Speculation: 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion: Preseason Edition

[Sky04]

My point is only that a goalie going GOD mode can cover up a lot of weaknesses and keep a team in any game/series

That's all I was saying.

So can a forward? We all miss McDavid in the playoffs the last 2 years with Stuart Skinner in net or what?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I don't think any of these people have ranked our farm systems better than like 20th since about 2014, yet we churn players out for our roster or others...

 

[Bartleby]

Pretty sure it's the loss of scoring depth and defensive loss that's a bigger factor than Vasy but yeah sure lmao.

Where do you think this team is without Kucherov this year? Not even sniffing a first round exit. Without Vasy were still getting in the playoffs and the only reason it's a back to back 1st round exit is because he shat the bed so bad the team couldn't make up for it.

He's so bad we're asking for an average goalie level performance and thatd be an improvement, that's like saying this team would be better if Kucherov was a 70 point forward

You keep making my point for me. Who cares where this team would have been last year without Kucherov? We were easily bounced in the first round with him playing at his all time best heading into the playoffs. It made no difference. Ask 32 GMs if they could only have one or the other whether they would want Kucherov at his best or if they would want Vasy at his best come playoffs. It's not even a discussion.

 

[DFC]

You keep making my point for me. Who cares where this team would have been last year without Kucherov? We were easily bounced in the first round with him playing at his all time best heading into the playoffs. It made no difference. Ask 32 GMs if they could only have one or the other whether they would want Kucherov at his best or if they would want Vasy at his best come playoffs. It's not even a discussion.

I think it's more like, Vasy just can't play like garbage. If he gets to a certain level (above average?) then the new "biggest" problem is scoring depth. But when he is as bad as he was for much of last year, you're not gonna outscore the problem come playoff time. The better example is probably the year before vs. the Leafs, where we looked to be clearly the better team, but their bad goaltending was better than our atrocious goaltending.

We will see how Vasy deals with the floaters from the point this year. Seems like the story on it is out now, so I would expect teams to be using it on a nightly basis.

 

[Felonious Python]

The real question is how many Stanley Cups would we have won last year with the thousands of draft picks we traded for Jeannot?

 

[Sky04]

You keep making my point for me. Who cares where this team would have been last year without Kucherov? We were easily bounced in the first round with him playing at his all time best heading into the playoffs. It made no difference. Ask 32 GMs if they could only have one or the other whether they would want Kucherov at his best or if they would want Vasy at his best come playoffs. It's not even a discussion.

Yeah let's play in make belief land where Vasy is even close to being able to perform like that. Ask 32 GMs who'd they'd take right now and it's not even a discussion.

Put both players on a random team and it's obvious who's less likely to shit the bed. Kucherov has carried teams to the playoffs, Vasy hasn't even come close to doing that let alone carry a non stacked team by your logic losing in the first round is a worse result than not making the playoffs at all

 

[Bartleby]

I think it's more like, Vasy just can't play like garbage. If he gets to a certain level (above average?) then the new "biggest" problem is scoring depth. But when he is as bad as he was for much of last year, you're not gonna outscore the problem come playoff time. The better example is probably the year before vs. the Leafs, where we looked to be clearly the better team, but their bad goaltending was better than our atrocious goaltending.

We will see how Vasy deals with the floaters from the point this year. Seems like the story on it is out now, so I would expect teams to be using it on a nightly basis.

We won Cups when Vasy was Vezina/Conn Smythe worthy and we are not as good top to bottom now as we were then. An average or just above average Vasy will not cut it with this team. He simply has to be great again for us to have any chance at all to go deep.

 

[DFC]

We won Cups when Vasy was Vezina/Conn Smythe worthy and we are not as good top to bottom now as we were then. An average or just above average Vasy will not cut it with this team. He simply has to be great again for us to have any chance at all to go deep.

Neither will otherworldly Vasy cut it if not everyone else is on their A game. As good as Vasy was in those cup wins, the team in front of him was a monster. I do think we would have won either of those cups with Vasy playing at a lower level.

 

[Rschmitz]

Completely false, Kucherov is by far the most important piece right now unless you've been living under a rock. Vasy can miss half a season and play like the shit the other half and this team still makes the playoffs comfortably.

This team trades Vasy tomorrow and I comfortably trust them to still be a good team and JBB to find a solid replcaement, we trade Kucherov with Vasy in net still and I'm betting no playoffs.

That's your supporting evidence? When Kucherov missed an entire season, we had the playoffs wrapped up by midseason and won a cup. Last year it took until after the TDL to find our footing and hold onto a playoff spot.

I acknowledge your point, but I think it's more complex than taking a surface level look at the standings. Not sure the Oilers are the model team to emulate either considering it was so bad at one point last season that they fired their coach before ultimately turning it around.

 

[Sky04]

That's your supporting evidence? When Kucherov missed an entire season, we had the playoffs wrapped up by midseason and won a cup. Last year it took until after the TDL to find our footing and hold onto a playoff spot.

I acknowledge your point, but I think it's more complex than taking a surface level look at the standings. Not sure the Oilers are the model team to emulate either considering it was so bad at one point last season that they fired their coach before ultimately turning it around.

