Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[The Moops]

but they thought they had someone to replace an aging Kadri who wanted a 7 or 8 year contract after a career year.

If they really thought they had a replacement (newjost) they are dumber than me

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yea but at the time the thinking was Newhook could replace Kadri but there was no one to replace Manson.

It was evidently clear Newhook was not going to be able to fill the 2C role after the cup season. That’s just bad roster management from CMac.

There's no "if" there. Management went public that summer saying they'd give Newhook a chance until Christmas and then figure something out for the 2C spot if need be.

Of course Bednar had other plans, he played Newhook 2 games at center and then it was a JTC love fest.

I mean… you saw Newhook at 2C. It was an unmitigated disaster to start the season. He had to be moved for his and the teams sake.

 

[The Abusement Park]

There's no Cup without Manson.

And there was never going to be a 2nd Cup with that core without Landy, regardless if they shipped out G to keep Kadri or not.

That team captured lightning in a bottle, had one of, if not the best TDL in franchise history and went on to completely dominate the playoffs as a result. Replicating that feat is nearly impossible, so I'm just happy they did what they did.

I don't expect another Cup

No one’s saying he wasn’t a positive impact in the cup run. He obviously was. But re signing him wasn’t necessary and has not helped that how tight we are against the cap right now.

 

[AvsFan4]

So Nichushkin is coming back mid-November and everything we’re being told seems to indicate that Landeskog could be around that time too. Well. Us fans haven’t been given any specifics whatsoever and left to read between the lines. But “early in the season” is what we’ve been told.

So with Nichushkin’s prorated salary and Landy back, won’t we have cap issues? I was never praised for my math skills but I’m thinking like a mil or two over when both are back.

 

[The Merchant]

There's your answer. Nuke will play for the Avs again whenever he's ready.

I knew they'd not buy him out.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836044763826434124

Fool me once...fool me twice...fool me...thrice?

 

[henchman21]

Fool me once...fool me twice...fool me...thrice?

https://media.tenor.com/GsY-zt2HFpcAAAAM/george-bush-fool.gif

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836203238225277312

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Josh Manson absolutely was not the reason we won a cup in 2022. Lets cut out that garbage right now lmao. He contributed positively... But they win that cup regardless of his contributions.

Signing Manson also was absolutely the first significant mistake that has led us down this path ever since. With it being closely tied to the 2nd big mistake, letting Kadri go.


If they do the opposite that summer(Let Manson walk and keep Naz), you probably still have Byram today.... I'd venture to guess the Newhook trade still plays out very similarly to how it did. But I would guess that either Byram is still here, or if he ended up still getting traded it would have been for more of a RD... I could see a world where a trade with Calgary around Rasmus Andersson might have been a possibility.

 

[MarkT]

I think a lot of you guys have a ton of recency bias when it comes to Kadri. Yes, he was incredible during the cup run and became a core player during that season. But have you all forgotten what he was like before that? He was a complete net negative player, dragging down his linemates and wasting offensive chances. How were the Avs supposed to know which version of Kadri they were going to get long term, especially as age caught up with him? Signing 30+ year old players to big, long term deals is exactly how you guarantee our window closes at some point.

As much as I love him, I'm glad the Avs didn't give Kadri the deal he got in Calgary.

As for Manson, if they let him walk, they would immediately need to go looking for a replacement. It's not like you can easily just go out and find big physical top-4 right d who aren't complete liabilities offensively.

I think re-signing Manson was the right move, because it allowed the team down the line to deal from a position of strength - they could afford to trade whoever made the most sense out of Toews, Byram, Girard and Manson when the time came, leaving them still with a very solid top 4. And I personally don't blame them for not going with a top four of Makar, Toews, Byram and Girard.

Some of you also need to remember that progression isn't linear. There was no absolute proof anywhere that said Newhook would never become a good 2C. Heck, he could still potentially become that in Montreal - He looked like a great 3C for a long stretch last season, and he's still 23.

 

[Ararana]

"Chose to" as in they made a generous offer and Kadri was choosing between them and us.

Absolutely they chose to. You don't handcuff yourself capwise on a depth player while your most important free agent is still out there dangling. You deal with your free agents in order of priority. cMac forgot that and ended up f***ing himself.

They could have easily matched the Calgary offer without Manson already on the books, and they should have. And I seriously doubt the Avs had to match that offer, they just had to come somewhat close to it. Kadri obviously wanted to stay, he gave the Avs all damn summer to get their shit together.

