Speculation: 2024-25 Coaching/Management/Ownership

[Lord Flashheart]

I'm talking about how he helped develop him as a player and coached the 2010 Hawks to a cup that had alot young star level talent like Toews and Kane etc. Coach Q was not the one who committed assault on any players.
He's old now and not worth bringing in anyways.

He helped cover it up, he lied about knowing about it, total POS. Should never come close to this organization.

 

[70sSanO]

The irony of all this is the difference between Greg Cronin and Jon Cooper.

Pat Verbeek knows first hand the qualities that Cooper brought to the Lightning.

It doesn’t take much effort to see that Cooper has won at every level.

I don’t know if PV was just shooting for the stars with Cronin or what. But I do know that Cronin wasn’t winning cups/championships at those lower levels.

If you can’t figure out how to win throughout a minor and college career, why would anyone think he can in the NHL.

John

 

[Hockey Duckie]

What are the NHL’s Top 10 front offices? Here’s how 40 executives voted

For this exercise, The Athletic canvassed 40 executives across the sport, and tabulated their results to build front-office report cards.

www.nytimes.com

Voted 11th by their peers.

Odd saying the Ducks talent pool was empty when Verbeek took over since the Ducks have been in the top-10/top-5 for what feels like forever. A lot of execs like collection of potential drafted talented that Verbeek has accrued. I totally agree with that assessment, but the product on ice with some of those talents hasn't blossomed at the pro level. Therein lies the problem.

 

[JAHV]

The irony of all this is the difference between Greg Cronin and Jon Cooper.

Pat Verbeek knows first hand the qualities that Cooper brought to the Lightning.

It doesn’t take much effort to see that Cooper has won at every level.

I don’t know if PV was just shooting for the stars with Cronin or what. But I do know that Cronin wasn’t winning cups/championships at those lower levels.

If you can’t figure out how to win throughout a minor and college career, why would anyone think he can in the NHL.

John

I think this was a development hire. Verbeek could be reasonably certain this roster wasn't going to win anything any time soon. Cronin was strictly a "I want these guys to develop good habits and play the game the right way" sort of coach. A hard-ass who would instill discipline, teach individual defensive responsibility and skills, and set the franchise up for another coach to come along and take them to the next level. If Cronin caught lightning in a bottle and started winning, great! But that wasn't the idea behind the hire. Maybe McIlvane is (or was) supposed to be that next guy.

And I think it's reasonable to say that possibly some of those things are true. Whether or not he'll ever be good at it (I contend he won't), based on what he's said and what we're seeing in games, Zegras is a more complete player. The team's defense has improved DRAMATICALLY from where it was under Eakins. We can't see behind the scenes, so it's possible workout habits and practice habits are better.

But very little of what Cronin preaches seems to be translating into on-ice improvement. That's concerning. I think we do still need to give it some time, but I'm getting antsy. It's one thing to have a bit of a letdown on the road to Vegas in the second half of back-to-backs. It's another to get absolutely CRUSHED by Colorado and then come home seemingly knowing you need to play better only to stop working after the first period against your cross-town rivals. The Avs game was embarrassing. The Kings game was inexplicable. I'm more worried about the latter.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

The irony of all this is the difference between Greg Cronin and Jon Cooper.

Pat Verbeek knows first hand the qualities that Cooper brought to the Lightning.

It doesn’t take much effort to see that Cooper has won at every level.

I don’t know if PV was just shooting for the stars with Cronin or what. But I do know that Cronin wasn’t winning cups/championships at those lower levels.

If you can’t figure out how to win throughout a minor and college career, why would anyone think he can in the NHL.

John

All coaches have a shelf life. Cronin was brought in not to win, but to transition team to a next phase, while building a foundation and instilling work ethic. Whether he's reaching those goals or not is something PV can answer, but I am pretty sure he was brought in as an sort of interim coach.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

All coaches have a shelf life. Cronin was brought in not to win, but to transition team to a next phase, while building a foundation and instilling work ethic. Whether he's reaching those goals or not is something PV can answer, but I am pretty sure he was brought in as an sort of interim coach.

Yeah, I really think this is it.

Cronin is a "work ethic" hire with the idea that our players are talented enough to figure it out if they work hard enough.

And now we're seeing that either A) they aren't talented enough or B) the NHL is not a league where you can just figure it out, even if you're talented.

I lean towards B.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I just hope like hell we didn't give him more than a 2 year deal with a club option for the 3rd year. Because you know he will not be fired as long as we still owe him money.

 

[Gliff]

I just hope like hell we didn't give him more than a 2 year deal with a club option for the 3rd year. Because you know he will not be fired as long as we still owe him money.

Pretty sure they have fired every coach while under contract during the current ownership except Eakins.

 

[MMC]

Pretty sure they have fired every coach while under contract during the current ownership except Eakins.

Most if not all of those were in seasons in which the team was expected to compete though, not really the case right now

 

[JAHV]

Yeah, I really think this is it.

Cronin is a "work ethic" hire with the idea that our players are talented enough to figure it out if they work hard enough.

And now we're seeing that either A) they aren't talented enough or B) the NHL is not a league where you can just figure it out, even if you're talented.

I lean towards B.

Or, alternatively, they haven't reached the point in the development process where the work ethic has developed the talent to the point that they can compete in the NHL. I admit, I'm growing more skeptical by the day, but that's the hope I'm holding onto. And I think it's legitimate - we're five games into Cronin's second season. As ugly as the last two games have been, I need to hold onto my preseason vow to wait until New Year's Day to fully judge the progress.

