GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[Darren McCord]

No he's my 13th forward. I wouldn't entertain the idea of waiving him.

Makes sense he wasn't listed on the first post I responded too.

 

[Goodleaf]

For me it isnt so much who it is, its the scenario that pisses me off. Pens are/were the oldest team in the league with little cap space. "We need younger, cheaper guys who can contribute." One finally shows he could be capable, and 6 months later hes on the verge of potentially being given away.

Also, 5 years later Poulin finally shows production at the pro level, and hes in the same boat. He might be a bust, but if we used a 1st on him, why not give him a legit shot for 10-15 games to at least let the kid sink or swim?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

His shooting % last year was 5.8 when his WBS average was 11.6 on average. Know its a big if. But if he can figure out how to score at a similar rate in the NHL he would have had 10 goals and 15 assist last year in 52 games. That's not a bad pace for a 24 year old rookie. That was spending most of his time on third line with Eller.

That's because his shot is slow.

He needs space and time to get off a shot, and he's not getting that in the NHL. Maybe he figures out a way to speed up his release, but this is a pretty common issue that separates fringe NHL players from guys who can stick.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For me it isnt so much who it is, its the scenario that pisses me off. Pens are/were the oldest team in the league with little cap space. "We need younger, cheaper guys who can contribute." One finally shows he could be capable, and 6 months later hes on the verge of potentially being given away.

Also, 5 years later Poulin finally shows production at the pro level, and hes in the same boat. He might be a bust, but if we used a 1st on him, why not give him a legit shot for 10-15 games to at least let the kid sink or swim?

The Penguins are literally not giving Puustinen away. People are making up a scenario to complain about.

The only guys who's a threat of being put on waivers is Poulin, who's probably not getting claimed like most other guys on waivers.

Unless either McGroarty or Ponomarev lights it up in camp, they're probably starting with something very close to:

Beauvillier/DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
DOC/Beauvillier-Eller-Glass
Lizotte-Acciari-Hayes
Puustinen-Poulin

I'd obviously prefer Acciari to be a healthy scratch but that's about it.

 

[SEALBound]

The Penguins are literally not giving Puustinen away. People are making up a scenario to complain about.

The only guys who's a threat of being put on waivers is Poulin, who's probably not getting claimed like most other guys on waivers.

Unless either McGroarty or Ponomarev lights it up in camp, they're probably starting with something very close to:

Beauvillier/DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
DOC/Beauvillier-Eller-Glass
Lizotte-Acciari-Hayes
Puustinen-Poulin

I'd obviously prefer Acciari to be a healthy scratch but that's about it.

Probably pretty realistic but I think even IF Pono or McGroarty do well, their waiver-exempt status likely means a ticket to WBS. I imagine Sulliquin will give the opening roster 10 or so games before they make any changes. Hopefully Quinn will push on Sullivan if something isn't working.

 

[Goodleaf]

Unless either McGroarty or Ponomarev lights it up in camp, they're probably starting with something very close to:

Beauvillier/DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
DOC/Beauvillier-Eller-Glass
Lizotte-Acciari-Hayes
Puustinen-Poulin

I'd obviously prefer Acciari to be a healthy scratch but that's about itit.

Im with you 100%. This is the lineup id roll out, but will they?

 

[OtherThingsILike]

but I was absolutely super down on Hayes being anything useful for this team. If he ends up being an effective bottom-6 player, I'd be extremely happy with it.

How 'bad' Kevin Hayes was last season was overstated. When he was on the ice, the Blues scored 51.3% of the goals at even-strength. This might not seem overly impressive, but that was sixth on the team, and two of the players above him played fewer than thirty games. This means that only three Blues players who played a decent chunk of games had a better goal differential than he did. This is actual goals, not expected goals.
Also, he was used on somewhat of a defensive role on the team. Not to the same extreme that Eller was used here, but he didn't get tons of Offensive Zone time handed to him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Im with you 100%. This is the lineup id roll out, but will they?

I think it's most likely, I think the only way they'd do something different is by waiving Poulin for another 14th forward (which I don't think they should do) or if one of their other young guys steps up and claims a spot. Not thinking that's overly likely, though.

How 'bad' Kevin Hayes was last season was overstated. When he was on the ice, the Blues scored 51.3% of the goals at even-strength. This might not seem overly impressive, but that was sixth on the team, and two of the players above him played fewer than thirty games. This means that only three Blues players who played a decent chunk of games had a better goal differential than he did. This is actual goals, not expected goals.
Also, he was used on somewhat of a defensive role on the team. Not to the same extreme that Eller was used here, but he didn't get tons of Offensive Zone time handed to him.

