2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

The number of goalies drafted in the first round that looked worth it in hindsight seems low. Nothing wrong with a 3rd or 4th round selection.
Yeah, I perfer the strategy of a shotgun approach with 3rd-5th round picks, sometimes maybe go with a 2nd if you really like someone. Maybe you don't take 1 every single draft because you do have to have room in the system, but in a 5 year draft cycle, get at least 3 in those mid-rounds, and chances are you'll get someone decent enough to make it, and maybe you even hit a homerun.
 
Yeah, I perfer the strategy of a shotgun approach with 3rd-5th round picks, sometimes maybe go with a 2nd if you really like someone. Maybe you don't take 1 every single draft because you do have to have room in the system, but in a 5 year draft cycle, get at least 3 in those mid-rounds, and chances are you'll get someone decent enough to make it, and maybe you even hit a homerun.
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That's the right approach. This chart is goalie draft picks since 2015. Basically if you're picking a guy in the first round, you are going to start him at some point. But there's a lot of smoke and mirrors with junior goalies, so guys that have been taken highly don't actually hit as often as you would like for the capital required there. And a guy taken in the 7th is not really statistically different in terms of likely GP from a guy taken in the 4th or 5th. The third really seems to be the sweet spot, or in other words, waiting until 3-5ish goalies go off the board has historically been a good time to start thinking about it.
 
I'm curious what people think around here about trading Hofer this offseason or in the coming years. Binnington is obviously older but he's still playing great and goalies tend to age well. I'd say he has at least 5 more years of quality hockey in him. I know Hofer has been thought of as the goalie of the future for awhile, but it looks like he could be stuck behind Binnington until his late 20s, which I imagine would not be something he would want to entertain. Blues have Ellis who is playing fantastic right now in the AHL as well. Hofer's contract is up this year.

I think the main thing that makes this difficult is that the goalie trade market is almost always a buyer's market. I wonder if that could change with a couple teams nearing their window closing in desperate need of a goalie like Edmonton. I am not sure where I stand on the matter. I just find it hard to see Hofer staying here happily behind Binnington until he's 28-30 years old. I know some people might say trade Binnington instead but I don't like that idea. Binnington is a proven starter who can play great when it matters. As I mentioned above, despite his age I still think he has a lot left in the tank. Hofer has been a good young backup but he is not a proven starter yet at all. That jump from backup to starter is massive. You get less favorable matchups and way more workload.

My gut tells me that this is a situation that will probably be punted down the line. We will likely sign him this offseason to a bridge deal and see where both Binnington and Hofer are at in two years. One thing to note in that situation is that if you sign Hofer for 2 or more years, you likely need to trade Ellis. You wont get much for him but he's already 24 and deserves a shot to make a team somewhere.
I'm in zero rush to trade Hofer. We have several more years of team control and while I might be the biggest Hofer fan in the world, he hasn't been so good that I'm worried about him getting poached yet.

But however you view Hofer/Ellis, absolutely zero decision should be made under the assumption that Binner has "at least 5 more years of quality hockey in him." That would take him through his age 36 season. While there are plenty of Hall of Fame goalies who have kept it going through their mid-late 30s, it is far from a given.

Henrik Lundqvist was 31 when he took the Rangers to the Final but was no longer up to his incredible standard starting in his age 34 season. Aafter 7 straight seasons of .920 goaltending, he was a .910 guy at age 34. While he was still a starter in his age 34-36 seasons, he was no longer the stud we remember.

Jonathan Quick's final .915+ season (and the last time he ever got Vezina votes was his age 32 season. He was sub-.900 in his age 33 and 35 seasons (plus .904 in his age 34 season).

Tuukka Rask took the Bruins to the Final in his age 31 season and was the Vezina runner up the next year in his age 32 season. He played 28 more games for the rest of his career.

Carey Price was himself through his age 32 season. He got the Habs to the Final in his age 33 season and then played 5 more career games.

Crawford won his 2nd Cup in his age 30 season and finished 5th in Vezina voting in his age 31 season. He had a great age 32 season and then had 3 more years where he looked good when he played, but was limited to under 40 starts each year until retiring after his age 35 season.

Bishop was a stud from age 27 to age 32 (when he finished runner up for Vezina and damn near stole a series from us in 2019). He played 43 more NHL games after that.

These guys weren't flashing warning lights on the dash at age 31 and I'd argue that most/all had more stable/impressive resumes than Binner's last few years taken as a whole. The position has never been harder on the hips than it currently is and goaltending is a position where one injury can forever destroy your ability to do what you need to do to be successful.

Binner absolutely could continue to be what you need in net into and through his mid-30s, but it is far from a given. We absolutely should not be moving out other goalies based on an assumption that he's your guy for the entirety of a 5 year window. Especially since he needs a new contract 2 years from now and did a fantastic job maximizing his leverage to get full market value in his last 2 contract negotiations. If he keeps up his level of play for the next couple years (and maybe has an Olympic gold and/or more playoff success) he should absolutely be looking for a long-term deal that takes him to age 38 or beyond.

