Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[robbieboy3686]

As crazy as it sounds, I don’t think even a long losing skid would do it. I think he’s a lot safer than it’d seem or that we wish lol. I also don’t see this team going on an extended losing skid - they always seem to win a few games and make us think they’ve figured something out.

If we aren’t playing meaningful games in March. Cronin and the entire staff is fired. I’ll die on this hill. Verbeek gets a get out of jail and wait and see 2 more seasons card in doing so. If he keeps Cronin, and the ducks suck again next season, they both then get fired. Very simple meta

 

[Firequacker]

Honestly, the fact that Cronin feels comfortable coming out and saying essentially "yep, I'm trying to force square pegs into round holes until I grind them into circles" might be the most disheartening thing yet this season.

If he's not on the same page with Verbeek those comments should rightfully get him fired immediately. They haven't, so presumably they're on the same page. But if he is on the same page with Verbeek it raises a lot of questions about what Verbeek is doing. He's the guy that built the roster. I don't care whose draft picks they were, at this point every single player on this roster is here because Verbeek wants him here.

If it's only about waiting for the players they have to be physically ready, why would you not come up with a system that plays to the roster's strengths for now rather than wasting years of on-ice development demanding they do things they physically cannot do yet? Regardless of the reasoning, if Cronin already knew the way he was going to try to insist on this team playing no matter what the roster's strengths are, what exactly was the point of that 20-game observation period? Why, again, are we using the NHL as a development league in the first place? That was all bad enough before seeing the coach openly acknowledge the team is not built for the way he wants them to play.

 

[JAHV]

Honestly, the fact that Cronin feels comfortable coming out and saying essentially "yep, I'm trying to force square pegs into round holes until I grind them into circles" might be the most disheartening thing yet this season.

If he's not on the same page with Verbeek those comments should rightfully get him fired immediately. They haven't, so presumably they're on the same page. But if he is on the same page with Verbeek it raises a lot of questions about what Verbeek is doing. He's the guy that built the roster. I don't care whose draft picks they were, at this point every single player on this roster is here because Verbeek wants him here.

If it's only about waiting for the players they have to be physically ready, why would you not come up with a system that plays to the roster's strengths for now rather than wasting years of on-ice development demanding they do things they physically cannot do yet? Regardless of the reasoning, if Cronin already knew the way he was going to try to insist on this team playing no matter what the roster's strengths are, what exactly was the point of that 20-game observation period? Why, again, are we using the NHL as a development league in the first place? That was all bad enough before seeing the coach openly acknowledge the team is not built for the way he wants them to play.

Answering the bolded: to do otherwise would be worse. If management and the coaching staff has identified a style and tactical method to play that they feel is most conducive to long-term success, than they need to enforce that style, even if the players aren't ready to succeed at it yet. That's part of the learning and development process. If they were to implement an easier strategy that the youth can handle now, the team might win a bit more in the short-term, but the risk is that they don't develop the skills needed to succeed in the playoffs in a couple years.

There's a line to walk here, and the team is trying to walk that line carefully. Verbeek's tasked Cronin with instilling the work habits necessary to develop those skills and succeed at those tactics. They're not going to do that right away. If it works, it's going to be ugly in the short run but will lead to Cup contention, which is what everyone wants. The risk is that players get disillusioned with the struggle and lose motivation to keep working on those things. The risk is also that some players may never be able to play the way Verbeek wants them to play; those players will eventually need to be moved for others, and will look pretty bad in the meantime.

I don't know if the implementation is going well or if Verbeek has correctly identified the proper skills and tactics, or if Cronin is the right guy to teach them. But the plan and the theory behind it is sound.

 

[Mr Rogers]

If we aren’t playing meaningful games in March. Cronin and the entire staff is fired. I’ll die on this hill. Verbeek gets a get out of jail and wait and see 2 more seasons card in doing so. If he keeps Cronin, and the ducks suck again next season, they both then get fired. Very simple meta

I just don’t think Verbeek is anywhere near being in trouble yet.

