Terry Yake
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2013
- 28,162
- 16,798
yup. he was on the coaching staff in the inaugural season up until wilson left after 97
Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
I've been thinking about this more and the Sennecke pick gives me a lot of confidence that the Ducks are building for sustained success.
Especially when a 1st time GM is going into his 3rd season and he said he expects then to be close to the playoffs next year. It would have been very easy for him to take a guy that was more NHL ready to have the best chance of keeping himself employed longer.
Especially when a 1st time GM is going into his 3rd season and he said he expects then to be close to the playoffs next year. It would have been very easy for him to take a guy that was more NHL ready to have the best chance of keeping himself employed longer.
All Mighty
Registered User
Smirnov2Chistov
Fire Greg Cronin!
All hail King Derek..
Would Stephens ever be on top of this news release? (Probably not)
Would Stephens ever be on top of this news release? (Probably not)
Terry Yake
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2013
- 28,162
- 16,798
Dean Evason, just hired by the Jackets, seems like he would have been a good pick over Cronin for these in-between years IMO.
Of course he already had a job when we hired Cronin, which probably made him not even an option for us.
Of course he already had a job when we hired Cronin, which probably made him not even an option for us.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I still believe Verbeek wants McIlvane to be his NHL coach of the future, but his plans got delayed by a year due to contract issues with McIlvane's German club. Verbeek had secured a former assistant coach under McIlvane in Kris Sparre two seasons ago for the Gulls. That's why coach Sommer was a last minute hire. We didn't see tremendous growth in San Diego this past season, but we also didn't have a great roster either.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
That really doesn't mean too much to me unless Cronin starts showing that Verbeek has an knack for hiring good coaches. For now, I'd say the jury is still out.
Agreed on Pat teeing up McIlvane. Like Cronin and several of our players, this will be a big year for McIlvane.
Hamilton Bulldogs
Registered User
- Jan 11, 2022
- 4,177
- 5,933
Didn't really make a ton of roster additions, so might be difficult to really tell if hes decent or not.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,702
- 5,843
I'm a bit late on this one, but Hrkac being a pro scout in Tampa for the last 8 years is promising. Very much a fan of hiring staff from standout team.
AngelDuck
Rak 'em up
- Jun 16, 2012
- 23,701
- 18,065
I’m still not sure how anyone can critically and fairly judge Cronin after the injuries we had last season.
Trust me..I’ll be critical of him by mid-season if we’re still in the same spot
Trust me..I’ll be critical of him by mid-season if we’re still in the same spot
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Can't really use injury as an excuse when Eakins' last roster was also hit by mass injuries, but the roster talent sucked far worse.
2022-23 Injury chart (via InjuryViz)
| 2023-24 | Top-6 Forward | Talents | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player | Forward | GP | G | A | Pts |
| Zegras | 1 | 81 | 23 | 42 | 65 |
| Terry | 1 | 70 | 23 | 38 | 61 |
| Mac | 1 | 80 | 17 | 26 | 43 |
| Vatrano | 1 | 81 | 22 | 19 | 41 |
| Strome | 1 | 82 | 15 | 26 | 41 |
| Rico | 1 | 62 | 22 | 16 | 38 |
| Totals | 6 | 456 | 122 | 167 | 289 |
2023-24 Injury chart (via InjuryViz)
| 2023-24 | Top-6 Forward | Talents | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player | Forward | GP | G | A | Pts |
| Vatrano | 1 | 82 | 37 | 23 | 60 |
| Terry | 1 | 76 | 20 | 34 | 54 |
| Mac | 1 | 64 | 19 | 23 | 42 |
| Rico | 1 | 60 | 18 | 24 | 42 |
| Strome | 1 | 79 | 11 | 30 | 41 |
| Killorn | 1 | 63 | 18 | 18 | 36 |
| Carlsson | 1 | 55 | 12 | 17 | 29 |
| Zegras | 1 | 31 | 6 | 9 | 15 |
| Totals | 8 | 510 | 141 | 178 | 319 |
Despite the injuries, Cronin's roster had more top-6F talent on it. Those talents played more games as well as scored more goals, assists, and points than the 2022-23 Eakins' top-6F grouping. Cronin was given far more talent top-6F to be able to absorb injuries. He also was gifted far more defensive talent not only to absorb injuries, but to also trade away RD Drysdale for prospect Cutter Gauthier in early January, a month before the all-star break (see report card below for ES defensive proof). Drysdale only played in 10 games out of a total 39 eligible games before being traded.
