Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[robbieboy3686]

Crickets when we get run over and manhandled physically last night by a middling Calgary team

Srsly plz

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Agree, but this isn't exclusively on Cronin. He was hired and is being supported by Verbeek. Much grace needs to be given to young players who aren't producing points. Comparing Carlsson or others point totals to guys on other teams is useless. This system if focused on defending and suppresses offense. Saying Mintyukov and others are "slumping" isn't accurate. They are handcuffed by usage and this defense first system. Who knows if this will work but this is the plan. Implemented by Cronin, endorsed by Verbeek.

I agree in not giving Verbeek a pass. He ultimately owns what happens on the ice from compiling the roster to telling the coach how he wants them to play. But I wonder if something is somewhat lost in the translation between the two. I'm guessing that the answer to that question will be seen this summer when Cronin is either retained or not. I've never believed Cronin would be fired mid-season.

 

[MMC]

Crickets when we get run over and manhandled physically last night by a middling Calgary team

Didn’t watch

 

[ohcomeonref]

Didn’t watch

I'm jealous

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Crickets when we get run over and manhandled physically last night by a middling Calgary team

We got manhandled physically by an older more mature team whose most top scorers are 28-34 years old. But it wasn’t a 4-1 as whooping like the score looks.

Still outclassed but that is expected and if expectations were different we wouldn’t be a bottom 5 team in the league.

 

[Hey234]

Agree, but this isn't exclusively on Cronin. He was hired and is being supported by Verbeek. Much grace needs to be given to young players who aren't producing points. Comparing Carlsson or others point totals to guys on other teams is useless. This system if focused on defending and suppresses offense. Saying Mintyukov and others are "slumping" isn't accurate. They are handcuffed by usage and this defense first system. Who knows if this will work but this is the plan. Implemented by Cronin, endorsed by Verbeek.

But I don't think one has to mean the other. Verbeek can have the philosophy of defense first and offense comes from that. Cronin can too. But their approaches to that end goal can be different. It's possible that when speaking to Cronin, everything lines up for Verbeek. When he sees the game and looks at the numbers, it doesn't match. However, things take time, and you can see Verbeek holding on to the idea that this just takes time.

One thing to remember is that very early on, Verbeek scoffed at the idea of reflecting on his own work. It does give the impression of someone who finds these types of activities such as reflecting or therapy as pointless. People who think this way tend to not be the best leaders and very often make poor decisions.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

This is my new thinking re: Greg the Egg.

He was brought in to teach the players defensive skills/mindset and implement a defense-first system.

While he has failed at the latter, I think he may be having some success in the former and that's what Verbeek has been happy with. That said, I think he's completely clueless offensively, hence our team's production and the drop off of prospects like Leo and Z. Even during his time in the AHL, his team's offense was meh for 2 seasons, good for one season, and second-to-last another season.

I think the things he is working with players on (e.g. that "defending without a stick" drill) will come to fruition under a coach with a better system. They'll be little things that help the team win games.

 

[ohcomeonref]

We got manhandled physically by an older more mature team whose most top scorers are 28-34 years old. But it wasn’t a 4-1 as whooping like the score looks.

Still outclassed but that is expected and if expectations were different we wouldn’t be a bottom 5 team in the league.

You can paint it up any way you like, last night was an embarrassment.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

You can paint it up any way you like, last night was an embarrassment.

That’s fine, I thought we played an okay game. Embarrassed no one did anything when Minty got punched in the face, for sure !

Just when we fire Cronin and kids take the proper steps playing a better system and being more mature. It won’t be because Cronin is some idiot, it’s because this shitty “defense” first, individual development was his job.

That’s the only real point I want to make on this sub. When we take our steps with a new coach, everyone is going to be like …. See Cronin was the problem. In reality, it’s the fact that we have 5 guys 21 and younger playing meaningful minutes on this roster.

Or if they don’t take the step, then I will agree Cronin and Verbeek ruined them.

But if they take the step, I’m gonna be frustrated when it’s see Cronin was the problem (which he is hindering the offense), and pretend like this group of 19/20/21 year olds were ready to win in the NHL.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

That’s fine, I thought we played an okay game. Embarrassed no one did anything when Minty got punched in the face, for sure !

Just when we fire Cronin and kids take the proper steps playing a better system and being more mature. It won’t be because Cronin is some idiot, it’s because this shitty “defense” first, individual development was his job.

That’s the only real point I want to make on this sub. When we take our steps with a new coach, everyone is going to be like …. See Cronin was the problem. In reality, it’s the fact that we have 5 guys 21 and younger playing meaningful minutes on this roster.

Or if they don’t take the step, then I will agree Cronin and Verbeek ruined them.