 

[SoCal Dreaming]

Part of the problem was that some prospects were rushed in to NHL. Thats Zegras, McTavish and Leo. Based on the comments, they had to learn or taught board battles and protecting pucks in the offensive zone. May be the reason why Cronin was hired by PV. But that's also the fault of PV with roster construction or inability to sign FAs. So he could have been forced to use NHL to develop them instead of his initial notion of overippen prospects.

The prospects that are making steps and progress now are all older and physically matured such as Lacombe and Helleson.

The league is a copy league from previous Champs. That's why Cronin refers to Tampa and Florida about board battles. They believe it's needed for playoffs type games.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Honestly, the fact that Cronin feels comfortable coming out and saying essentially "yep, I'm trying to force square pegs into round holes until I grind them into circles" might be the most disheartening thing yet this season.

If he's not on the same page with Verbeek those comments should rightfully get him fired immediately. They haven't, so presumably they're on the same page. But if he is on the same page with Verbeek it raises a lot of questions about what Verbeek is doing. He's the guy that built the roster. I don't care whose draft picks they were, at this point every single player on this roster is here because Verbeek wants him here.

If it's only about waiting for the players they have to be physically ready, why would you not come up with a system that plays to the roster's strengths for now rather than wasting years of on-ice development demanding they do things they physically cannot do yet? Regardless of the reasoning, if Cronin already knew the way he was going to try to insist on this team playing no matter what the roster's strengths are, what exactly was the point of that 20-game observation period? Why, again, are we using the NHL as a development league in the first place? That was all bad enough before seeing the coach openly acknowledge the team is not built for the way he wants them to play.

After the season ended last year, Verbeek cited he was happy with Cronin and the direction of the team. I was perplexed because with the influx of more talented players in Cronin's first year and seeing the vast improvement in GA as well as GD, then how was it that Cronin earning only one more point than Eakins would be considered a success? That should have given us a reframe on what makes Verbeek content along with what he feels is making the team better - which is to mold a square peg into a round hole via "culture".

I gave the heads up on this board way back then, but far too many people came up with a myriad of excuses b/c none wanted to believe anyone could be worse than Eakins.

We're in year 2 of Cronin and the same pattern re-emerges: good GA and putrid offense. The team has earned more points this year than last year at the 46-game mark, but many of those extra points (if not more) are due to our top-end goaltending. The team also hit .500 early in the season. These improvements are things Verbeek can point to as success for Cronin. The success of LaCombe in year 2 probably also lends to the thought that our youths just need more time to develop. Therein lies the problem: LaCombe was a mostly finished product before going pro due to four years development in college. He needed a season to adapt. Minty, Zell, and Helleson are in a constant rotation to get onto the ice this season.

Anaheim has accrued four top-9 drafted forwards in the draft who are already on the team and only one top-10 drafted d-man on the club. Three of the four top-9 drafted forwards are still perimeter players. The Ducks' org are not playing to the strengths of talent on the team nor is the construction conducive to masking our perimeter youth forwards.

I'll keep on saying it, "Cronin is Verbeek's avatar on the bench." Verbeek cannot do any wrong, as we've discovered with his reaction to Lisa Dillman's question to Verbeek of self-evaluation after Eakins was fired.

---

Why is the NHL level our development level?

Verbeek wants to shorten the rebuild time by rushing youths to the NHL level.

Although, Verbeek misjudges his talent evaluations as well as misjudges his own competency to develop talents with his novel workload mgmt. Only LaCombe has improved In year 2 of the youth rush (Carlsson, Minty, Zell, and LaCombe). Fortunately and unfortunately, LaCombe had to go through some psychological help on his own over the summer. Even the older youths (Z and Mac) have taken steps back.

 

[robbieboy3686]

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After the season ended last year, Verbeek cited he was happy with Cronin and the direction of the team. I was perplexed because with the influx of more talented players in Cronin's first year and seeing the vast improvement in GA as well as GD, then how was it that Cronin earning only one more point than Eakins would be considered a success? That should have given us a reframe on what makes Verbeek content along with what he feels is making the team better - which is to mold a square peg into a round hole via "culture".

I gave the heads up on this board way back then, but far too many people came up with a myriad of excuses b/c none wanted to believe anyone could be worse than Eakins.