======================================
Cronin's Report Card (improvements from last season)
======================================
- Report Card
- ES Offense =
(21 fewer goals)
- ES Defense =
(improved by 53 fewer goals allowed)
- PP Goals =
(+7 PP goals)
- PK Goals Against =
(allowed 13 more PK goals against)
- PK Opp Against =
(allowed 50 more opportunities being short-handed)
- Record =
(only 1 point better than last season)
- 1-goal games =
Ducks 1g Games Season 1g Games W L OTL Pts Pct of Games Point Share Win Pct 2021-22 38 13 11 14 40 46.3%52.6%34.2%2022-23 33 14 7 12 40 40.2%60.6%42.4%2023-24 30 13125 31 36.6%51.7%43.3%
- ES Offense =
Cronin was gifted with far more talent depth, but relied a lot on that talent to produce. Whereas with Eakins, his less talented team clawed up ways to find points. If Cronin's team didn't beat Vegas in the last game of the season, then Cronin would have produced one less point than Eakins' club. ::: shuddering :::
Every time you post this I’m going to ask, how many games did Cronin actually get to use that extra top-6 talent, and what was our record in those games? You have dodged this multiple times, but Eakins missing Grant vs Cronin missing Zegras, McTavish, Carlsson (for multiple reasons), Killorn are not equal in the slightest. Cronin did not have utilization of a better top 6 for more than what, 15 games? And I know you know what our record looked like in those.Can't really use injury as an excuse when Eakins' last roster was also hit by mass injuries, but the roster talent sucked far worse.
2022-23 Injury chart (via InjuryViz)
View attachment 896572
2023-24 Top-6 Forward Talents Player Forward GP G A Pts Zegras Terry Mac Vatrano Strome Rico Totals
2023-24 Injury chart (via InjuryViz)
View attachment 896573
*Note: Rico was traded away at the TDL.
2023-24 Top-6 Forward Talents Player Forward GP G A Pts Vatrano Terry Mac Rico Strome Killorn Carlsson Zegras Totals
Despite the injuries, Cronin's roster had more top-6F talent on it. Those talents played more games as well as scored more goals, assists, and points than the 2022-23 Eakins' top-6F grouping. Cronin was given far more talent top-6F to be able to absorb injuries. He also was gifted far more defensive talent not only to absorb injuries, but to also trade away RD Drysdale for prospect Cutter Gauthier in early January, a month before the all-star break (see report card below for ES defensive proof). Drysdale only played in 10 games out of a total 39 eligible games before being traded.
======================================
Cronin's Report Card (improvements from last season)
======================================
- Report Card
- ES Offense =
(21 fewer goals)
- ES Defense =
(improved by 53 fewer goals allowed)
- PP Goals =
(+7 PP goals)
- PK Goals Against =
(allowed 13 more PK goals against)
- PK Opp Against =
(allowed 50 more opportunities being short-handed)
- Record =
(only 1 point better than last season)
- 1-goal games =
Ducks 1g Games Season 1g Games W L OTL Pts Pct of Games Point Share Win Pct 2021-22 38 13 11 14 40 2022-23 33 14 7 12 40 2023-24 30 5 31
Cronin was gifted with far more talent depth, but relied a lot on that talent to produce. Whereas with Eakins, his less talented team clawed up ways to find points. If Cronin's team didn't beat Vegas in the last game of the season, then Cronin would have produced one less point than Eakins' club. ::: shuddering :::
Eakins got a healthy Zegras and a pre-baby Terry, that’s more than Cronin got to work with this year. Whether that is self inflicted because his practices are too intense remains to be seen, but you keep trying to spin this narrative that Eakins did equal with less, which is flat out wrong.