As for Manson, if they let him walk, they would immediately need to go looking for a replacement.

Replacing a physical #4 defenseman is wildly easier and cheaper than replacing a second line center that just proved he can lead you to a cup win. It's almost 2025 and the Avs still don't have that, Mitts is a nice player but I'm skeptical the Avs can go deep in the postseason with him.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Meh. They had no one to replace Manson (and still don't, hence keeping him) but they thought they had someone to replace an aging Kadri who wanted a 7 or 8 year contract after a career year.

Yhea Manson over Kadri is an over simplification of the situation to suit a narrative. Manson is $4.5M and Kadri $7M. So the real trade-off is not 1-on-1, it smore complicated than that.

I'm not saying they made the right move, I'm saying this Manson instead of Kadri is not factually correct. Or more specifically it is incomplete.

 

[MarkT]

Replacing a physical #4 defenseman is wildly easier and cheaper than replacing a second line center that just proved he can lead you to a cup win. It's almost 2025 and the Avs still don't have that, Mitts is a nice player but I'm skeptical the Avs can go deep in the postseason with him.

I reject the notion that it was either Manson or Kadri. They play different positions and whichever one of them left created a hole. Plus as was already pointed out earlier in the thread, it's not just Manson - it's several more million in cap hit as well. I suspect if we kept Kadri then it would have been Val who wasn't re-signed. Based on the players they were at the time and their ages, keeping Val over Kadri was 100% the right move.

I agree replacing Kadri was not and has not been easy, but I'd rather be looking for a 2C than be saddled with one on a big contract in his late 30's while Cale is still in his prime.

Where I'll challenge you is this - who exactly would we have replaced Manson with, since it's so wildly easy to do so? What big physical legit top 4 right handed defensemen were available at the time? At least with Kadri we had guys (Newhook, Compher) would could have conceivably replaced that role - The Avs had nobody (and still don't) who could replace Manson.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

We keep forgetting that it wasn’t Manson or Kadri.

The Avs were going to keep Kadri if EJ accepted the trade to Anaheim, which he was flip-flopping on over a two week period until ultimately deciding to stay.

Kadri even waited and gave the Avs time. Him coming back was still on the cards even after Manson was re-signed.

 

[The Moops]

Some of you also need to remember that progression isn't linear. There was no absolute proof anywhere that said Newhook would never become a good 2C. Heck, he could still potentially become that in Montreal - He looked like a great 3C for a long stretch last season, and he's still 23.

You're right he might be a 2C someday, but we needed a 2C the second Kadri didn't sign and Newhook was not and still isn't one. That's the issue. We didn't need someone in 3-5 years. We needed someone that day

 

[John Mandalorian]

The perception of Manson vs Kadri wasn’t helped by Manson missing 55 games in 2023.

And the Erik Johnson decision to not accept the trade was also incredibly impactful in that it resulted in the Avs starting the season with a Johnson - Girard third pairing making 11 M combined while they let their 2C from the year before walk. The Avs let their 2C walk because of having an 11M third pairing.

But at least that third pairing played more than 27 games each. Johnson missed 20 something games but that’s nothing compared to Manson who missed 55.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836412314913853879

 

[Hesher]

Cal Foote signs for Liptovsky Mikulas in the Slovak league. That's the same team that signed Mitch Miller and Severi Lahtinen last year...

 

[MarkT]

You're right he might be a 2C someday, but we needed a 2C the second Kadri didn't sign and Newhook was not and still isn't one. That's the issue. We didn't need someone in 3-5 years. We needed someone that day

Hindsight. It's not unheard of for players to take major steps forward from one season to the next, especially after they got the chance to take part in a run to the cup. It was a difficult situation. The choice was either commit to a guy already on the wrong side of 30, or gamble on your first round draft pick to work out for you. I don't know if you remember, but there's video of the Newhook draft where Sakic confirms that Newhook is "top 6" before committing to the pick. The expectation within the organization was clearly that Newhook was going to be a 2C for them, and at his age at the time, it was too early to declare him a bust.

Now, ideally, if they were letting Kadri walk, they would at least need a stopgap 2C to fill the spot until Newhook was ready, but I don't recall the Avs having much cap space, and 2Cs don't grow on trees. I expect they looked at JT as that stopgap player, and hoped that Newhook would be able to earn that spot sooner or later.

 

[MarkT]

Cal Foote signs for Liptovsky Mikulas in the Slovak league. That's the same team that signed Mitch Miller and Severi Lahtinen last year...

