Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[The Abusement Park]

As it pertains to Georgiev, I can't really understand why we're still having the conversation about him possibly being "the guy." This has been going on since November of last year, and he's since had 50 games at .890sv%, and one shutout in as many games. Just for comparisons sake, Jack Campbell played 5 games with the Oilers last year, and had a 873%, and hasn't played in the NHL since.... Georgiev has .800% through 4 games.

Completely unacceptable. Every loss you dig the hole just a bit deeper. The Avs would now have to go 7-3 over the next 10 games just to get to .500. It's not time to hit the panic button, but don't underestimate the effects of a terrible start.

Because they know Annunen is worse. There’s no upside with Annunen, he’s a mid backup at best. Georgiev at least has the athleticism and skill set to get to a starter level at some point. My guess is they give Georgie a couple months to fix himself and if he can’t they replace him. It sucks but this is the scenario we find ourselves in.

 

[LOFIN]

Because they know Annunen is worse. There’s no upside with Annunen, he’s a mid backup at best. Georgiev at least has the athleticism and skill set to get to a starter level at some point. My guess is they give Georgie a couple months to fix himself and if he can’t they replace him. It sucks but this is the scenario we find ourselves in.

If Annunen is SO BAD, that Bednar can't play him unless Georgiev is injured or we are on a b2b, then something should've been done to address the situation. Hence, they picked up Kähkönen. My only guess is that CMac was thinking that Annunen is going to be the legit backup, but Bednar has simply refused to comply even though this was discussed during the summer. No other explanation for why they waited so long to pick up even Kähkönen, when a guy like Lankinen was available until camp at the same price.

And if this is the case, one has to wonder how long of a leash Bednar has, if he and CMac are at odds.

 

[Avs91]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5846642/2024/10/17/john-gibson-trade-ducks-avalanche/

I think they should do the trade mid game tomorrow and just have Georgie and Gibson switch ends

 

[The Abusement Park]

If Annunen is SO BAD, that Bednar can't play him unless Georgiev is injured or we are on a b2b, then something should've been done to address the situation. Hence, they picked up Kähkönen. My only guess is that CMac was thinking that Annunen is going to be the legit backup, but Bednar has simply refused to comply even though this was discussed during the summer. No other explanation for why they waited so long to pick up even Kähkönen, when a guy like Lankinen was available until camp at the same price.

And if this is the case, one has to wonder how long of a leash Bednar has, if he and CMac are at odds.

I mean something very clearly should’ve been done this offseason in net. I think it’s obvious that Annunens weaknesses are incredibly apparent and will be easily exploited if he plays consistently. Sucks how much the goalie position has been fumbled this last year.

 

[LOFIN]

I mean something very clearly should’ve been done this offseason in net. I think it’s obvious that Annunens weaknesses are incredibly apparent and will be easily exploited if he plays consistently. Sucks how much the goalie position has been fumbled this last year.

I was fine with the idea of trying it out with Annunen, but if Bednar is so stubborn that he just doesn't trust him, something else should've been figured out. Playing your starter 80% of the games isn't modern NHL, there are like 1 or two teams that do it and the others literally have a guy like Shesterkin, Hellebuyck or Vasilevsky in goal.

 

[UnkleKraker]

If Annunen is SO BAD, that Bednar can't play him unless Georgiev is injured or we are on a b2b, then something should've been done to address the situation. Hence, they picked up Kähkönen. My only guess is that CMac was thinking that Annunen is going to be the legit backup, but Bednar has simply refused to comply even though this was discussed during the summer. No other explanation for why they waited so long to pick up even Kähkönen, when a guy like Lankinen was available until camp at the same price.

And if this is the case, one has to wonder how long of a leash Bednar has, if he and CMac are at odds.

While it doesn't help us this year, we only need to look back to the draft to see that CMac did recognize the problem. Will it even help in this window is a valid question though.

 

[Pokecheque]

I was fine with the idea of trying it out with Annunen, but if Bednar is so stubborn that he just doesn't trust him, something else should've been figured out. Playing your starter 80% of the games isn't modern NHL, there are like 1 or two teams that do it and the others literally have a guy like Shesterkin, Hellebuyck or Vasilevsky in goal.

He is right not to trust Annunen, he was actually WORSE than Georgie in that season opener.

While it doesn't help us this year, we only need to look back to the draft to see that CMac did recognize the problem. Will it even help in this window is a valid question though.

It won't.