Last edited:
Firequacker
used wall of text! It's not very effective...
- Jun 3, 2022
- 321
- 648
One injury-plagued year is not enough to judge him as a whole, but we can fairly look at how he reacted to the adversity of the season and judge him on that. The repeated "I just don't know what to do" postgame whining. The ridiculous "let's have a full practice on the same day of a game" training camp, which looks like an even worse idea after seeing how injuries derailed the season (obviously I'm not saying they're definitely related, but it's kind of hard not to wonder). The team's penalty and discipline issues that never seemed to improve even a little bit, the seeming double standards... there was a lot to dislike beyond the record.
I think that at least for some of us, if he'd lost the same number of games but looked less clueless doing so, we'd give him a lot more benefit of the doubt.
Are you seriously running back the 'Eakins was affected just as badly by injuries' thing again? He was absolutely not, and no amount of repeating 'look, I added two more guys to the top six and the numbers went up, therefore the injuries didn't matter!' will make it so.Can't really use injury as an excuse when Eakins' last roster was also hit by mass injuries, but the roster talent sucked far worse.
2022-23 Injury chart (via InjuryViz)
View attachment 896572
2023-24 Top-6 Forward Talents Player Forward GP G A Pts Zegras Terry Mac Vatrano Strome Rico Totals
2023-24 Injury chart (via InjuryViz)
View attachment 896573
*Note: Rico was traded away at the TDL.
2023-24 Top-6 Forward Talents Player Forward GP G A Pts Vatrano Terry Mac Rico Strome Killorn Carlsson Zegras Totals
Despite the injuries, Cronin's roster had more top-6F talent on it. Those talents played more games as well as scored more goals, assists, and points than the 2022-23 Eakins' top-6F grouping. Cronin was given far more talent top-6F to be able to absorb injuries. He also was gifted far more defensive talent not only to absorb injuries, but to also trade away RD Drysdale for prospect Cutter Gauthier in early January, a month before the all-star break (see report card below for ES defensive proof). Drysdale only played in 10 games out of a total 39 eligible games before being traded.
======================================
Cronin's Report Card (improvements from last season)
======================================
- Report Card
- ES Offense =
(21 fewer goals)- ES Defense =
(improved by 53 fewer goals allowed)- PP Goals =
(+7 PP goals)- PK Goals Against =
(allowed 13 more PK goals against)- PK Opp Against =
(allowed 50 more opportunities being short-handed)- Record =
(only 1 point better than last season)- 1-goal games =
Ducks 1g Games Season 1g Games W L OTL Pts Pct of Games Point Share Win Pct 2021-22 38 13 11 14 40 2022-23 33 14 7 12 40 2023-24 30 5 31
Cronin was gifted with far more talent depth, but relied a lot on that talent to produce. Whereas with Eakins, his less talented team clawed up ways to find points. If Cronin's team didn't beat Vegas in the last game of the season, then Cronin would have produced one less point than Eakins' club. ::: shuddering :::
You were presented with an extensive rebuttal, based on facts and logic, the last time you made this spurious argument. You ignored it in favor of an extended back and forth with the guy who called you a fruitcake, all the while complaining that nobody else cares about facts. And yet here you are, once again pretending that Cronin had superior talent depth because you arbitrarily turned the top six into the top eight while ignoring the actual depth players.
Compare like with like. Eakins had one significant top six injury. One. (Honestly, we can pretend Terry missing two weeks was long term and it still doesn't change the point, he missed similar time this year without even touching on his regression) The rest of Eakins' long term forward injuries were to the bottom six, which still significantly outperformed this year's edition. Nearly every plausible top eight configuration that year outscored this year's top eight. Jayson f***ing Megna outscored 2/3 of Cronin's 4C options (combined!) and you want to talk about Cronin's better talent depth. No, Cronin had a vastly more top-heavy roster and the guys at the top of it got hurt a lot more. It went predictably badly.
