forward Vegas needed to win a cup. His playmaking drove the majority of Vegas' offense en route to a cup.

When he arrived in Vegas, no one would call him a defensive liability but no one would call him a defensive stalwart either. Bruce Cassidy worked very hard with Eichel to foster his defensive play and I would argue that Eichel was Vegas' best defensive forward on that run on a team with Mark Stone and William Karlsson, while putting up league leading point totals. Eichel was 26 at the time and his defensive aptitude has carried over since then. His offensive talent was already there and developed. His defense was fostered later.

Is it more important that we develop Leo's defense now and end up with a solid second line defensive specialist center or should we be trying to maximize our chances that Leo becomes an elite first line superstar 1c and worry about the defense later? Is it more important to develop Cutter's defense now and end up with a goal scoring middle six two way guy or is it better to optimize our chances to end up with a top line complimentary sniper on the wing and worry about his all around game later?

I'm all for instilling better habits but our own coach said publicly that he's not focusing on offense because our kids' natural offensive talent will come out on its own organically. That to me, is the last straw of last straws. Unless his mentality and development approach changes, as far as I'm concerned, we are not developing our youth core properly. Especially considering the team's defense, on the whole, hasn't improved all that much in spite of the heavy emphasis on defensive improvement. In today's NHL, defensive strength derives from the strength of a 5 man system rather than individual defensive aptitude. Cro can work on individual defensive strengths all he wants, it won't count for shit if the 5 man defensive structure doesn't work.
 
I said a few games back that I didn’t even think this team was “good” yet so I don’t really care to respond to someone trying to argue a stance that I don’t even have. And if you’re going to say that I’m choosing to ignore underlying metrics and focusing on the improvement in the standings, I mean ok, I could just as easily say you’re being in denial by doing the reverse. Ultimately all I’ve said (and will continue to say if we play at this pace) is that I’m happy with the season and our improvement in the standings and I believe all personnel involved deserve to be back to see if they can continue to build on the improvements here. If you disagree or don’t think that’s a valid stance to have then I don’t know what to tell you

You are saying the standings are bringing up the play of the Ducks? It doesn't work that way. Production in games dictates the results for the standings.

1741113702821.png


We were out shot, lost a lot of FO battles, lost the Special Teams battle on a 3:1 goals against ratio, on the wrong side of the possession marker for both Corsi and Fenwick, on the wrong side of OZ Start %, and the PDO metric says we're far too lucky. If you cover up the result, GF, GA and PDO, then one wouldn't think we wouldn't have a winning record. All of these metrics point to the goalies as the reason for earning 11 points and the winning.

Just how good were our goalies? They limited the opponents to scoring two or fewer goals five times out of seven contests while the defense lost the SOG battle, allowing an average of 7 SOG Against more on our goalies (an average of 32 SOG Against per game) than we did theirs.

1741114757467.png


Where did the Ducks improve in the measly 7-game February sample? The goaltending went from great to exceptional in a few games where they posted over 0.950 Sv%. And what about Dostal's heroics in shutting out the Canucks after giving up a 2-0 lead in the first period?

It's a shame the lack of gratitude for our netminders being the significant factor for the improvement this year throughout the whole season.

Again, where the hell was this improvement on the team when Gibby was left out to dry in the March 1st blowout loss?
 

Attachments

  • 1741116076069.png
    1741116076069.png
    8.1 KB · Views: 1
Leo's board play, general defense, and even faceoffs are better. I'm not going to dispute that. But all of that can be developed with time a lot easier than offensive production/dominance. Leo has been better since the 4 Nations as playing for his country seems to have reset him mentally.

But my concern continues to be that all in focus on defense is neglecting the offensive upside of our youth core on a team that is struggling to score even at an average rate and in an NHL that is much higher scoring than in the last era. I'm all for working on our youth core's overall games so long as offensive development isn't being neglected. If we want to be contenders, we need at least one elite superstar forward and preferably at least one offensively potent top pair defenseman. LaCombe seems like he's on track to be that guy.

