2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.
- Thread starter simon IC
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ChicagoBlues
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- Oct 24, 2006
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And looks like a younger version of Ron Jeremy?
It’s pure fantasy so it’s not worth getting bogged down with but yes that would be an absolute no brainer to me.
Dude, I just don't know what I think about the core 4 guys.
On one hand, there are tons of examples of guys having a change of scenery and quickly rinsing off the stink of failure: Phil Kessel is an obvious example, but I often think of Marian Hossa or even Hully himself. Marner and Matthews are objectively talented and I would be willing to bet both will be highly successful in a new city, especially if they don't have to be 'the guy' and can live in general anonymity.
Then again, the level to which that core has bungled a cup window is maybe the worst in hockey history. Its just staggering. Not every year was explicitly their fault (they have never, ever adequately addressed their defense) but M and M have been historically putrid in the clutch. Sheer futility. Is that their fault, or is a bad team just repeatedly been schooled by better made, better coached teams?
No one has an answer, especially not Marner or Matthews.
While I would not accept that linked trade proposal, if there was a Schenn and Buchnevich + base on the table for Matthews and he'd waive...I would really have to think about it. Thomas + Matthews is a top 5 center combo in hockey. Games 4-7 aside the guy is a historic goal scoring machine. Responsible Grinder + Matthews + Kyrou would be utter filth. It would open new holes on the roster (we would have to be very active in FA and other trades) but man, I would have to consider it.
Of course, Schenn already nixed a trade to Toronto just like 3 months ago. Not too sure he's more willing to go now.
On one hand, there are tons of examples of guys having a change of scenery and quickly rinsing off the stink of failure: Phil Kessel is an obvious example, but I often think of Marian Hossa or even Hully himself. Marner and Matthews are objectively talented and I would be willing to bet both will be highly successful in a new city, especially if they don't have to be 'the guy' and can live in general anonymity.
Then again, the level to which that core has bungled a cup window is maybe the worst in hockey history. Its just staggering. Not every year was explicitly their fault (they have never, ever adequately addressed their defense) but M and M have been historically putrid in the clutch. Sheer futility. Is that their fault, or is a bad team just repeatedly been schooled by better made, better coached teams?
No one has an answer, especially not Marner or Matthews.
While I would not accept that linked trade proposal, if there was a Schenn and Buchnevich + base on the table for Matthews and he'd waive...I would really have to think about it. Thomas + Matthews is a top 5 center combo in hockey. Games 4-7 aside the guy is a historic goal scoring machine. Responsible Grinder + Matthews + Kyrou would be utter filth. It would open new holes on the roster (we would have to be very active in FA and other trades) but man, I would have to consider it.
Of course, Schenn already nixed a trade to Toronto just like 3 months ago. Not too sure he's more willing to go now.
ChicagoBlues
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- Oct 24, 2006
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Or how about Nylander? Did anyone else see him on the bench in the 3rd period sitting next to Matthews. Both of them had thick silver chains on with Nylander making sure that his was visible outside of his jersey. And then the handshake line? Looked like he took it off or stuffed it way down.
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If I had to rank the centers that could be available by which I’d prefer
1. Horvat - you get the most (5) good years of a bonafide talent. Potentially available due to change in gm and maybe therefore team direction.
2. Tavares or Bennett - you get later years of a bonafide talent. Potentially available due to ufa.
3. McLeod - you get early and later years of a non-bonafide talent. Potentially available due to Sabres. Could end up being cheap if the market perceives that McLeod will only sign in a few places which would shoot the guy to the top of the list but it’s hard to predict that you’re gonna rip somebody off.
4*. Larkin - similar to Horvat but probably harder to acquire. Probably has to demand a trade. Probably isn’t traded but ya never know.
I’d rather pay for Horvat than get bennett or Tavares for free. But I’d much rather get one of those 2 for free than the other 2.
1. Horvat - you get the most (5) good years of a bonafide talent. Potentially available due to change in gm and maybe therefore team direction.
2. Tavares or Bennett - you get later years of a bonafide talent. Potentially available due to ufa.
3. McLeod - you get early and later years of a non-bonafide talent. Potentially available due to Sabres. Could end up being cheap if the market perceives that McLeod will only sign in a few places which would shoot the guy to the top of the list but it’s hard to predict that you’re gonna rip somebody off.
4*. Larkin - similar to Horvat but probably harder to acquire. Probably has to demand a trade. Probably isn’t traded but ya never know.
I’d rather pay for Horvat than get bennett or Tavares for free. But I’d much rather get one of those 2 for free than the other 2.