Unless a team offers us something that you just can't pass up, I think you bridge Hofer for 2 years, which puts all 3 goalies on the same contractual timeline. Then you make a decision when you have to.
 
I wonder what it would take to make Willander a Blue?

Probably Dvorsky. Don't think they will bite on any of our other prospects.


I did think of a more expanded trade, that I posted a while ago.

Willander, Pettersson (forward) for Dvorsky, Ralph, Faulk, 25 1st, 26 1st

Pettersson's value, at his current caphit and lack of production is at an all time low and Vancouver would very likely want to move him. Getting both would fill both holes at 2C and RD. Both players are in the right age group and have the talent to play a big role for years to come.

This is a huge gamble for us, as we're putting all our bets on Monty being able to return Petey back to his 22/23 form. IF it works, it would be a huge steal (even with his current caphit) and instantly make us a contender for years to come. If it doesn't... well... that would hurt. Like a lot. However, young-ish elite centers are very rarely available for a return that is 'attainable'.
 
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Probably Dvorsky. Don't think they will bite on any of our other prospects.


I did think of a more expanded trade, that I posted a while ago.

Willander, Pettersson (forward) for Dvorsky, Ralph, Faulk, 25 1st, 26 1st

Pettersson's value, at his current caphit and lack of production is at an all time low and Vancouver would very likely want to move him. Getting both would fill both holes at 2C and RD. Both players are in the right age group and have the talent to play a big role for years to come.

This is a huge gamble for us, as we're putting all our bets on Monty being able to return Petey back to his 22/23 form. IF it works, it would be a huge steal (even with his current caphit) and instantly make us a contender for years to come. If it doesn't... well... that would hurt. Like a lot. However, young-ish elite centers are very rarely available for a return that is 'attainable'.

I'd give up Jiricek, Ralph, whatever prospect forward that isn't Dvorsky, Stenberg, or Snuggerud and our 2025 first, especially if Willander makes it clear he's not signing, therefore driving the value down.
 
I'd give up Jiricek, Ralph, whatever prospect forward that isn't Dvorsky, Stenberg, or Snuggerud and our 2025 first, especially if Willander makes it clear he's not signing, therefore driving the value down.
Dvo and our 1st in 2025 for Willander and their 1st in 2025? Lindstein and Willander were the best tandem in the world at their age not so long ago.
 
Dvo and our 1st in 2025 for Willander and their 1st in 2025? Lindstein and Willander were the best tandem in the world at their age not so long ago.
No way I trade Dvorsky. No way. Not even for Willander. I don't know who I compare him to, but his offensive instincts, shot, and ability to be a top six center (the only one in our pool) all at his young age are not something I trade. And I don't want #15 in what is a very weak class.
 
Dvo and our 1st in 2025 for Willander and their 1st in 2025? Lindstein and Willander were the best tandem in the world at their age not so long ago.

I think if the Blues valued Willander more than Dvorsky they would have taken him in the draft instead. Willander was the very next pick after Dvorsky. I think they view Dvorsky as heir apparent to the 2C spot, taking over for Schenn who will then move down the lineup. Army and co would view it as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I would do our 1st this year plus any of Ralph, Fischer, Pekarcik or Stancl. The only reason they would trade him at all is if this little dispute blows up and he refuses to sign there.
 
I think if the Blues valued Willander more than Dvorsky they would have taken him in the draft instead. Willander was the very next pick after Dvorsky. I think they view Dvorsky as heir apparent to the 2C spot, taking over for Schenn who will then move down the lineup. Army and co would view it as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I would do our 1st this year plus any of Ralph, Fischer, Pekarcik or Stancl. The only reason they would trade him at all is if this little dispute blows up and he refuses to sign there.
If Dvo can't improve his skating by a somewhat large margin, then he will be relegated to the wing, which makes him expendable.

I hope DA and company are considering this (they probably are) and pull the trigger on a Dvo trade before other GMs catch on that he may not make it as a NHL center.
 
If Dvo can't improve his skating by a somewhat large margin, then he will be relegated to the wing, which makes him expendable.

I hope DA and company are considering this (they probably are) and pull the trigger on a Dvo trade before other GMs catch on that he may not make it as a NHL center.

All it takes is a skating coach for a summer or 2, Backes did the same and improved tremendously
 
All it takes is a skating coach for a summer or 2, Backes did the same and improved tremendously
I'm certainly not clamoring to trade him, but, at the same time, I'm not afraid to pull the trigger on a trade if the probability (by consensus) is that his skating will not improve enough.

I know that this is impossible to know right now, but DA jettisoned Rundblad and Bokk when he and his team identified fatal flaws. I don't think they've identified a fatal flaw in Dvo, otherwise he'd be gone by now.
 
If Dvo can't improve his skating by a somewhat large margin, then he will be relegated to the wing, which makes him expendable.

I hope DA and company are considering this (they probably are) and pull the trigger on a Dvo trade before other GMs catch on that he may not make it as a NHL center.