I hate referencing my local fandom because I know the VGK are pretty well hated around here but Jack Eichel is a perfect example of what I've been talking about. Eichel was the elite offensive forward Vegas needed to win a cup. His playmaking drove the majority of Vegas' offense en route to a cup.

When he arrived in Vegas, no one would call him a defensive liability but no one would call him a defensive stalwart either. Bruce Cassidy worked very hard with Eichel to foster his defensive play and I would argue that Eichel was Vegas' best defensive forward on that run on a team with Mark Stone and William Karlsson, while putting up league leading point totals. Eichel was 26 at the time and his defensive aptitude has carried over since then. His offensive talent was already there and developed. His defense was fostered later.

Is it more important that we develop Leo's defense now and end up with a solid second line defensive specialist center or should we be trying to maximize our chances that Leo becomes an elite first line superstar 1c and worry about the defense later? Is it more important to develop Cutter's defense now and end up with a goal scoring middle six two way guy or is it better to optimize our chances to end up with a top line complimentary sniper on the wing and worry about his all around game later?

I'm all for instilling better habits but our own coach said publicly that he's not focusing on offense because our kids' natural offensive talent will come out on its own organically. That to me, is the last straw of last straws. Unless his mentality and development approach changes, as far as I'm concerned, we are not developing our youth core properly. Especially considering the team's defense, on the whole, hasn't improved all that much in spite of the heavy emphasis on defensive improvement. In today's NHL, defensive strength derives from the strength of a 5 man system rather than individual defensive aptitude. Cro can work on individual defensive strengths all he wants, it won't count for shit if the 5 man defensive structure doesn't work.
I get the point you’re making, but really we don’t know what the best path forward is. You mention Eichel. Who was known for his offense only at Buffalo and couldn’t win there either. So left the offense only aspect turns you into Buffalo ? Is that a good benchmark for us to want to replicate.

I understand the need to develop and fence and defense. But let me ask you a question, would Steph Curry be a 25% shooter from 3 if his second year coach had him focus on the weight room + defensive responsibility ?

And my point is kinda tongue in cheek, but the argument you seem to be making is, Cronin and co are ONLY practicing defense and not just emphasizing + weight room as the keys to sustained long term success.

The HC may be focused on defense first philosophy as a cultural buy in point. But does that mean the player development coach isn’t working on net front tip drills / rebound drills / etc.

But like I said before, we can have conversations or situations and aspects people need to improve in their game. And we can blame Cronin for the lack of offensive explosion we’d like out of our young core.

But it seems Verbeek and co’s vision on how to properly develop players doesn’t align with yours. So you are in for a miserable time until progress happens (if it does at all).

Like I don’t want Cronin around for the next 20 years, but I haven’t lost any sleep over him being our coach. I’ve spelt out multiple times what I think our plan is (using Verbeek / Cronin / McIlvane interviews) …. Best case scenario everyone who took a step back this year takes a huge jump in their third year …. Z and McT also take jumps + PP and PK all clicking and we never look back. Do I think that happens ? No.

We let Cronin run it back, we probably have some injury bad luck / start off slow / go on a losing streak and fire him. This is the most likely option for how this ends.

Just everything Verbeek has said, seems he is okay with what Cronin is doing, which means it aligns with Verbeek’s plan. Which is better (IMHO) than aligning with your plan, because you can’t make any decisions that effect the team. If you were running the show, and had some sort of track record of being apart of successful franchises, and you fired Cronin, I would be like, well good, doesn’t seem like he was doing his job as a developmental coach, otherwise he wouldn’t have been fired.

And truly I’m not advocating for focus on defense this is the only way to develop players as they mature physically. It just seems like obviously the path we are on, and I don’t think 20 year old Leo Carlsson’s offensive potential is being ruined, much like Steph curry wouldn’t magically turn into a 25% 3pt shooter if his coaches preaches weight room and defense over offense his first couple years. Or if we want a close comp to hockey, would David Beckham suck at set pcs and free kicks because one of his first coaches tried to get him to play more defensively sound ? Would all his creativity be destroyed beyond repair ? I just don’t see it.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad