GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[SEALBound]

The biggest problem with Mike Sullivan's teams is that nobody earns shit during training camp, so we just send the younger players down and keep the middling players up for no logical reason and with no foresight or plan intact.

Cody Glass isn't earning a roster spot. Anthony Beauvillier isn't earning a roster spot. Vinny Hinostroza did not earn one last year.

The coach has a dictatorship going on here, and we peasants merely need to grin and bear it.

Hinostranza didn't start the year with the Penguins. He got little playing time.

Beauvillier, and Hayes and Lizotte for that matter, have already earned the benefit of the doubt by being productive players for multiple seasons. Not saying I like any of them nor doing I think Poulin in or out over any of them makes any difference (sans Beauvillier), but I can certainly understand why they would all have a spot over Poulin.

Why should Poulin get a spot over Beauvillier?

This isn't Sullivan wanting to play Tanner Glass over Jake Guenztel here.

 

[Pancakes]

Hinostranza didn't start the year with the Penguins. He got little playing time.

Beauvillier, and Hayes and Lizotte for that matter, have already earned the benefit of the doubt by being productive players for multiple seasons. Not saying I like any of them nor doing I think Poulin in or out over any of them makes any difference (sans Beauvillier), but I can certainly understand why they would all have a spot over Poulin.

Why should Poulin get a spot over Beauvillier?

This isn't Sullivan wanting to play Tanner Glass over Jake Guenztel here.

Cody Glass also has a proven NHL track record.

People just want young prospects shoved into the lineup because everyone wants the Pens to get younger ASAP but most of the kids we have at camp either aren't that good or need more time in WBS to develop before they get called up.

It's not a failing for these kids to not make the team out of camp. There will be injuries. There will be call ups. When the Pens had the youth wave in 2016 that lead to a cup it was only after giving Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, etc time to marinate a little in the minors. Not one of those guys made it right out of camp.

The thing that frustrates me with Sullivan won't be him not giving guys like Poulin or McGroarty spots immediately. It will be when an actual good NHL ready player in Puustinen is cast aside in favor of other players.

McGroarty going to the minors so that Beauvillier can play instead? Not a problem to me. McGroarty needs time anyways. Someone like Noel Acciari being kept and played over Puustinen? Yeah that sucks, because Puusy is actually ready and productive and should be in the lineup.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840129718386893075

 

[Gurglesons]

Cody Glass also has a proven NHL track record.

People just want young prospects shoved into the lineup because everyone wants the Pens to get younger ASAP but most of the kids we have at camp either aren't that good or need more time in WBS to develop before they get called up.

It's not a failing for these kids to not make the team out of camp. There will be injuries. There will be call ups. When the Pens had the youth wave in 2016 that lead to a cup it was only after giving Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, etc time to marinate a little in the minors. Not one of those guys made it right out of camp.

The thing that frustrates me with Sullivan won't be him not giving guys like Poulin or McGroarty spots immediately. It will be when an actual good NHL ready player in Puustinen is cast aside in favor of other players.

McGroarty going to the minors so that Beauvillier can play instead? Not a problem to me. McGroarty needs time anyways. Someone like Noel Acciari being kept and played over Puustinen? Yeah that sucks, because Puusy is actually ready and productive and should be in the lineup.

I mean the other issue is that we are being fed a story about how Sid and Malkin will help usher in the next gen from Kindergarten Kyle and then they don’t even get a chance with them in preseason.

That could change tomorrow.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Cody Glass also has a proven NHL track record.

People just want young prospects shoved into the lineup because everyone wants the Pens to get younger ASAP but most of the kids we have at camp either aren't that good or need more time in WBS to develop before they get called up.

It's not a failing for these kids to not make the team out of camp. There will be injuries. There will be call ups. When the Pens had the youth wave in 2016 that lead to a cup it was only after giving Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, etc time to marinate a little in the minors. Not one of those guys made it right out of camp.