My issue with Hayes is that he can't skate, he only had 6th percentile max speed last year. I think he'll be better than Carter, but not by a crazy amount. I don't think his on-ice numbers from last year really change things.

I'd keep him on L4 and PP2, but I wouldn't expect anything more about that.

 

[canadianguy77]

I’m hoping they buy Hayes out because it was a dumb move to get him in the first place and he sucks at hockey. But you just know Sullivan is going to love him. It really sucks because we’re not that far away from contending for a playoff spot.

 

[Ryder71]

Im with you 100%. This is the lineup id roll out, but will they?

That line up is doomed to fail. Not that any options we have at our disposal are very good.

 

[Andy99]

I’m hoping they buy Hayes out because it was a dumb move to get him in the first place and he sucks at hockey. But you just know Sullivan is going to love him. It really sucks because we’re not that far away from contending for a playoff spot.

Sullivan likely told Dubas to trade for him lol…

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I guess. I don’t think Tocchet is really anything. He pulled the same shit Sully does with Kuzmenko.

I can't wait for this board to drop the whole "Tocchet was the architect!!!!" schtick.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

That's because his shot is slow.

He needs space and time to get off a shot, and he's not getting that in the NHL. Maybe he figures out a way to speed up his release, but this is a pretty common issue that separates fringe NHL players from guys who can stick.

Bingo bango bongo. When people talk about the difference between AHL and NHL shooters, it's not the overall pace of the shot, or even the accuracy, but the quickness/efficiency of the release.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I guess. I don’t think Tocchet is really anything. He pulled the same shit Sully does with Kuzmenko.

Kuzmenko had problems all season and most, if not, all, were his own doing. There were issues with his conditioning, he didn't really seem all that engaged in the game the rest of the team was buying into.

“I think he’s trying to understand that but it’s very important … if Mikheyev’s forechecking he’s got to forecheck with him, because if Mikheyev forechecks and he stays back, (the opposition defence) makes a D to D pass and it’s an easy breakout,” the coach added.“It’s a chain link thing, you have to participate.

That doesn’t mean, you don’t have to hit a guy. I don’t care about that. I think there’s certain parts of his game (where) you have to participate. You know, you come back in your zone. We expect to be in the ‘rail’ — in the slot — and that’s your job to protect that part. You got to do it, like at least eight out of 10 times, not once in a while.”

“We have a lot of good guys. They’ll go up to him and explain things … but you got to take initiative and it really starts in practice. Like if there’s a drill and you’re supposed to go this way, you got to do it that way. And you got to do it with pace and you know, sometimes it’s a hit or miss with him,” he said.

“I gotta help the guy out too. I mean, obviously when you’re not scoring, it sucks. But you have to make sure if you’re not scoring, you got to make sure you’re locked solid in other areas,” Tocchet said.



“I’m not trying to make him a Selke winner. I think there’s certain parts of your game you have to be there for us. You know, obviously, if you’re scoring goals, sometimes a coach can overlook a few little mistakes.

Canucks: More tough words for Andrei Kuzmenko from Rick Tocchet

"Our job is to help and maybe we have to do a better job of making him understand certain things." — Coach Rick Tocchet

theprovince.com

Kuzmenko is a goal scorer but when he doesn't even do that he ghosts on you and it's not a Euro thing because Tocchet's been using other Euro players and seeing them succeed. Hoglander finally scoring 20, etc. The issue wasn't as much Tocchet as it was Allvin/JR moving away on him too fast. Seemed like Tocchet was doing what he could. Speaking to a lot of fans here and seeing the games, you can see some of the stuff Tocc mentioned, Mikheyev would go in for the forecheck and Kuzmenko would just float around, he didn't seem interested and if he wasn't scoring he was useless. Players like that have a place in the game for sure, but if you can't even do the simple things then you're in trouble. The trade to the Flames gave him a shot in the arm because suddenly he was playing like he was the year before.

Keep in mind, he produced well under Tocchet after he took over for Boudreau.

Under Bruce: Kuzmenko had 41pts in 45 games, 19 goals 0.91ppg - Good stats

After Bruce w/Tocchet - 33pts in 36 games, 20 goals 0.92ppg.

Under Tocchet his EV/TOI increased and so did his powerplay time. Kuzmenko not buying in to what the entire roster was doing is his issue.