I wonder what's up with that team? Is it perhaps owned by the kind of person who feels like players who do things like these guys are being treated too harshly, or thinks they didn't do anything wrong?

 

[Vaslof]

Absolutely they chose to. You don't handcuff yourself capwise on a depth player while your most important free agent is still out there dangling. You deal with your free agents in order of priority. cMac forgot that and ended up f***ing himself.

They could have easily matched the Calgary offer without Manson already on the books, and they should have. And I seriously doubt the Avs had to match that offer, they just had to come somewhat close to it. Kadri obviously wanted to stay, he gave the Avs all damn summer to get their shit together.



Replacing a physical #4 defenseman is wildly easier and cheaper than replacing a second line center that just proved he can lead you to a cup win. It's almost 2025 and the Avs still don't have that, Mitts is a nice player but I'm skeptical the Avs can go deep in the postseason with him.

If Kadri wanted to stay, he would have stayed. Players have agency. That is something we often ignore here in the trade thread, blaming Avs for not getting player X or Y when they might never have wanted to come here.

 

[RECKLESS]

I'm way more excited to have Mitts as our 2C entering his prime going into this season than I would be having aging Nazeeem the dreeem.

Don't get me wrong, the cup year I absolutely loved him. But he peaked very sharply in that moment. Lucky us.

 

[MarkT]

I'd also be curious who we'd lose from the roster last season and this one in order to afford Kadri's contract.

 

[henchman21]

On the cap hit... instead of a Manson/ERod combo, it would have been a Kadri/Schenn type combo instead (remember Avs had EJ still at this point).

On RD that could have been had, we saw Tanev at the last deadline (and the Avs were in it). Avs clearly got Manson in a trade. Savard was also moved. Those two fit the exact same mold. Then you have different molds of players in different ways... say a left shot that can play the right side, like Orlov or Ekholm. Or a different type of RD like Hronek. Or slightly lesser versions. Every year these types of defenders trade places. They aren't necessarily cheap, but they can be had. Along with this, the Avs had Byram as a floater #5 that would play both sides and all the pairings at different times to get him minutes. They already had 4 guys for top 4 roles. They could have moved forward with that... and that group would be stronger than today's group.

With Newhook, it was simply a misevaluation and a bad move. Skill sets matter and if a player is deficient in something, they need to make it up elsewhere in drastic ways. It isn't like it wasn't clear to see with Newhook. It was chattered about prior to his drafting, after he was drafted, and when he was in the NHL. The Avs even made moves to ensure he wasn't even playing center, on any line, for the Cup run. Arguably, his miss (amongst others) cost 2 scouts their jobs. He was a western Canada guy (so Klipp was his regional scout) and Hepple had to ensure Sakic Newhook was the guy. Both have now been phased out. The move to esure Newhook wasn't playing center makes the whole thing more egregious IMO. The Avs already saw the struggles and just said they were okay with it. You can't just do that with important positions like the 2nd line center spot.

We keep forgetting that it wasn’t Manson or Kadri.

The Avs were going to keep Kadri if EJ accepted the trade to Anaheim, which he was flip-flopping on over a two week period until ultimately deciding to stay.

Kadri even waited and gave the Avs time. Him coming back was still on the cards even after Manson was re-signed.

This is true in the sense that the Avs kept trying with Kadri and wanted him back. Kadri even game them ample time to figure out it. Where I have issue with it, is Kadri should have been figured out prior to Manson. Then it should have been an Manson/EJ decision rather than a Kadri/EJ decision. They knew Kadri would wait, they pushed that as far as they could, and it ended up burning them.

In any case of this, the roster issues caused by the loss of Kadri have hurt this team over the past two seasons. We now have Mitts to take that role, but it cost further assets to get there. The Avs not only hurt the past two seasons by that decision, they lost further assets to improve the team.

If Kadri wanted to stay, he would have stayed. Players have agency. That is something we often ignore here in the trade thread, blaming Avs for not getting player X or Y when they might never have wanted to come here.

Kadri wanted to stay, and the framework of a deal was in place. Kadri gave a ton of time for the Avs to figure out the cap issues until eventually he had to sign elsewhere.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836423494369694180

 

[Hesher]

I wonder what's up with that team? Is it perhaps owned by the kind of person who feels like players who do things like these guys are being treated too harshly, or thinks they didn't do anything wrong?

The owner is an absolute idiot but he can sign these players simply because people here just don't care about these things.