Speculation: 2024-2025 General Lightning Discussion IV
- Thread starter AlwaysSunnyInTampa
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JTBF81
Registered User
The defense has some issues, especially on the 3rd pairing, but I wouldn't call it a mess. They were a mess last year, amd goaltensing was overall bad. This year, both are much better and top 5 in the league. Game one was bad from basically everyone, but game two was solid from the defense and Vasy. When you allow one goal, have the #1 offense in the league and don't win that game, the problem isn't with your defense or goaltending.
JTBF81
Registered User
This team is capable of winning against Florida and Toronto, but whether it's the system they have in place having been figured out, the players not having the same fire as they did before the b2b's (which I find hard to believe), or a personnel issue with depth, what isn't going to happen is JBB walking up to any of Point, Hagel, Cirelli etc and being like yeah we're going to trade you. For at least next season, Tampa has 8 or 9 F, 4 dmen amd 1G locked in. You move Sheary and you have just over 9 million to sign Goncalves, a backup G, and 2-3 others.
The space will be there to address the bottom 6 and a defensive add, but it won't be for any big fish that may be available. I don't believe that either management or Cooper believes the main core is incapable of going deep again and possibly winning another title, so it's about filling in the supporting pieces better for next season, perhaps both coaching and players, and continuing with the search for the perfect recipe in this re-rool. But as far as a re-build where big names under contract are getting moved, nah, that's not happening until JBB feels they can no longer compete (which shouldn't happen for at least another several seasons with the right support moves).
The space will be there to address the bottom 6 and a defensive add, but it won't be for any big fish that may be available. I don't believe that either management or Cooper believes the main core is incapable of going deep again and possibly winning another title, so it's about filling in the supporting pieces better for next season, perhaps both coaching and players, and continuing with the search for the perfect recipe in this re-rool. But as far as a re-build where big names under contract are getting moved, nah, that's not happening until JBB feels they can no longer compete (which shouldn't happen for at least another several seasons with the right support moves).
Coopers Gum
Extend Andrej Sustr
What have you seen out of the last two games that makes you think we are better than Florida or Toronto? Because I haven't seen it. The score last night was not really indicative of the level of competition either. Yeah, let's say a goal or two goes our way in an empty net we missed. Doesn't change the fact that were were out hustled and outplayed in the whole two games just about.
JTBF81
Registered User
1st game, but not entirely the 2nd. They were competitive with Florida all reg season and the last two games vs Torontl. It doesn't really matter though, as the re-tool was likely noy just a one year process, and now JBB will use his cap space, and possibly with a Howard trade, fill in the edges and attempt to get the right supporting cast for next season and hopefully, beyond.
Some on here think trading guys like Point, Cernak, and others in the core and bringing in new equivalent and no doubt more expensive players is going to solve everything. First, that basically never happens for a team, as in most cases, when you start tearing apart tbe main core, the team is usually done for a few years. 2nd, Tampa has no 1sts to draft new talent, and finally, most of these guys have full ntc's.or.nmc's, so they'd laugh at JBB asking for a trade.list and, if.by some miracle he did, he'd get bent in the trade because it would be likely 1 or maybe 2 teams he could deal with JBB had s plan to re-configure the roster, and it's almost, but not quite there. This offseason and probably next is when he'll add the final pieces to the puzzle, and hopefully set the team up for at least 2 or 3 more good shots at it.
Both Florida and Toronro are very good, and have also been re-working their rsoters over the last few years. It's not as though they weren't good when Tampa was going to the Final three straight years, but Tampa had some unbelievable depth that was unsustainable due to the flat cap. Now perhaps those teams are just better than Tampa, who is still a very good team, but it doesn't mean you blow up your core because you lost to a better team in an unfortunate 1st rd pairing over a couple of years.
Power Surge
Registered User
I mean.... yeah. But if one does that, they might want to accept that it comes with the possibility that we may not win another playoff series again. We are too slow to defend Leafs and not physically capable of engaging the Panthers. And last I checked, we aren't in danger of playing anyone else in round 1 and 2 for probably the foreseeable future.
You and I (well... maybe me) have gone in circles about this but if we aren't going to make a major shift either our philosophy or roster construction this summer, we can start talking about the rebuild. Our division has been built specifically to beat us. Yes the Panthers are good. But it should never be to the point that a routine goal is as much of an accomplishment as winning a game.
We are too slow, too small and lack too much focus to be this freaking predictable this often. I know you often mention Scotty often. But that dude won with (and lost to) teams that would eat the Panthers for a snack. We either need to get insanely lucky in our roster reconstruction or use it differently.
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Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Probably a knee jerk post from me, but I missed game 2. Game 1 was the stuff of nightmares. I agree we are better defensively, but right now is when it matters and we have been outscored 8 to 2. Lol.
Cirelli playing more would have made a the difference in game 1 with the PK. We're rocking the "Old guys rule" shit with Glendening and Girgensons and get burned way too much.
I don't care how we do it. Both need to go ala Tanner Jeannot
Game 2 was at least a coin flip with shitty luck
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Funny thing is... Jeannots gonna be playing playoff hockey while we golf. Lol.
i agree though...