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Horvat would be great, but NYI winning the lottery changes a lot. Before that, I would have bet they did a fire sale rebuild. Now that they can add Schaefer to Dobson and Romanov and use Pulock and Pelech as veteran, stay at home guys? That's a legitimately great D-core in front of an elite goalie in Sorokin. I could easily see them holding onto Horvat as a result.
Reality Czech
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Not a chance that moves the needle for Matthews. 20 other teams would beat that offer easily, and I'm sure the Leafs are getting top prospects and 1sts if Matthews is ever made available.
Regarding their core 4, I am not a fan at all of teams rewarding young guys so early in their careers. Bobby Orr mentioned something related in his book I read a little while ago, that he's concerned with young guys making so much money too early in his career. I'm sure that for some guys it doesn't make a difference, but it makes you wonder if it takes away some of the hunger that younger players should have. These guys were treated like superstars before they really, truly earned the title. Obviously they are super skilled, but when the fans and media are pumping you up from the age of 20-22 I wonder what effect that has on a player's attitude, work ethic, etc.
From a cap perspective I can see why teams want to lock young guys in early, but from a psychology point of view I don't like it. Hell, Toronto could have still paid Matthews and Marner a lot of money without going as high as they did, not to mention allowing them to hit free agency so early. Did the Leafs really have so little leverage that they had no choice but to give those deals out to Matthews and Marner when they did? Then, as a result, they had to pay Nylander more, maybe even JT. Plus, those huge deals no doubt hampered their ability to improve the team's depth. Seems like Toronto management really mishandled those guys early on and they are still paying for it now. I guess this is more suited for the around the NHL thread, but I'm just following your comment.
It’s worth remembering that Kyle Dubas signed those deals. Now, I like Dubas and think he’s made some smart moves, but he was an inexperienced GM going into several back-to-back negotiations. He didn’t do a good job there. He was also big on building one of the best prospect pipelines in the league, but his bench boss was Babcock and he was never going to play those guys. The list of dudes who wasted the prime of their careers riding the Marlies’ bus is long, and by the time they got to other teams (we were the final stop for more than a handful, oddly enough), they were already ruined.
The fact that TOR is the wealthiest team in the league means they’ve tried to shortcut their way to the top, and it hasn’t worked. They went out and hired the most expensive coach on the market (Babs) to coach a team full of young dudes, who that coach was notoriously bad with. They tried to paper over a shallow roster by paying big money in free agency, instead of taking their lumps early and letting their homegrown depth develop. By the time they righted those wrongs, the damage had already been done. So they panicked, and traded all of their futures in a weaker trade deadline.
Now they’re not good enough to compete in the playoffs, too top-heavy to tank/rebuild, and too asset-poor to retool. They’ve got too many holes and nothing but cash to fix it with, which further develops a culture where the money — not winning — is what matters most.
Those players were never playoff no shows. Marners and Mathews are the big reason the Leafs suck, leaving won't help.
TheOrganist
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- Feb 21, 2006
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I think the most interesting hypothetical in the Toronto fallout that is Blues related is Tavares. Would you offer him 4 years at $7 mil AAV as your stop gap 2C? I personally wouldn’t.
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Dr Robot
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Marner went point per game this playoffs so it’s hard for me to blame him. Matthews on the other hand has a 52goal/82 game pace in the regular season and 31 in the playoffs. That’s who I would consider moving if they had any post season ambition.
ChicagoBlues
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LogosBlue
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I don't know that this is true. They may have been AHL players all along. I don't think playing in the AHL for a long period actually ruins players. Playing too soon, does, but not playing too long.
It is a large fan base that is loud on a prospects board. Their prospects are constantly over hyped.
It’s a little of column A, a little of column B. The fans are overly high on mid prospects all the time, yes, but they’ve also drafted very well over the years.
Playing in the A too long hurts you as a player when you’re tearing that league up, you’ve earned your shot, but you won’t ever get it because the org won’t promote you. A learned helplessness sets in, and it saps those players of their drive. Or you settle into bad habits because who cares, you’re trapped. I think it’s very possible for guys to over-marinate, and actually I think it happens all the time.
greybush314
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What do you guys think about Aatu Raty? He's an RFA so maybe offer sheet hom at the 3rd value like Holloway. Or maybe through a trade. Seems like he could be a good fit in between Holloway and Kyrou.
ChicagoBlues
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I don't think we will see any signed offer sheets for a few years. GMs are on high alert.
I honestly haven't followed him at all since his draft year, all I remember is that he was the consensus #1 pick a few years before his draft year then his stock dropped rapidly and there were some issues with him. Has he done anything since then that would warrant an OS?