We're in year 2 of Cronin and the same pattern re-emerges: good GA and putrid offense. The team has earned more points this year than last year at the 46-game mark, but many of those extra points (if not more) are due to our top-end goaltending. The team also hit .500 early in the season. These improvements are things Verbeek can point to as success for Cronin. The success of LaCombe in year 2 probably also lends to the thought that our youths just need more time to develop. Therein lies the problem: LaCombe was a mostly finished product before going pro due to four years development in college. He needed a season to adapt. Minty, Zell, and Helleson are in a constant rotation to get onto the ice this season.

Anaheim has accrued four top-9 drafted forwards in the draft who are already on the team and only one top-10 drafted d-man on the club. Three of the four top-9 drafted forwards are still perimeter players. The Ducks' org are not playing to the strengths of talent on the team nor is the construction conducive to masking our perimeter youth forwards.

I'll keep on saying it, "Cronin is Verbeek's avatar on the bench." Verbeek cannot do any wrong, as we've discovered with his reaction to Lisa Dillman's question to Verbeek of self-evaluation after Eakins was fired.

---

Why is the NHL level our development level?

Verbeek wants to shorten the rebuild time by rushing youths to the NHL level.

Although, Verbeek misjudges his talent evaluations as well as misjudges his own competency to develop talents with his novel workload mgmt. Only LaCombe has improved In year 2 of the youth rush (Carlsson, Minty, Zell, and LaCombe). Fortunately and unfortunately, LaCombe had to go through some psychological help on his own over the summer. Even the older youths (Z and Mac) have taken steps back.

“ he said he was happy” yet e Friedman in an article last month “ verbeek said he was close to firing Cronin, but brought in a guy like clune to help him” clune heads a last place power play and it’s been like that all season. Thompson was like Cronin given an extra year and the penalty kill sucks ass. Our young forwards aren’t developing, we won’t be playing meaningful games in March. Unless some of you are trying to manifest Cronin another season… rest easy

 

[Bender66]

I know the system isn't an organic system because Z's offense got nullified under Cronin. We have had quite a few veterans for the past two seasons, including Terry in that group, to help mold the team in a specific direction.

From the tweet:

"We're a rush team. We haven't established an offensive zone, puck-possession personality yet." ​

​

"So, saying that, we need to get, I call it, 'a ground game', where we can get possession [and] we can keep the the puck in the offensive zone. We can give a sense of offensive energy throughout the game. It's a work in progress. ... It just hasn't become a natural part of our personality." ​

Our offensive strategy is based upon "offensive energy"? I don't think we need "defensive energy" because there is an actual strategy there, which is hope our goaltenders stand on their heads.

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What is funny about Cronin talking about being a rush team, or transitional team or counter team, is that was what Mac did best last year with Vatrano and Strome. Then Cronin changed Mac's play to do dump & chase this year, which even the CTP guys (Jake & Felix) also denoted in their podcast. The problem is the players around Mac don't play that same style, which leaves Mac on an island many times.

We aren't a rush team. We're a counter team b/c Cronin won't sacrifice the defense for offense.

I think this is what it all boils down to. Everything Cronin says there make sense, and its at least encouraging that he can identify the issue on offense.

But I think the issue right now is that they are so bad regaining possession in d zone that they get tired out and by time they have the puck, everyone is dead and they need a line change so the natural result is to dump it in safely and get a change. Thats why most of offense comes on counters when they can force turnover in neutral zone.
(i don't know what happend to the forum tags, my text is in bold for some reason lol)

 

[Firequacker]

Answering the bolded: to do otherwise would be worse. If management and the coaching staff has identified a style and tactical method to play that they feel is most conducive to long-term success, than they need to enforce that style, even if the players aren't ready to succeed at it yet. That's part of the learning and development process. If they were to implement an easier strategy that the youth can handle now, the team might win a bit more in the short-term, but the risk is that they don't develop the skills needed to succeed in the playoffs in a couple years.