RussianGuyovich
Hella Ennui
- Jan 2, 2007
- 10,075
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Tanner was ineffective because no one would fight him. And I mean, no one on the panthers will even fight Lille, so I dunno how big of a difference tanner would be right now.
DaBolts
Stanley Cup Boat Parades ROCK
- Feb 3, 2015
- 14,982
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1 pm game
On the road.
No Hagel possibly.
Hurt Celery.
Vasy thinks it April 2023
And Cooper thinks the shell is how we should start the game.
What could go wrong?
GO BOLTS!
On the road.
No Hagel possibly.
Hurt Celery.
Vasy thinks it April 2023
And Cooper thinks the shell is how we should start the game.
What could go wrong?
GO BOLTS!
I don't think you actually watch the Leafs much. They are more Jon Cooper than Jon Cooper, and not all that fast.
It's just really hard to win. Losing Palat and Killorn was painful. Palat was a big part of why Kucherov was one of the best playoff performers of his generation. Before palat-point-kucherov, people thought Kuch was a bad playoff performer.
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
- 29,216
- 20,038
Nobody thought Kucherov was a bad playoff performer, he was one of if not the best every year from his sophomore season. Stamkos is the one who deservedly took all the flack. The only time anyone criticized Kucherov in the playoffs was for that suspension against Columbus.
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He absolutely had that reputation in the league, mainly based on the Washington series and the CBJ series. It wasn't really true, but he took it to a whole different level with Palat and Point.
Crunchrulz
Registered User
The problem with getting the extra CAP space is every team gets it and every agent knows how much each team has. The agents of players negotiating new contract with their current team will pump up the numbers they want for their client accordingly. Tampa is not as high a priority as it once was, especially for older players looking for that last Cup shot before the retire.
We dealt the future to win now, which any franchise would have done in our position. Before we end up like the Penguins, with a handful of old fan favorites making lots of money at the expense of the supporting cast, the organization needs to make a hard decision.
As other have noted, our lack of high draft picks over the next few drafts limits out rebuild from there. The only way to get picks back is to get top players to agree to change locations.
Pipeline is currently a trickle at best, with a couple of players that will contribute. Most of the others are occasional callups or AHL journeymen at best.
Tough decisions this offseason as to which way the team goes. Either way, there will be hurt feelings and complaints about poor management.
We dealt the future to win now, which any franchise would have done in our position. Before we end up like the Penguins, with a handful of old fan favorites making lots of money at the expense of the supporting cast, the organization needs to make a hard decision.
As other have noted, our lack of high draft picks over the next few drafts limits out rebuild from there. The only way to get picks back is to get top players to agree to change locations.
Pipeline is currently a trickle at best, with a couple of players that will contribute. Most of the others are occasional callups or AHL journeymen at best.
Tough decisions this offseason as to which way the team goes. Either way, there will be hurt feelings and complaints about poor management.
Major4Boarding
Unfamiliar Moderator
God I hope I don’t have to post this in the GDT tomorrow
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Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
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He had 60 points in 63 playoff games when PPG playoff runs were considered elite and most of that was before he broke out, so it's other way around he was considered a very good playoff performer especially because he wasnt an "elite" forward just yet and expectations were lower.
Not sure how you can say he had that reputation after the 2015, 2016 and 2018 runs....the only thing people were noticing was how much Kucherov was stepping up in place of Stamkos who was the face of the franchise. You really think they thought he was a poor playoff performer after scoring 11 goals in 17 games in 16'? Lol.
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Ducati Boy
HF Original
- Feb 7, 2018
- 1,349
- 1,828
I’m wondering why no one is harping on Tkachuk’s ‘miraculous’ first playoff game healing, while the LTIR payoff netted them Jones and cushioned the Marchand contract.
DistantThunderRep
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2018
- 19,513
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Because no one cares when everyone else does it.
JTBF81
Registered User
They are still in win now mode, and sacrificing big $ players for picks isn't getting them any closer, unless they are once again moving those picks quickly. Tampa still seems like a pretty good destination, as they just got Guentzel last offseason. This offseason isn't necessarily about adding any big names, just tweaking the depth to make the supporting cast better. They'll have 9 million after hopefully moving Sheary, and even after signing Goncalves and a backup G, they should have 6-6.5 to sign or promote a bottom pair dman and 2 4th line forwards. The space will be there.
Crunchrulz
Registered User
There is a reason the Crunch Goalies shared the Top AHL Goaltender award with the Laval Pair. Regardless of his one game performance for Tampa, Halverson literally carried the Crunch on his back for the first two plus months of the season and that is why he was selected the team's MVP. Give him a legit shot.
As for the bottom pair on defense, the Crunch have a few options including First Team AHL Defenseman Pouliot. His play should have earned him a legit shot at Tampa, and at 31 he is not a younger player prone to mistakes.
I have to agree fourth line is the biggest hole. Many may not understand the importance of the fourth line but look what has happened to the Lightning since the fourth line has been a virtual revolving door of players. Find three players who relish the fourth line role, sign them, and leave them together for the year to cause havoc, hate, and discontent. Get the other team so riled up at the fourth line that they seemingly forget about the other three and then watch the talent on the other three shine.
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