But if they take the step, I’m gonna be frustrated when it’s see Cronin was the problem (which he is hindering the offense), and pretend like this group of 19/20/21 year olds were ready to win in the NHL.

Wow. You completely moved the goal post from a loss to "pretend like this group of 19/20/21 year olds were ready to win in the NHL."

This disillusion that the youths are playing great defense is false since our defense in front of our goalies aren't preventing scoring chances. Our goalies are the ones preventing scoring chances. We're worse as a team this year than last year. We lead the league in High Danger Scoring Chances Against (HDCA) this year with 544 at 5v5 play. Last year, we were the 7th worst team in HDCA with 769 opportunities at 5v5 play. This year's Corsi% is 45.63 (3rd worst) and last year was 46.39 (6th worst).

No one said anything about winning, except you. But we did see that Zegras' potent offense was stifled by Cronin. Terry and the rookies Z & Drysdale were helping to lead the way to playoff spot in 2021-22. In fact, when Verbeek took over during All-Star break, the Ducks were 3rd in the Pacific. Guess it was possible for the youth to have high offensive outputs in a rebuild season with a proper roster construction.

 

[ScarTroy]

It’s like f***ing Groundhog Day.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Wow. You completely moved the goal post from a loss to "pretend like this group of 19/20/21 year olds were ready to win in the NHL."

This disillusion that the youths are playing great defense is false since our defense in front of our goalies aren't preventing scoring chances. Our goalies are the ones preventing scoring chances. We're worse as a team this year than last year. We lead the league in High Danger Scoring Chances Against (HDCA) this year with 544 at 5v5 play. Last year, we were the 7th worst team in HDCA with 769 opportunities at 5v5 play. This year's Corsi% is 45.63 (3rd worst) and last year was 46.39 (6th worst).

No one said anything about winning, except you. But we did see that Zegras' potent offense was stifled by Cronin. Terry and the rookies Z & Drysdale were helping to lead the way to playoff spot in 2021-22. In fact, when Verbeek took over during All-Star break, the Ducks were 3rd in the Pacific. Guess it was possible for the youth to have high offensive outputs in a rebuild season with a proper roster construction.

Dude I didn’t move a goalpost, I acknowledged how he felt about the game, then I said how I felt about the game.

Then I made a point about my overall frustration on the shitting on Cronin everyday. And my point is I don’t think he’s a good coach, but we aren’t winning with any coach with our players sooooo young and physically immature. We got punked last night and it shows.

I’ve made case after case why I think Cronin is here in Verbeek’s mind. To mold the team into a physical strong fast team. And here I just said, it is going to be frustrating when Leo is 22 not 19 (turned 20) and everyone is like ahhh look this is development….. and totally bypass anything Cronin did (if he has done this) in terms of work ethic / being a professional / individual development.

Just because his system sucks, no offense, doesn’t mean he’s not doing the job Verbeek hired him to do. Since we don’t know, exactly what that is, I am on the train saying it’s individual development that eventually leads to team wins and stats. I choose to life my truth, because I think Verbeek deserves some faith, because he’s been apart of 2 rebuilds, this being his third. We have better draft capital than Detroit, similar to Tampa in terms of top 5 picks. Have found some possible 2nd and 3rd players that are trying to be developed in the AHL currently.

I just don’t think someone who watched a team draft and develop Brayden Point can not understand how to develop talent.

This is not me saying our rebuild is over, everyone is developing perfectly, we won’t have any missed prospects we fail or they fail to develop.

I’d just rather live in my world, one where I’ve shared plenty of videos, or have mentioned videos to watch …. Cronin and Verbeek’s interview with Alexis. McIlvane’s introduction, and his recent interview with Alexis.

And I listen to what they say, and I pick out the things they say, and I try to figure out what Verbeek’s longterm plan is.

I hope it would be safe to assume everyone on this sub is in agreement, we hope Verbeek cares more about where our team is 3-4 years from now than current day. Because if he cares more about current day, then we should have fired Cronin months ago, be playing Leo and cutter 20 minutes a night against other teams top lines. Should have rushed Zegras back from injury, and honestly if the new coach doesn’t get him to 80 pts a game should trade him for immediate help. If Leo’s struggles continue, trade him too.

This is all hyperbole to say, I assume it’s fair to say when Leo is 23-30 should be our attempted stanley cup window.

I hope Verbeek has a plan to make that come to light, I have ?’s on what’s going on, but I have spelt out possible reasons for why certain things may be happening.

Sadly without being in the locker room, or without Verbeek coming out and spelling out his entire plan to the world (which he shouldn’t since he has 31 other teams trying to stop him to some extent). I have to make conclusions based on snippets of interviews and things of that nature.