The thing that frustrates me with Sullivan won't be him not giving guys like Poulin or McGroarty spots immediately. It will be when an actual good NHL ready player in Puustinen is cast aside in favor of other players.

McGroarty going to the minors so that Beauvillier can play instead? Not a problem to me. McGroarty needs time anyways. Someone like Noel Acciari being kept and played over Puustinen? Yeah that sucks, because Puusy is actually ready and productive and should be in the lineup.

I just want some accountability and logic with the roster decisions. Forcing a young guy into the lineup based purely on "he's a former 1st round pick" is no different than Sullivan forcing these shitty depth guys into the lineup based purely on "he can kill penalties". They need to make the lineup with their best 12 forwards and 6 defenseman while putting them in the best positions to help the team.

How Sullivan is handling Puustinen makes no sense to me, I understand Sullivan's thought about Puustinen needing to score in the NHL (let's be real, 5 goals in 50 games is simply not good) but I didn't see any sort of major issues with his all-around game outside of his offense. I don't see what is wrong with Puustinen's game that makes Sullivan think that his performance last year wasn't acceptable. But beyond that, I don't have any issues with the lines and D pairs that Sullivan has set up. Graves is dogshit of course but they kinda have to play him on the 3rd pair and hope.

It would be one thing if someone like McGroarty was dominating in camp and was getting screwed over, but that simply isn't happening. McGroarty looks good and I think he's NHL ready, but he's not outperforming the other forwards in camp and would definitely benefit from half a season in the AHL. Ponomarev is in a similar boat but he has been less noticeable than McGroarty. Poulin's last pre-season game was him having a bad turnover leading to a goal against and him taking 2 boneheaded penalties. Broz and Koivunen clearly need more AHL time. What young guy isn't being given a fair shake here? It's just none of them are good enough yet, and that's completely okay.

 

[DearDiary]

I hate how Sullivan isn't giving chances to W.Smith, Michkov or Gauthier and instead leaning on worse veteran players.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

No game. Probably because Pens have to go on to Ottawa tomorrow

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840162610307535341

 

[Dominance]

Obviously, Sully sabotaged the plane because of his hate for Puustinen.

Am I doing this right?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Kyle: "Hey man, I think you should give the younger guys a shot in top-9, scoring roles."

Sullivan hacking away at the plane's tire: "YEAH DUDE YOU GOT IT!"

 

[DesertedPenguin]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840168403362824330

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh it seems kinda odd that they weren't just taking a bus from Pittsburgh to Detroit, flying there for a pre-season game feels pretty unnecessary.

 

[Sideline]

That is some bush league logistics.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I just want some accountability and logic with the roster decisions. Forcing a young guy into the lineup based purely on "he's a former 1st round pick" is no different than Sullivan forcing these shitty depth guys into the lineup based purely on "he can kill penalties". They need to make the lineup with their best 12 forwards and 6 defenseman while putting them in the best positions to help the team.

How Sullivan is handling Puustinen makes no sense to me, I understand Sullivan's thought about Puustinen needing to score in the NHL (let's be real, 5 goals in 50 games is simply not good) but I didn't see any sort of major issues with his all-around game outside of his offense. I don't see what is wrong with Puustinen's game that makes Sullivan think that his performance last year wasn't acceptable. But beyond that, I don't have any issues with the lines and D pairs that Sullivan has set up. Graves is dogshit of course but they kinda have to play him on the 3rd pair and hope.

It would be one thing if someone like McGroarty was dominating in camp and was getting screwed over, but that simply isn't happening. McGroarty looks good and I think he's NHL ready, but he's not outperforming the other forwards in camp and would definitely benefit from half a season in the AHL. Ponomarev is in a similar boat but he has been less noticeable than McGroarty. Poulin's last pre-season game was him having a bad turnover leading to a goal against and him taking 2 boneheaded penalties. Broz and Koivunen clearly need more AHL time. What young guy isn't being given a fair shake here? It's just none of them are good enough yet, and that's completely okay.