Kuzmenko was fine under both coaches in 2022-23. There was mentions of his conditioning, he trimmed down but it seemed as though he didn't do some stuff enough and some weird thing about his Bali workouts. Whatever that was. It's funny to claim Rick f***ed that up, Kuzmenko was still top 4 for forwards for powerplay time, he was getting opportunities to succeed and just couldn't. It's curious as well that his analytics/corsi were still better in Vancouver than it was in Calgary. Had Allvin/JR just kept him and let him work it out, he would have fought through it I think. 10 of his points in Calgary were against Anaheim, San Jose, and Arizona. A lot vs San Jose. Calgary started him in the offensive zone 80% of the time as well, not that his usage was remotely Sullivan like in Vancouver where he'd flip the player to 60+ in dz starts. They were still trying. GM gave up on the player, coach didn't.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Sullivan is interviewed in Custance's book "Behind the Benches" and basically says he wanted Kessel on L3 from day one.

It's honestly weird to read now. Because, all he does is stack all the good players in the top six and let the bottom six be a total wasteland when his entire method in the cup runs was having 4 balanced lines that could play all situations and score.

Spoiler: those 4 balanced lines were someone else’s idea and he’s salty about it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's because his shot is slow.

He needs space and time to get off a shot, and he's not getting that in the NHL. Maybe he figures out a way to speed up his release, but this is a pretty common issue that separates fringe NHL players from guys who can stick.

His shot is slow? Lol. That might be one of the most out to lunch f***ing comments I've ever seen about a Penguins player where you're so f***ing wrong I question if you actually watch the games at all.

One of the things Val has had scouted about him and he's been used for it a lot in other leagues is his lethal release. He was even utilized a lot on the powerplay for his shot at the point.





BTW this shift vs the Wings is proof of so much of the stupid shit blokes said about him - easily knocked off, too small, isn't quick enough etc. The work ethic on that shift and his game overall was more than most and he still was used horribly.



I will never forget how Sullivan coached Sprong to pass the puck to Sid when he can and not shoot as much, that was his brilliant coaching advice to a shooter. Puustinen maybe focused on trying to set up more than shoot and that isn't because his shot was slow, being a catalyst on a line to create goals is still valuable because he's not doing nothing and someone is scoring while he was on their line. Funny enough Puustinen was a better player than Drew O'Connor last season and didn't get the same opportunities that Drew got.

So he didn't shoot as often, it wasn't from a lack of a bad shot or anything. He was playing to produce, 10 primary assists while mostly with Eller and at times Geno and Smith, meanwhile most of Doc's goals were from Sid, Geno, And Rust.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Bingo bango bongo. When people talk about the difference between AHL and NHL shooters, it's not the overall pace of the shot, or even the accuracy, but the quickness/efficiency of the release.

Bingo, bango, bongo, his release was never the issue and it most definitely wasn't slow. It was perhaps the fact that he was using his playmaking abilities to help his line and if he was a little more selfish with the puck or had you know, better usage, he'd have scored more than 5 goals but still helped set up 15 others while being a better overall player than the one lad that kept getting a ton of opportunities and still not doing more with it.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I can't wait for this board to drop the whole "Tocchet was the architect!!!!" schtick.

Pretty funny that originally Tocchet was extremely hated by the board for being a Mario crony hire. Then that one report came out about him being the Kessel whisperer and the opinion on him completely flipped.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Never understood why people are in a rush to get rid of players who are doing well.
What, so we can play Acciari?
There isn't even an NHL sample size of Puusty sucking yet. But already waivers?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Never understood why people are in a rush to get rid of players who are doing well.
What, so we can play Acciari?
There isn't even an NHL sample size of Puusty sucking yet. But already waivers?

I see they're trying to build chemistry with Hayes and Geno and I am fine with that as it would likely mean Glass is going to be C and honestly that's what I prefer to see him as if he's going to get a chance to succeed and he's healthy, go with the position he did do well in in his "breakout" year. I'd be fine taking those ideas into account and going with this:

Bunting, Crosby, Rust
Hayes, Malkin, Rakell
O'Connor, Glass, Puustinen
Beauvillier, Eller, Puljujarvi
Lizotte - 13th forward.

Acciari, Nieto, Bemstrom should all be waived, if any of them get claimed, great, if not, they can go be heroes in WBS.

Poulin I feel is likely going to get waived during the mass waives and see if they can sneak him through, McGroarty would benefit with top line minutes in WBS to start the season, get top PP and PK minutes, etc, being there and assessing his play in the first dozen games is good for him, also I am starting to like the way Kirk MacDonald thinks with his coaching and I think that would be better for his development than being brainwashed by Sullivan and his gimp, Quinn.

Especially with this sort of thing...

In Dubuque, MacDonald worked closely with Joona Väisänen, who went on to be drafted by Pittsburgh in the sixth round (175th overall) of this past year’s NHL Entry Draft. This past year was Väisänen’s first season in North America, having only played in his native Finland prior to the 2023-24 campaign. He went undrafted the year before, but he made enough strides in Dubuque to get his name called by Pittsburgh this time around.