Fire Cronin today, I don’t care. I just also think if he hasn’t been fired Verbeek thinks he is doing his job. Since we don’t know what he was truly “hired” to do, I’m gonna have to assume Verbeek is at least somewhat please. And I know first coach, gets longer leash, his shelf life as gm = 2 -3 coaches. All play a factor into this.

Our team is trying to be competitive when OC vibe is up and running and Leo is around 23. If you try to look at the team through that lens, it helps not be angry all the time about the direction of this franchise.

 

[Gliff]

So I figured it out guys. PV brought in Cronin knowing he would hurt development, so he could lock all the kids up long term on good deals, then he is going to bring in a good coach. It all makes sense.

 

[Hey234]

From an article yesterday but The Hockey News:

Cronin

"I think they're progressing fine. You obviously attach stats to progression. I understand that. It's a logical assumption they should have more points or the progression is measured by point totals," Cronin said when asked for his response to the underwhelming production. "It's a rebuild and you're developing players and they're trying to learn to play on both sides of the puck. When that happens, there's going to be an attention to playing defense as well. I think our guys, through the eyes of a coach, our guys are developing well. I think their habits have become increasingly better. One of the things you'll hear a lot of coaches talk about is that you win games on defense. Usually, when you establish those defensive habits, it takes time. When they do that in a natural way, their offensive game will take off.

I don't think anybody that's an intelligent hockey person wouldn't recognize that Trevor Zegras' game on both sides of the puck has changed dramatically in the last six months, a year, whatever it's been," Cronin said. "I think he'll say it himself and for me, that's a reflection of how hard the coaching staff is working to get these guys to play a balanced game"

"Everybody points to Jackson LaCombe. Well, Jackson LaCombe is a couple years older than (Pavel) Mintyukov and (Olen) Zellweger and (Tristan) Luneau," Cronin said. "That's Mother Nature's dial turning that one. He's two years older than those guys and had a good, really good college career. There's a level of maturity, physically and mentally, that he's got an advantage on the younger guys. He's had a massive improvement. A lot of that is mental and comfort level with the NHL."

Player	2023-24 Points Per Game (Goals-Assists=Points, GP)	2024-25 Points Per Game (Goals-Assists=Points, GP)
Leo Carlsson	.53 (12-17=29, 55)	.36 (9-7=16, 45)
Mason McTavish	.66 (19-23=42, 64)	.58 (12-14=26, 45)
Cutter Gauthier	NCAA	.41 (8-13=21, 51)
Trevor Zegras	.48 (6-9=15, 31)	.45 (5-8=13, 29)
Jackson LaCombe	.24 (2-15=17, 71)	.55 (9-15=24, 44)
Pavel Mintyukov	.44 (4-24=28, 63)	.26 (4-7=11, 43)
Olen Zellweger	.35 (2-7=9, 26)	.32 (4-8=12, 38)
Drew Helleson	AHL	.28 (2-5=7, 25

 

[Hockey Duckie]

From an article yesterday but The Hockey News:

Cronin

Player	2023-24 Points Per Game (Goals-Assists=Points, GP)	2024-25 Points Per Game (Goals-Assists=Points, GP)
Leo Carlsson	.53 (12-17=29, 55)	.36 (9-7=16, 45)
Mason McTavish	.66 (19-23=42, 64)	.58 (12-14=26, 45)
Cutter Gauthier	NCAA	.41 (8-13=21, 51)
Trevor Zegras	.48 (6-9=15, 31)	.45 (5-8=13, 29)
Jackson LaCombe	.24 (2-15=17, 71)	.55 (9-15=24, 44)
Pavel Mintyukov	.44 (4-24=28, 63)	.26 (4-7=11, 43)
Olen Zellweger	.35 (2-7=9, 26)	.32 (4-8=12, 38)
Drew Helleson	AHL	.28 (2-5=7, 25

Weird. The stats on the table doesn't show on your post for me, but when I'm replying, it does show. I've stopped copying & pasting any complicated excel chart until the migration is over with. If you're using a PC, you can use "windows button + shift + s" to screen grab, use your cursor to crop the image you want copied, and then "ctrl + v" to paste.

Just in case others cannot see it, I'll post up the THN table with some added columns: CF% and difference columns. CF% measures shots for and against when a player is on the ice. A negative CF% means there are more shots against than for, implying playing more on the defensive side than offensive side of the ice.

---

Reading Cronin's comments on LaCombe, it is like he's saying LaCombe didn't need much developing, but rather adjustment and refinement at the NHL level of play.

Although Cronin preaches learning to play both sides of the ice, he really isn't. His primary focus is defense and then the offense can eventually come later. Looking at the CF% differences between the two seasons, a lot of the youths have taken steps backwards in order to learn to play more defense. Maybe playing more offense is another way of playing defense since the opponents don't have the puck?