Lets put it this way, if the Penguins did the same to Drew O'Connor after scoring 5 goals 46 games in 2022-23, you'd never see the progression he made to score 16 goals this year, because according to Sullivan in this situation - scoring just 6 goals across 78 games is not enough out of him, but you know what, he got a shot anyway, more than Val. To give that opportunity to more outside players than players from within that are showing that potential is ridiculous, especially for a team that should get younger sure, but also should be giving opportunities to players like Puustinen that they've drafted and developed, spent time and money into and then suddenly discard the moment a veteran with some draft pedigree that's failed to live up to it, is brought in.

The irony if Drew getting more rope is that he got 10 games, then 22, and then 46 and was still given opportunities. Across 32 games, he put up 3 goals, then across 46 games in a season he put up 5, then finally in his 4th season he was able to produce 16 goals while getting a lot of top 6 minutes. This progression, is absolutely fine, you expect to see that. But then when it's only this one player that gets this benefit, it's bizarre.

Puustinen got 1 game, wasn't called up for an entire season, then was up for 52 games. On average, his ice time was lower than Noel Acciari and just barely more than Matthew Phillips, a waiver pick-up that was absolutely useless and has scored literally 1 goal in his entire NHL career. The coach seemingly wants to give everyone a better shot than Puustinen and it's bizarre. His scouting on Puustinen was also insanely off.

He claimed Puustinen wasn't quick enough - He was.
He claimed Puustinen's defensive game wasn't there yet - Yet he was better defensively than most of the Pens forwards.

HIs P/60 puts him in a top 6 winger company. So to see a player do all of that and suddenly needs to "earn it" over players that appear to not need to, is pretty shitty. Like I said, all I hoped for is for them to at least give Puustinen the same opportunities they gave Drew, because if they treated Drew the way they treat Val, you'd never see Doc progress into what he did last season, albeit with a ton of opportunity to do it and he frankly should have produced more given that. But the leap from 11pts in 46 games to 33 in 79 is a decent jump even with heavier top 6 minutes.


The comparison here is Drew's 2022-23 season to Puustinen's 2023-24 season and determining if either deserves another longer look - Drew did and he thrived, Puustinen produced more in his 40+ game stint and suddenly deserves less opportunity.

 

[Ryder71]

Just a bad organization. Right now they are the Pirates of the NHL. Can't even fly to their own games. Tryin to save 200k is my guess.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Tbh it seems kinda odd that they weren't just taking a bus from Pittsburgh to Detroit, flying there for a pre-season game feels pretty unnecessary.

After Claude's Bentley was jacked in Ottawa, a place I thought was supposedly safe? I figure they wanted to play it safe and not risk someone jacking the team bus.

 

[SEALBound]

Cody Glass also has a proven NHL track record.

People just want young prospects shoved into the lineup because everyone wants the Pens to get younger ASAP but most of the kids we have at camp either aren't that good or need more time in WBS to develop before they get called up.

It's not a failing for these kids to not make the team out of camp. There will be injuries. There will be call ups. When the Pens had the youth wave in 2016 that lead to a cup it was only after giving Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, etc time to marinate a little in the minors. Not one of those guys made it right out of camp.

The thing that frustrates me with Sullivan won't be him not giving guys like Poulin or McGroarty spots immediately. It will be when an actual good NHL ready player in Puustinen is cast aside in favor of other players.

McGroarty going to the minors so that Beauvillier can play instead? Not a problem to me. McGroarty needs time anyways. Someone like Noel Acciari being kept and played over Puustinen? Yeah that sucks, because Puusy is actually ready and productive and should be in the lineup.

Agreed.

The bolded is something we need to keep in mind too. Injuries will happen and call ups will be necessary but I think we also need to acknowledge that Sullivan and Quinn may actually make lineup changes if things aren't working. As much as we don't want to give Sullivan credit for anything positive, we did see some minor switching and swapping last year. Pickins were slim but maybe with an abundance of option, he might be more apt to switch things around if something isn't working.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840168403362824330

From missing bobbleheads to missing players. Incredible.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Cody Glass also has a proven NHL track record.