There are plenty of good arguments about how poorly Cronin handled this past season. "But Eakins had injuries too!" is a bad one, and it will not get better no matter how many times you repeat it. You can do better than this.
I feel like I've seen us sign a handful of Gulls players, they are just all announced under one tweet.
Right now the Gulls' site lists a total of 7 players on the roster (kind of strange) but four of them are new players, including veteran D-men in Heatherington and McKeown, which I think is something the Gulls sorely needed.
MMC
Global Moderator
The only players listed here are the players signed to AHL contracts, everyone else won't be until they're assigned there over the course of camp
Some optics did not look promising. Way too often he said he had no clue of what the team was doing or similar phrases.
But I'm willing go give him another go, hopefully for a full and healthy season
KelVarnsen
Registered User
This is one of my biggest issues with him. He appeared clueless to me towards the end of the year during interviews.
I also question the timing of some of his full practices but his interviews really rubbed me wrong because it appeared we had a bumbling idiot for a coach.
Of course PV is an awkward f*** so Cronin being weird in interviews should be expected lol.
Judging a coach on the way he gives postgame interviews is like judging an astronaut based on the way he poops in space. Sure, it's technically part of the job, but not at all important. Some people just don't do well at extemporaneous speaking. Maybe Cronin could be better at spouting meaningless cliches, since that's what 98% of coaches do, or he could make everyone chuckle by dropping f-bombs, but it wouldn't change anything.
I do think it's fair to judge the seeming lack of progression from the team throughout the season. Like others, though, I'd like to see what Cronin will do with a roster that's both a little bit healthier and older, and knows what to expect from training camp. If the same problems are plaguing the team by New Year's (lack of discipline, inability to break the puck out, squelching of offensive talent), then I think it will be clearer that Cronin isn't the answer.
I do think it's fair to judge the seeming lack of progression from the team throughout the season. Like others, though, I'd like to see what Cronin will do with a roster that's both a little bit healthier and older, and knows what to expect from training camp. If the same problems are plaguing the team by New Year's (lack of discipline, inability to break the puck out, squelching of offensive talent), then I think it will be clearer that Cronin isn't the answer.
SmokeyDuck
Registered User
People are far too concerned with words over action in my experience. They just want to be sweet talked.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
| Ducks | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Season | Coach | Games | W | L | OTL | Pts | Pts Pct | GF | GA | GD | |
| 2022-23 | Eakins | 82 | 23 | 47 | 12 | 58 | 35.4% | 206 | 335 | -129 | |
| 2023-24 | Cronin | 82 | 27 | 50 | 5 | 59 | 36.0% | 203 | 293 | -90 | |
| Difference | Cronin - | Eakins | 4 | 3 | -7 | 1 | 0.0061 | | -3 | -42 | 39 |
| Ducks | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Season | 1g Games | W | L | OTL | Pts | Pct of Games | Point Share | ||
| 2022-23 | 33 | 14 | 7 | 12 | 40 | 40.2% | 60.6% | ||
| 2023-24 | 30 | 13 | 12 | 5 | 31 | 36.6% | 51.7% |
Who's doing the lifting, the coach/system or the players? That's the question you are willingly avoiding to answer.
Cronin's group dipped in scoring by a little, but massively improved the defense (GA). So why is the Cronin team only 1 point better? Both teams incurred mass injuries. Despite thinking Grant's talent is nothing, adding Grant back into the lineup would actually improve Eakins' record.
Cronin's top-6 (which was actually was 8 players in depth) still produced more games played, goals, assists, and points than Eakins' top-6. A better top-6F production and vastly better defensive output could only net 1 more team point from the previous season. Which prompted GM Verbeek to say he needed a better bottom-6 to produce more offense.
From The Hockey News (Patrick Present), Mar 14, 2024:
Grant isn't a top-6F, but he does help out in the bottom-6 to make a difference. The fact Eakins' top-6F and defense roster was worse, but Cronin could only do 1 team point better in spite of a +39 goal differential, points to Cronin's system isn't great and/or relies a lot on talent available.