Not only did Väisänen improve under MacDonald’s tutelage, but the coach earned the young man’s trust very early in his first season away from home.
“He made me feel at home,” Väisänen said. “He let me breathe and take my time to adapt to the game. He had that trust in me. … It came pretty fast, that trust. It was a huge part of my game and the whole team’s success.”

"ENTHUSIASM" A HALLMARK OF NEW COACH MACDONALD | WBS Penguins

When Jason Spezza was conducting his search for the next coach of the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins, Kirk MacDonald's passion stood out.

www.wbspenguins.com

You don't want to rush a prospect like Rutger and f*** him up and I really think dipshits like Sullivan and Quinn can and will do that.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

BTW this shift vs the Wings is proof of so much of the stupid shit blokes said about him - easily knocked off, too small, isn't quick enough etc. The work ethic on that shift and his game overall was more than most and he still was used horribly.

I think that Detroit goal actually showcases what @DesertedPenguin was saying about his slow shot. One timers are clearly not an issue, though. Not like he was getting those feeds in the AHL.

I want Puustinen on the NHL team. It gives me someone to cheer for. And I think he'd help either PP unit.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Im with you 100%. This is the lineup id roll out, but will they?

No. They wont.

Putting Beauvillier and Glass above Hayes is pretty fricking dumb.

I'd akin they do something more like this opening day roster.

Rakell, Crosby, Rust <--- Crosby is going to want proven guys
Bunting, Malkin, Hayes <---- Hayes either here or 3rd RW
O'Connor, Eller, Puustinen <--- Camp and pre-season will determine if anyone supplants the wingers
Beauvillier, Lizotte, Glass <--- This can go a number of ways, I still hold fast it's an expensive 4th at 5.6/6.0 when it should be half that. Hayes would take it over 7.0 and cap dollars that could improve/upgrade the 3rd line or top 6 wing.
Acciari/Bemstrom/Puj

Penguins have amassed a heck of a collection of bottom six cluster **** of armory. Who's to say who supplants who. I do know they wont be supplanting Hayes to the 4th line. He has the most upside that's proven at the NHL level at being a 40/50 producing player.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I kind of randomly checked out Hayes on YT and found this nugget with and old-time 4th line C for the Pens Joe Vitale with Bennington and Hayes doing "What's in the Box" segment.



Pens bottom 6 is a variety of sushi.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think that Detroit goal actually showcases what @DesertedPenguin was saying about his slow shot. One timers are clearly not an issue, though. Not like he was getting those feeds in the AHL.

I want Puustinen on the NHL team. It gives me someone to cheer for. And I think he'd help either PP unit.

He absolutely does not have a slow release or a slow shot or whatever moronic excuse blokes seem to be come up about him.

Luckily he's (Puustinen) having a very good camp so far and I hope it's enough to make sure he's on the roster, at this point it seems like even Ponomarev is continuously impressing and Glass really seems invisible, he wasn't good along the boards in one of the scrimmages and he really doesn't wow you in any way about anything - his skating, shot, etc. St Ivany looks great each bit I've seen of his camp, his skating and even his shot has been very noticeable.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No. They wont.

Putting Beauvillier and Glass above Hayes is pretty fricking dumb.

I'd akin they do something more like this opening day roster.

Rakell, Crosby, Rust <--- Crosby is going to want proven guys
Bunting, Malkin, Hayes <---- Hayes either here or 3rd RW
O'Connor, Eller, Puustinen <--- Camp and pre-season will determine if anyone supplants the wingers
Beauvillier, Lizotte, Glass <--- This can go a number of ways, I still hold fast it's an expensive 4th at 5.6/6.0 when it should be half that. Hayes would take it over 7.0 and cap dollars that could improve/upgrade the 3rd line or top 6 wing.
Acciari/Bemstrom/Puj

Penguins have amassed a heck of a collection of bottom six cluster **** of armory. Who's to say who supplants who. I do know they wont be supplanting Hayes to the 4th line. He has the most upside that's proven at the NHL level at being a 40/50 producing player.

Malkin and Rakell are the pairs mostly, Rakell has looked good like his shoulder is 100% and he's back to his old self. Him and Geno were buzzing together so I think if anything there's a chance for Hayes to be the LW on that line or they go with Bunting.

They were trying Beauvillier, Crosby, Rust at times, let's hope that's not a thing.

Puljujarvi looks like he's going to be one of the first few cuts at this stage, he's doing himself zero favours and is already getting called out by Sullivan in practices.


Ps - Binnington is a racist piece of shit.