People just want young prospects shoved into the lineup because everyone wants the Pens to get younger ASAP but most of the kids we have at camp either aren't that good or need more time in WBS to develop before they get called up.

It's not a failing for these kids to not make the team out of camp. There will be injuries. There will be call ups. When the Pens had the youth wave in 2016 that lead to a cup it was only after giving Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, etc time to marinate a little in the minors. Not one of those guys made it right out of camp.

The thing that frustrates me with Sullivan won't be him not giving guys like Poulin or McGroarty spots immediately. It will be when an actual good NHL ready player in Puustinen is cast aside in favor of other players.

McGroarty going to the minors so that Beauvillier can play instead? Not a problem to me. McGroarty needs time anyways. Someone like Noel Acciari being kept and played over Puustinen? Yeah that sucks, because Puusy is actually ready and productive and should be in the lineup.

I agree with this as well, McGroarty going to WBS is not a bad thing at all, for him to by pass that and make the roster would be him having an insane camp, which I mean he is having a good one, but not an incredible enough one to make it imo, if you're pretty good in camp, that's fine, you need to be great to make it without any sort of pro experience and Rutger to me shows he can be great if he gets a little more seasoning with more minutes, perfectly fine and if he thrives down there, Dubas will make sure he gets called up asap.

But Poulin? I think he's been a bad fit and there's no usage that Sullivan would plan on using him for that would help him at all and that is unfortunate, you don't want to see a lad like that get written off and I hope he's claimed so maybe that shot in the arm and a new system helps him thrive.

But to potentially lose a player like Puustinen on waivers because of this coach's desperate need for veterans, only to play more stone handed wankers, is just wrong. Puustinen should be on that 3rd line to help create more depth scoring.

It's curious to read about Cody Glass - He had a "break out" season in 2022-23, which was barely better than DOC's stats while getting a lot of decent usage in Nashville as a C, fine, but the next season he starts off with a knee injury, misses the first 18 of 28 games because of a shoulder injury, has something like 2pts in his first 17 games, gets healthy scratched a ton, but he finishes the season with 11pts in 24 games, and ends up being a healthy scratch in all of the playoff games. Throughout the season, because of how his year went to start the season, he struggled mentally, a lot, but found his way through it. It's crazy to go through that on a team that actually supports him, vs say what the Penguins do to the players in a similar situation - young, trying to make the team etc, I'm more shocked the Pens younger players don't seek out a mental health professional based on the stupid shit this coach does to these players, sit them for a period for a mistake, even if they play well prior to that, no logical implementation of accountability at all.

The shitty part is while it'd be great to see Glass succeed, it'd now be at the expense of a player that should have had that same treatment and because they went so hard with the veterans, the spot he should be playing in, 3C, is now not even a proper option.

I still would be happy to see something like:

O'Connor, Crosby, Rust
Bunting, Malkin, Rakell
Hayes, Glass, Puustinen
Beauvillier, Eller, Puljujarvi

 

[Andy99]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840168403362824330

Rescheduled the game for Monday….

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840183442589225252

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I still think the best usage for Cody is at C, he played a lot of C in his 2nd year in Vegas, then in his breakout season, last season he didn't because of the time he missed and his injury, it allowed Nashville to use others in that slot, which is not uncommon for a player - if you hurt your shoulder or you're out with injury, you slot in where you can so as not to disrupt, he played C at times, but was mostly a RW. He was scratched a ton last season, for the first 32 games 2 goals and 3 assists, he had a hot streak in his last 9 games (7pts), scoring a hattrick vs Colorado, then no goals for 6 games until the final game vs Columbus.