I dunno how you constantly omit how the defense vastly improved for Cronin, but that defensive effort was wasted in these conversation. We were more involved in 1-goal games under Eakins than Cronin and generated more points in those 1-goal games. Eakins did more with far less. Cronin did less with more. My hopes are that Cronin can become more flexible offensively by matching offensive strategy to personnel talent as well as put more of the blame on himself than throw his players under the bus often.
Cronin seems very slow to adapt to what doesn't work. That, and how he self-admitted to treating zegras different than any other player are not hallmarks of a great coach. Even a good one.
Eakins was bad at X's and O's but at least he connected with players. Can anyone show me how Cronin is tactically better?
Improving defense doesn’t result in wins if you don’t have the forward talent to outscore your still shit defense. And Cronin didn’t have access to the forward talent to overcome it. When he had access to an improved top 6, we did outscore it, as you can see looking at our record, and when those guys were injured we didn’t. Our abysmal bottom 6 didn’t help, which you acknowledged, and Verbeek has also planned to address.
Eakins benefited from loser points in OT, as well as more OT wins. Eakins had 1 less OT win than Cronin had OT games total. Is it really far fetched to think that with Zegras in the lineup, and a bottom 6 that isn’t full of literal plugs other than Leason and Silf, that maybe we make it to a few more OT’s? Even those guys I’m mentioning as positives in the bottom 6 weren’t really helping in the offensive end other than Leason marginally.
I’m not here to ball-wash Cronin, I think he has major flaws, but I also want to see how he can do with a healthier lineup, and a bottom 6 that has a 4th line that can score more than a combined 17 points.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
"Improving defense doesn't result in wins if you don't have the forward talent to outscore your still shit defense?"
Do you truly understand the words coming out of your mouth?
| Ducks | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Season | Game set | Games | W | L | OTL | Pts | Pts Pct | GF | GA | GD | |
| 2022-23 | season | 82 | 23 | 47 | 12 | 58 | 35.4% | 206 | 335 | -129 | |
| 2023-24 | season | 82 | 27 | 50 | 5 | 59 | 36.0% | 203 | 293 | -90 | |
| Difference | Cronin - | Eakins | 4 | 3 | -7 | 1 | 0.0061 | 0 | -3 | -42 | 39 |
Maybe you should look at the chart again. Similarly produced mediocre offense, but significantly worse defensive output under Eakins. Now, look at the team Points production. Cronin produced only 1 extra point. You truly cannot have it both ways here of waxing Cronin's balls at the same time not recognizing what Eakins did.
That second table is about 1-goal games, not just OT games. But I do find your stance comical as you praise Cronin for earning an extra win in 1-goal game situations while simultaneously disparaging Eakins' team ability to push games into OT to generate more points. In 1-goal game situations, Eakins' team were able to not only be in more 1-goal game situations (+3 more games), but also generate 9 more points than Cronin's team. There exists a disconnect in your logical consistency again, especially when the defensive roster given to Eakins was a Verbeek shit sandwich.
Although for all the bitching and moaning about missing some of the top-6 from you, you jumped onto the "improving the bottom-6" quickly. I shared charts that the top-6F under Cronin did better than the top-6F under Eakins and you're dismissive. I shared the 1-goal game charts that show Cronin doesn't know how to generate more points in 1-goal game situations and you use mental gymnastics to be dismissive of that outcome. But when I support my stats with Verbeek citing the bottom-6 needs to produce more, you're like Pavlov's dog to wave that banner without thought.
I know Cronin isn't going anywhere, but I want to at least know his flaws so that I know if he has improved for the next season. I am not sure you have actually cited these Cronin "major flaws" that you speak of. Eakins isn't returning, but I at least I know Eakins did more with lesser talents. I wasn't expecting that at the start of last season, but that's how it all shook down. Hell, I wasn't expecting Eakins to be the head coach for 2022-23.
On a tangent, guess the thought that the Samueli's don't like paying twice for coaching, e.g. Eakins wasn't fired, his contract wasn't renewed; asst coach Brown wasn't fired, his contract wasn't renewed.