Half-season with a significantly better team and weaker competition than there is now, obviously you know that, replace Vasy with Kucherov on IR last year and you're smart enough to know where we would've been.

It's not really that complicated, I can see this team performing well with any of 15-20 other goalies in the league given Vasy's performance the last 2 years and his awful caphit, take Kucherov out and this offensive lineup makes no sense, there are maybe 2 players in the league at his replacement level, both of which cost significantly more.

Not sure why there's even an argument over a 144 point forward at 9.5M vs a .900 goalie at the same price on value.

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm not sure what we are expecting. The only sign I got from the offseason is that we think we're gonna win every game 2-1 with 1 line doing all the scoring again and that's why we got Guentzel and made all the changes we did to our defense.

*sarcastic cheering*

This won't possibly backfire

 

[Sky04]

I think it's more like, Vasy just can't play like garbage. If he gets to a certain level (above average?) then the new "biggest" problem is scoring depth. But when he is as bad as he was for much of last year, you're not gonna outscore the problem come playoff time. The better example is probably the year before vs. the Leafs, where we looked to be clearly the better team, but their bad goaltending was better than our atrocious goaltending.

We will see how Vasy deals with the floaters from the point this year. Seems like the story on it is out now, so I would expect teams to be using it on a nightly basis.

I mean that's just the position in general not any implication of how valuable Vasy is himself... no team in the league is going to out-perform dog shit goaltending that doesn't mean Stuart Skinner is more valuable than McDavid.

Best thing JBB showed this off-season is he's willing to trim the fat where necessary and he knows where we have bad value on the team, don't see him sitting still if we get another sub-par performance at 9.5M in net.

 

[Rschmitz]

Half-season with a significantly better team and weaker competition than there is now, obviously you know that, replace Vasy with Kucherov on IR last year and you're smart enough to know where we would've been.

It's not really that complicated, I can see this team performing well with any of 15-20 other goalies in the league given Vasy's performance the last 2 years and his awful caphit, take Kucherov out and this offensive lineup makes no sense, there are maybe 2 players in the league at his replacement level, both of which cost significantly more.

Not sure why there's even an argument over a 144 point forward at 9.5M vs a .900 goalie at the same price on value.

So in other words, we shouldn't look at the standings and who missed how many games in which season and make a determination. Glad you agree, it's pretty useless to bring up at all considering how much nuance is involved.

I said I acknowledged your point and agree with your conclusion, but you have a tendency to conflate information to such an extent that just about every time I have to add a caveat. You really have a gift at presenting agreeable truths wrapped up in a disagreeable little package.

 

[DFC]

I mean that's just the position in general not any implication of how valuable Vasy is himself... no team in the league is going to out-perform dog shit goaltending that doesn't mean Stuart Skinner is more valuable than McDavid.

Best thing JBB showed this off-season is he's willing to trim the fat where necessary and he knows where we have bad value on the team, don't see him sitting still if we get another sub-par performance at 9.5M in net.

Yeah, as great as Vasy is, HOF great, Kucherov is at an all time level. Gotta be in the top 10 wingers to ever play, at least based on peak.

There was a point where I think Vasy was getting into some big conversations too, but his last couple of years has put that on hold, IMO.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

Free hockey streams.

https://www.flohockey.tv/articles/12792714-olympic-hockey-qualifiers-how-to-watch-nhl-prospects-like-david-reinbacher

Bellemare, Girgensons, Lilleberg, and TB prospect Noah Steen will play games this week.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Yzerman once again picking up a former Bolt.

 

[Point21]

Free hockey streams.

https://www.flohockey.tv/articles/12792714-olympic-hockey-qualifiers-how-to-watch-nhl-prospects-like-david-reinbacher

Bellemare, Girgensons, Lilleberg, and TB prospect Noah Steen will play games this week.

will definitely be keeping tabs on Noah Steen this year. Seems to fit the "Lightning" mold and could be a decent bottom 6 energy PK guy in a few years

 

[Outl4w]

My point is only that a goalie going GOD mode can cover up a lot of weaknesses and keep a team in any game/series

That's all I was saying.

Vasi hasn't been had GOD mode for three seasons.

Watson brought more than jeannot. For league minimum I or pwo am not sure why we didn't sign him.

 

[Felonious Python]

Vasi hasn't been had GOD mode for three seasons.

Watson brought more than jeannot. For league minimum I or pwo am not sure why we didn't sign him.

I wouldn't think that a guy like Watson would want to come back to the same team on a PTO unless he absolutely had to.

TBL had him for an entire season, and apparently didn't make a worthwhile offer.

 

[Master P]

> Crying about Vassy before the season even begins.

 

[DFC]

> Crying about Vassy before the season even begins.

What else are we going to talk about other than what we've seen and what needs to happen in order to have a chance this year?

 

[JoVel]

Jeannot sure sucks doesn't he. Can't believe we traded a whole draft class to get hit.

 

[RDTBay4]

Shape up men.

 

[Sky04]

Jeannot sure sucks doesn't he. Can't believe we traded a whole draft class to get hit.

That Sergachev guy sucks too we should trade him.