Pretty sure they have fired every coach while under contract during the current ownership except Eakins.

I thought Boudreau's contract expired.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Pretty sure they have fired every coach while under contract during the current ownership except Eakins.

I think if we were competing it might be different. Given this is Verbeek's hire, as part of the rebuild plan, it would be a really bad admission on his part to fire the coach before the contract was up. I guess anything is possible but I think it's quite a long shot.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

Or, alternatively, they haven't reached the point in the development process where the work ethic has developed the talent to the point that they can compete in the NHL. I admit, I'm growing more skeptical by the day, but that's the hope I'm holding onto. And I think it's legitimate - we're five games into Cronin's second season. As ugly as the last two games have been, I need to hold onto my preseason vow to wait until New Year's Day to fully judge the progress.


I thought Boudreau's contract expired.

It's also worth recognizing that the mental work ethic isn't a linear process. Maybe what he's doing hasn't been working and will work suddenly, or maybe it worked and no longer does. Maybe it never will etc. etc.

Definitely tricky.

 

[70sSanO]

All coaches have a shelf life. Cronin was brought in not to win, but to transition team to a next phase, while building a foundation and instilling work ethic. Whether he's reaching those goals or not is something PV can answer, but I am pretty sure he was brought in as an sort of interim coach.

This is all well and good, but if he can't coach to win it seems kind of pointless.

Developing young talent is developing winning talent. Ending up bottom 5 year after year is not really developing talent, it is developing a losing culture.

By its nature, minor league coaches are generally developing young talent, along with playing vets that are not at an NHL level. Winning at that level seems to indicate that the talent is developing.

Unless you are subscribing to the "learn more from losing than winning" mantra. In that case our players development IQ is at a doctorate level.

John

 

[JAHV]

This is all well and good, but if he can't coach to win it seems kind of pointless.

Developing young talent is developing winning talent. Ending up bottom 5 year after year is not really developing talent, it is developing a losing culture.

By its nature, minor league coaches are generally developing young talent, along with playing vets that are not at an NHL level. Winning at that level seems to indicate that the talent is developing.

Unless you are subscribing to the "learn more from losing than winning" mantra. In that case our players development IQ is at a doctorate level.

John

But ending up bottom 5 "year after year" doesn't describe Cronin. Cronin has only ended up in the bottom 5 once.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

But ending up bottom 5 "year after year" doesn't describe Cronin. Cronin has only ended up in the bottom 5 once.

Cronin has not shown any signs that he knows what hes doing.

Anything short of the playoffs would be a dissapointing year for an team. Can't see this team getting out of the bottom 5 this season

 

[MMC]

Anything short of the playoffs would be a dissapointing year for a team.

definitely disagree

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

This is the same team as last year, which was essentially the worst team in the league. I know PV said he wanted to be playing meaningful games later in the year and maybe we will, but since he didn’t sign the guys he wanted maybe he’d revise that goal. I dunno.

But the only way this team improves is if the kids take major steps. That IS on Cronin, whether or not we end up in the playoffs. So far I’m seeing good things from Minty and Dostal and no one else. But, 5 games.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

This is the same team as last year, which was essentially the worst team in the league. I know PV said he wanted to be playing meaningful games later in the year and maybe we will, but since he didn’t sign the guys he wanted maybe he’d revise that goal. I dunno.

But the only way this team improves is if the kids take major steps. That IS on Cronin, whether or not we end up in the playoffs. So far I’m seeing good things from Minty and Dostal and no one else. But, 5 games.

I thought long and hard about it last night.. Im gonna give them till mid November.. I know they are going through a FLU thingy now.. Let all that settle down. if we dont see drastic improvment by mid NOV.. Cronin needs to go.. Specials teams is our biggest concern now. We hired a guy to make the PP better.. WTF has he done? They look worse

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I thought long and hard about it last night.. Im gonna give them till mid November.. I know they are going through a FLU thingy now.. Let all that settle down. if we dont see drastic improvment by mid NOV.. Cronin needs to go.. Specials teams is our biggest concern now. We hired a guy to make the PP better.. WTF has he done? They look worse

I don’t think Cronin’s going anywhere until July probably, if then. No matter what happens.

 

[70sSanO]

But ending up bottom 5 "year after year" doesn't describe Cronin. Cronin has only ended up in the bottom 5 once.

With enough time and enough contracts, he could spend the rest of his life following the puck around the world and never win. - Newell Brown

Give him time.

John

 

[190Octane]

The amount of pants shitting after 5 games should be surprising but isn’t.

 

[goosemooseduck]

There was/were interviews before the start of the season that insinuated (or expressed) by Verbeek that he expects to make a playoff push this season.

That's extremely optimistic (and very unlikely). Maybe couple of winning streaks, but otherwise, this team is going to be bottom 5 for a while.

 

[FlyingV09]

PV was on Spittin’ Chiclets before the season and he sounded less optimistic. I found it odd but the way he worded it was something like “ our young players need to take a step forward, but they might not”. I didn’t understand that. Why shouldn’t they take a step forward? Shouldn’t we be seeing some improvement this year?

 

[12ozPapa]

If anyone thought this team would have a shot at the playoffs, send me your social

 

[Masch78]

That's extremely optimistic (and very unlikely). Maybe couple of winning streaks, but otherwise, this team is going to be bottom 5 for a while.

If we are this for a while, you are essentially the next Oilers. If we think we have top drafting this will not happen.