Really maddening that they kicked the can down the road forever, Hepple even said they picked Euro goalies way late in drafts so that they didn't have to bother with the time and money to develop them in-house. I would've actually been okay with that if the players they came up with turned into real assets, but we all know they didn't.

 

[Balthazar]

Because they know Annunen is worse. There’s no upside with Annunen, he’s a mid backup at best.

He's still far, far from there. I don't even think his ceiling is that high.

 

[Balthazar]

If Annunen is SO BAD, that Bednar can't play him unless Georgiev is injured or we are on a b2b, then something should've been done to address the situation.

Fans see Georgiev allowing all kinds of bad goals but the way the Avs dealt with the goaltending position after Francouz retired is the real reason why we are in this mess right now.

It's not Bednar, it's CMac.

 

[henchman21]

I don't think Annunen is a NHL caliber goalie at this point. All you have to do is get him to move a little bit and holes open up. NHLers will eventually figure that out. I'm sure the Avs and Bednar are well aware of this. Kahkonen is certainly athletic enough to play in the NHL, but his puck tracking makes Grubi look like a god in that area.

Fans see Georgiev allowing all kinds of bad goals but the way the Avs dealt with the goaltending position after Francouz retired is the real reason why we are in this position right now.

It's not Bednar, it's CMac.

Its the way the Avs have dealt with the position since Varly. They believe they can get by with a cheap starter and bottom of the barrel backup. They just happened to hit on the Frank signing where it didn't hurt them. It is an organizational philosophy.

None of that absolves the level of play we are seeing though.

 

[Pokecheque]

Remember, this is the same organization that had two very injury-prone starters and thought it was perfectly fine to go into the season with a career ECHL goalie who just happened to hit a hot streak in the AHL as their #3. They just don't seem to give a f*** about goaltending.

And Annunen represents the one time in, like, the last decade-plus where they actually put some real effort to draft and develop a goalie. And they traded DOWN to get him. The underlying philosophy when it comes to goaltending is just so warped and they haven't applied any effort toward course correction until literally this year.

 

[LOFIN]

 

[Pokecheque]

I was watching that Blomqvist guy playing for Pittsburgh and making the big saves. He wasn't perfect by any means but played more than well enough for the Pens to finally get back in it and win in OT. It'd be so nice to just have competent goaltending. Not stellar, just competent.

 

[dahrougem2]

Remember, this is the same organization that had two very injury-prone starters and thought it was perfectly fine to go into the season with a career ECHL goalie who just happened to hit a hot streak in the AHL as their #3. They just don't seem to give a f*** about goaltending.

And Annunen represents the one time in, like, the last decade-plus where they actually put some real effort to draft and develop a goalie. And they traded DOWN to get him. The underlying philosophy when it comes to goaltending is just so warped and they haven't applied any effort toward course correction until literally this year.

I think it's two-fold.

You can get by with the Avs strategy for goaltenders when your team is absurdly deep. The 2019-2022 teams were evidence of that.

Problem is as the Avs have had to pay the piper with contracts, they haven't shifted their mentality. So top-end and even depth players cost more money, they lose the insane depth they once had, they have to play stars even more but they still believe in cheap as f*** goaltending.

The mentality has to shift towards getting an above average to high-end starter. Otherwise, they're doomed unless they dump someone like Rantanen and spread the wealth which IMO would make us a much worse team unless the players they get back for Mikko are 2-3 NHL ready guys on ELCs.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

That's a lot of money for Oettinger IMO. He isn't nearly as good as Swayman in my eyes.

 

[Pokecheque]

That's a lot of money for Oettinger IMO. He isn't nearly as good as Swayman in my eyes.

Yeah, but he's still a legit franchise goaltender. That's pretty much market value for him.

 

[dahrougem2]

Crazy how over the last two seasons Oettinger and Wedgewood have basically identical GSAA/60 and xGA/60.

Oettinger seems like a guy who if he gets hot in the playoffs you're not beating him. But if he goes cold you're popping 5-6 on him.

 

[henchman21]

Legit, heavy workload starting goalie with a .914 career in today's NHL... yeah he's worth that.

Also, welcome to the new reality of NHL contracts. With the cap moving and new records for cap percentage, we're going to see this. The previous good, not great starting goalie rate was ~5.5-6m. That's moving to 7.5-8m soon. Elite players at positions are going to be 11-13+m. 2nd liners 8-9m. This isn't the NHL of 5-6 years ago with contracts anymore.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah, but he's still a legit franchise goaltender. That's pretty much market value for him.