He's a natural Center. But then again, Hayes is also at his best at C. It's a real shame they didn't move on from Eller and gotten something for him when they had the chance, because allowing Glass to grow in a 4th line C role would be a great situation for him to make his mark especially for the kind of game he likes to play.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840168403362824330

"Billion Dollar Ownership FSG..."

That is truly some embarrassing shit.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, between NHL vets and WBS guys potentially ready to get some time with the big club, the team's got like 7 guys capable of centering the 3rd and 4th lines. No idea why Eller and Acciari are still here tbh, even with the inevitability of injuries on the horizon.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

Why couldn’t the Pens get to Detroit ? TIA

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why couldn’t the Pens get to Detroit ? TIA

Just says the plane wasn't safe to fly and I'm assuming the issue popped up too late to find another plane or take a bus.

 

[SEALBound]

The organization totally should have risked the lives of the players for a pre-season game.

This has Sullivan written all over it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lets put it this way, if the Penguins did the same to Drew O'Connor after scoring 5 goals 46 games in 2022-23, you'd never see the progression he made to score 16 goals this year, because according to Sullivan in this situation - scoring just 6 goals across 78 games is not enough out of him, but you know what, he got a shot anyway, more than Val. To give that opportunity to more outside players than players from within that are showing that potential is ridiculous, especially for a team that should get younger sure, but also should be giving opportunities to players like Puustinen that they've drafted and developed, spent time and money into and then suddenly discard the moment a veteran with some draft pedigree that's failed to live up to it, is brought in.

The irony if Drew getting more rope is that he got 10 games, then 22, and then 46 and was still given opportunities. Across 32 games, he put up 3 goals, then across 46 games in a season he put up 5, then finally in his 4th season he was able to produce 16 goals while getting a lot of top 6 minutes. This progression, is absolutely fine, you expect to see that. But then when it's only this one player that gets this benefit, it's bizarre.

Puustinen got 1 game, wasn't called up for an entire season, then was up for 52 games. On average, his ice time was lower than Noel Acciari and just barely more than Matthew Phillips, a waiver pick-up that was absolutely useless and has scored literally 1 goal in his entire NHL career. The coach seemingly wants to give everyone a better shot than Puustinen and it's bizarre. His scouting on Puustinen was also insanely off.

He claimed Puustinen wasn't quick enough - He was.
He claimed Puustinen's defensive game wasn't there yet - Yet he was better defensively than most of the Pens forwards.

HIs P/60 puts him in a top 6 winger company. So to see a player do all of that and suddenly needs to "earn it" over players that appear to not need to, is pretty shitty. Like I said, all I hoped for is for them to at least give Puustinen the same opportunities they gave Drew, because if they treated Drew the way they treat Val, you'd never see Doc progress into what he did last season, albeit with a ton of opportunity to do it and he frankly should have produced more given that. But the leap from 11pts in 46 games to 33 in 79 is a decent jump even with heavier top 6 minutes.


The comparison here is Drew's 2022-23 season to Puustinen's 2023-24 season and determining if either deserves another longer look - Drew did and he thrived, Puustinen produced more in his 40+ game stint and suddenly deserves less opportunity.

Yeah I generally agree with this, I honestly don't understand Sullivan's issues with Puustinen. I think he's correct in saying that Puustinen needs to score more goals, but I didn't see any sort of major defensive deficiencies last year that puts him in the Sprong or Kessel territory of "he's hurting the team if he's not scoring".

I generally think that Puustinen doesn't offer much beyond his offense, but there's a difference between "not offering much beyond his offense" and "being bad beyond his offense". He's small, but I didn't really notice any sort of issues with him on the forecheck or going to dirty areas. He's not notable defensively, but he's also not making bad mistakes by forcing the puck or being out of position. I think his all-around game is pretty similar to Sheary's when Sheary first broke into the league, in that it's not the main things he offers but also isn't really a problem either.

I get the impression that Sullivan views Puustinen more in the Sprong territory than the Sheary territory, and I'm not entirely sure why he thinks that.