There's a line to walk here, and the team is trying to walk that line carefully. Verbeek's tasked Cronin with instilling the work habits necessary to develop those skills and succeed at those tactics. They're not going to do that right away. If it works, it's going to be ugly in the short run but will lead to Cup contention, which is what everyone wants. The risk is that players get disillusioned with the struggle and lose motivation to keep working on those things. The risk is also that some players may never be able to play the way Verbeek wants them to play; those players will eventually need to be moved for others, and will look pretty bad in the meantime.

I don't know if the implementation is going well or if Verbeek has correctly identified the proper skills and tactics, or if Cronin is the right guy to teach them. But the plan and the theory behind it is sound.

That's well explained, thank you. And from the outside it's probably too early to tell about the risks you cited (like you say, it'll be ugly in the short term even if it works).
My concern was really more about injuries—like, it would make me look differently at the amount of injuries to young players in the last couple of seasons (and things like Minty seemingly playing injured even though we've heard nothing official about it). Though I freely admit that's a feelings argument—obviously I haven't actually gone back and looked at how many of the injuries might potentially be 'knowingly placed in a position they were physically unready for' versus 'crashed into a goalpost,' it just feels bad intuitively.

I will say that I didn't really read his comments as being about physical readiness, I kind of threw that question in because it was mentioned earlier. I interpreted him as mostly saying they haven't developed the confidence, which goes back to the square pegs in round holes issue. This team frequently plays like they're hesitant in an unintuitive system, and that's where I have the much bigger problem. If the team also believes the players aren't physically ready that's just adding to the "feels bad man" factor. But it does feel a bit less bad having read your take on it.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

“ he said he was happy” yet e Friedman in an article last month “ verbeek said he was close to firing Cronin, but brought in a guy like clune to help him” clune heads a last place power play and it’s been like that all season. Thompson was like Cronin given an extra year and the penalty kill sucks ass. Our young forwards aren’t developing, we won’t be playing meaningful games in March. Unless some of you are trying to manifest Cronin another season… rest easy

I don't understand what you're trying to convey?

Verbeek didn't fire Cronin over the summer. Verbeek still hasn't fired Cronin this year. The game play has been the same for both seasons.

No idea what PP Clune and PK Thompson have to do with Cronin. Verbeek hired Clune and Thompson to head their respective jobs. Verbeek should fire himself for those hires.

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Mar 11, 2024

Maybe Verbeek has had a change of heart "last month" in this Friedman article. I don't know anything about that article (would be nice to cite your source to validate it). But I do have video of Verbeek telling the STH what to expect next year in year 2 of the culture change.

"It's a process. It doesn't happen overnight. Frankly, for this group getting Greg Cronin, it's been culture shock. So they've been drinking water through a fire hose and that's been very difficult for them. Next year, they now are gonna understand the accountability part, they now are gonna understand strength and training part that's expected of them. And so for me, it's gonna be an easier transition there next year that now we can look to improve on things that we have weaknesses. Now we can make those weaknesses stronger. And now we grow as players and as a team on the ice."​

Here are Verbeek's words at the Migration event last year, on March 11, 2024, with full expectations of having Cronin for next season as they build off of that current season. In case the video doesn't start at the 19:25 mark, you can search by chapter labeled "Culture" on the video.

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April 24, 2024

NHL.com Ducks season recap

On Greg Cronin

I've got a super long time for Greg Cronin. Got a lot of respect for him. Very competitive, very passionate guy. Love his approach to life and his approach to our hockey team. I'm very happy with the job that he did this year. There were a lot of things that were positive. Guys had career years and we certainly improved our competitiveness, our work ethic and the overall culture has taken big strides. Do we still have work to do? Yes, we do, but overall I'm very happy from that aspect.​

 

[Leonardo87]

Thought this was interesting...

 

[Ducks DVM]

I’m not sure there is anything left that hasn’t already been said. I don’t think Webster has invented any new words to describe how bad this year has been managed.

At this point my season goal for the Ducks is to finish ahead of Nashville. After seeing how their big free agent splash blew up on them, I can’t imagine how much worse the season might have been for us if we overpaid for a couple more under-performing vets.

John

 

[Lord Flashheart]

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View attachment 964781

Wretched...