I actually don't think he is, which was the point I was making.

Swayman is a franchise guy. Oettinger quite frankly is just more of that unreliable tier to me.

Better than the guys we've been rotating over the years but I wouldn't say much better. Certainly not someone I'd pay $8.25M for.

 

[Pokecheque]

I actually don't think he is, which was the point I was making.

Swayman is a franchise guy. Oettinger quite frankly is just more of that unreliable tier to me.

Better than the guys we've been rotating over the years but I wouldn't say much better. Certainly not someone I'd pay $8.25M for.

Swayman is arguably the best goalie in the league. Shestyorkin is about the only other guy who can make that argument. Oettinger isn't quite on that level IMO but he's still a guy you can build around.

I'd say he's a better version of Marc-Andre Fleury, with all the ups and downs that come with it.

 

[henchman21]

I actually don't think he is, which was the point I was making.

Swayman is a franchise guy. Oettinger quite frankly is just more of that unreliable tier to me.

Better than the guys we've been rotating over the years but I wouldn't say much better. Certainly not someone I'd pay $8.25M for.

If you combine the last 3 seasons, Otter's resume is actually similar to Swayman's and he's done it with a larger sample size (I do like Swayman more personally). Otter is something like 5th in Sv% over the last 3 seasons combined and 8th in GSAA. Last regular season was Otter's worst and he was still top 20 in Sv%. He was also great in the playoffs last year.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Swayman is arguably the best goalie in the league. Shestyorkin is about the only other guy who can make that argument. Oettinger isn't quite on that level IMO but he's still a guy you can build around.

I'd say he's a better version of Marc-Andre Fleury, with all the ups and downs that come with it.

Swayman, Shesty, Hellebyuck would be the 3 franchise guys for me. And Vasilievsky obviously used to be but not sure he still is.


But IMO after that group, everyone else pretty much falls into that unreliable tier and are not guys I'd want to be paying $8M for.


Oettinger is probably in a tier with guys like Markstrom, Demko, Saros, Sorokin... They're at the upper end of unreliable, but still simply not consistent enough to warrant the $8M paydays I don't think.


But I'm also team captain of the "Goalies are voodoo" squad.

 

[henchman21]

Swayman, Shesty, Hellebyuck would be the 3 franchise guys for me. And Vasilievsky obviously used to be but not sure he still is.


But IMO after that group, everyone else pretty much falls into that unreliable tier and are not guys I'd want to be paying $8M for.


Oettinger is probably in a tier with guys like Markstrom, Demko, Saros, Sorokin... They're at the upper end of unreliable, but still simply not consistent enough to warrant the $8M paydays I don't think.


But I'm also team captain of the "Goalies are voodoo" squad.

On the bolded 3 of the 5 are basically ~8m now. Markstrom and Demko are on contracts signed under the ~6m going rate. I doubt Markstrom at his age will get that deal... but Demko's next deal will be around 8m. This is just the new reality of the league.

What's probably worse is we are likely looking a future of the George/Grubi backups elsewhere getting a starting job going rate pushing to $5m.

 

[Pokecheque]

Swayman, Shesty, Hellebyuck would be the 3 franchise guys for me. And Vasilievsky obviously used to be but not sure he still is.


But IMO after that group, everyone else pretty much falls into that unreliable tier and are not guys I'd want to be paying $8M for.


Oettinger is probably in a tier with guys like Markstrom, Demko, Saros, Sorokin... They're at the upper end of unreliable, but still simply not consistent enough to warrant the $8M paydays I don't think.


But I'm also team captain of the "Goalies are voodoo" squad.

I agree with you insofar that sacrificing a huge chunk of cap for the goalie is almost never a good idea. but I don't think the Stars have any leeway here. The ideal time to push if you have one of those players is before they're up for the big payday. Once you start paying players what they're actually worth--and it's not just goalies, it's all the players--that's pretty much when the window closes.

 

[LOFIN]

What's probably worse is we are likely looking a future of the George/Grubi backups elsewhere getting a starting job going rate pushing to $5m.

Well that's not going to happen at the current rate. We've also had a very recent track record of these deals going BAD. Campbell, Husso, Korpisalo... And these guys at least had some promise before they signed their contracts. Georgiev, as it stands, has none. He would be lucky to get a contract at his current rate.

Also regarding Demko, that will be an interesting situation to monitor because skills wise he is absolutely up there. But the guy is made of glass. Are the Canucks going to commit long term to him?