 

[Mr Rogers]

One of the things that’s been the most surprising to me about Cronin is that he is so defensive-oriented. Coming from the Avs org I was expecting him to be more offense-first. But then I thought well he didn’t really coach Mackinnon, Makar, rantanen any of those guys etc

 

[snowave]

But... "Offense sells tickets, Defense wins championships"

Bear Bryant.... (asshole ).

 

[Hockey Duckie]

From the recent Silverberg interview where he commented on Cronin, here's bit about Silf unable to turn the offensive switch on (for the World Championships) b/c he was trained to play defense:

Jakob smiles as he tells the story.​

​

– That was a real wake-up call for me. I had one year left with Anaheim and we had decided to go home. I thought: if I’m going home to Sweden, it will be with expectations, I have to make a real push and show some f***ing embrace to turn this around.”​

​

But how could it turn out like it did in the World Cup?​

​

– I know damn well, actually. I think I was a little mentally broken. We had missed the playoffs several years in a row. I had had a defensive role in Anaheim, where I just played simply: one touch, edge out – not offensive. I couldn’t switch to the WC. I wanted to contribute more offensively, but had a hard time getting into situations and the puck wasn’t bouncing my way.​

Silf's +4 rating was one of four players with + rating who played double digit games for the Ducks last year. He only played for Cronin for one season and it affected his ability to tap into an offensive mindset for the WC.

 

[Hey234]

More quotes from Cronin on The Hockey News:

“Honestly, Zelly is terrific,” Cronin said. “He doesn't have to do anything (to get back into the lineup). He does everything 100%. I think some of you guys might have asked the question, ‘Do you think his game has lost some continuity and rhythm because he's been in lineup?’ I think that's true. You can practice all you want, the game has an entirely different complexion to it. He’s been in this rotation, now he's on the sidelines. It’s not healthy for his game. What he was up against is that we were winning and it's hard to change a winning lineup, particularly when we’re winning so convincingly, right? So, we've got to get together and figure out what's the best way to get him back in, because I think he's a valuable player.”

On Leason:

“When he's skating well and he's handling the puck well, he's a unique player because he can go up and down the lineup,” Cronin said. “You've seen him on the first line, on the fourth line. When he has an edge to his game and there's a purpose and a drive to his game, almost a desperation, he's an impact player.”

 

[Mr Rogers]

Zell can’t get in the lineup because they’ve been winning? A lot of it had to do with the goaltenders they were playing, not how well they played defensively, which actually wasn’t great. They would’ve won with him in as well, perhaps by even bigger margins.

 

[KelVarnsen]

So the guy who can put him in the lineup says we need to find a way to get him in the game? WTF? Sometimes when he speaks, I get the feeling his general level of intelligence isn’t that great. Not Forest Gump style but nowhere near very smart generally. He doesn’t even realize how dumb he sounds with some of the things he says.

Sit Helleson. He has fallen off a bit IMO and shouldn’t be playing just because he is right handed.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

On Leason:

This love fest with Leason needs to end sooner or later.

 

[Ducks DVM]

That’s fine, I thought we played an okay game. Embarrassed no one did anything when Minty got punched in the face, for sure !

Just when we fire Cronin and kids take the proper steps playing a better system and being more mature. It won’t be because Cronin is some idiot, it’s because this shitty “defense” first, individual development was his job.

That’s the only real point I want to make on this sub. When we take our steps with a new coach, everyone is going to be like …. See Cronin was the problem. In reality, it’s the fact that we have 5 guys 21 and younger playing meaningful minutes on this roster.

Or if they don’t take the step, then I will agree Cronin and Verbeek ruined them.

But if they take the step, I’m gonna be frustrated when it’s see Cronin was the problem (which he is hindering the offense), and pretend like this group of 19/20/21 year olds were ready to win in the NHL.

Plenty of coaches can teach defense while simultaneously not crushing the offense, and/or tailoring their offense to the actual skill sets of the players he’s coaching. It’s possible for Cronin to be building the foundations of future defensive success while simultaneously being the reason we are losing.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Zell can’t get in the lineup because they’ve been winning? A lot of it had to do with the goaltenders they were playing, not how well they played defensively, which actually wasn’t great. They would’ve won with him in as well, perhaps by even bigger margins.

Winning 3 games in a row with 5+ goals for usually results in zero roster changes. Can’t fault a coach for not allowing the team to get familiar and comfortable with their line mates, then also fault them when they won’t make a roster change when the team is clicking.

I am not a Cronin fan, but this isn’t the type of thing that deserves criticism.

Side note, I feel like the last stretch of wins was also with Zelleweger in the press box, because I recall I was joking about it.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Run 7 D for a while. Zel would be more productive than Leason even as a d-man.