I keep seeing people beating this drum. His skating isn't bad, it's just not one of his strengths. He didn't seem to have an issue keeping up with the pace of play during his cup of coffee up here. Not every center needs to be a burner. Most are not, we just think of guys like MacKinnon and McDavid and think to be successful you have to keep up with them. Draisaitl isn't a particularly fast skater. To me it is more about 2 way play, effort and creative, all boxes that Dvorsky checks.
 
I keep seeing people beating this drum. His skating isn't bad, it's just not one of his strengths. He didn't seem to have an issue keeping up with the pace of play during his cup of coffee up here. Not every center needs to be a burner. Most are not, we just think of guys like MacKinnon and McDavid and think to be successful you have to keep up with them. Draisaitl isn't a particularly fast skater. To me it is more about 2 way play, effort and creative, all boxes that Dvorsky checks.
I thought he looked okay in his two games, but Perry has watched him a ton, so I will defer to his opinion on Dvo's skating.
 
I keep seeing people beating this drum. His skating isn't bad, it's just not one of his strengths. He didn't seem to have an issue keeping up with the pace of play during his cup of coffee up here. Not every center needs to be a burner. Most are not, we just think of guys like MacKinnon and McDavid and think to be successful you have to keep up with them. Draisaitl isn't a particularly fast skater. To me it is more about 2 way play, effort and creative, all boxes that Dvorsky checks.
Agreed. And as he physically matures his skating should improve. Likely never a strength, but I’m not worried about it. Feel like it matter of when not if he becomes quality nhl center.
 
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Yeah I don’t see Dvorskys skating precluding him from sticking at C in the NHL. That kid is a C, very little doubt in my mind.
 
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I’m glad to hear this.
I could be wrong, definitely wouldn’t be the first time haha. And Perry has definitely watched more AHL games than me.

But I’ve watched some AHL games + WJC + OHL, and everything I’ve seen points to Dvorsky sticking at C. He’s got the brain, the skill, and the drive to make it IMO.

He’s our Kopitar
Kopitar isn’t the comp I’d use personally. Not sure defense will ever be Dvorsky’s calling card like it was for Kopitar…the guy finished top 5 in Selke voting 6 times! Not that Dvorsky will be a black hole defensively, but he’s a scorer first and foremost.
 
I think if the Blues valued Willander more than Dvorsky they would have taken him in the draft instead. Willander was the very next pick after Dvorsky. I think they view Dvorsky as heir apparent to the 2C spot, taking over for Schenn who will then move down the lineup. Army and co would view it as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I would do our 1st this year plus any of Ralph, Fischer, Pekarcik or Stancl. The only reason they would trade him at all is if this little dispute blows up and he refuses to sign there.
That’s the point, the only reason they trade him at all…have to give to get a RHD of his caliber. It’s not like the ridiculous Noah Dobson packages. Dvo may stick at center. I’m not ruling it out. Long path to get there defensively, faceoffs, and skating. Not impossible unless he isn’t that motivated. That is the unknown factor. Will he put in the work? Backes did and continued to. What is the cost of a Willander caliber prospect? I say a lot. Dvo is a lot. I’m also asking to move up 4 draft spots or more.
 
There’s uncertainty with any prospect. I don’t feel bad at all for keeping my chips on the guy that just scored 45 points in the AHL as a teenager, while leading his team in scoring for most of the season. I think keeping faith in Dvorsky is a good bet to make at this point.

Willander is very good, and I would welcome him gladly. I am in favor of making a legit offer for him. But there isn’t a world where — at this point in their careers — that TW is worth our top prospect who plays a premium position, AND a 1st, AND another top prospect. There are basically no NHL prospects for whom that would be a fair price. No NHL GM is betting the farm like that. If TW is even on the trade block at all, it is because VAN has lost control of the situation, and lost at least some of their leverage to get a truly premium return. Let alone the fact that 20YO college players don’t get that kind of return anyways.
 
I think if we’re serious about Willander we’re going to have to give from the roster, and I don’t know if we should be doing that.

Bolduc makes the most sense in my mind and I’d guess Vancouver would need to add like a 2nd to balance that out.

I particularly like what Bolduc brings but can see benefits of it, although it’s a large risk.
 
I wouldn't do a Dvorsky for Willander swap where the rest of the package is simply evening out overall value. I think that they are roughly comparable talents and right now C is just a more pressing need organizationally than RHD over the 5 year window that I believe exists with this group.

I'm comfortable banking on Parayko to be top-pair caliber for another couple years and top 4 caliber for a couple after that. I'm comfortable with Broberg as a long-term top-4-to-top-pair caliber LD. I'm comfortable with Fowler as a top pair guy next year with the potential to be top 4 for a bit beyond that. And I love our LHD prospect pool (both Lindstein as an eventual top 4 guy with several other guys who could be real NHL players. And while Faulk has his share of faults, I'm comfortable with him as a #4 in the short term.

RD is an organizational hole, but I think that you can have that solution be the '2nd' guy on your 2nd pair in the short term and medium term.

I think that the eventual solution at 2C needs to be better than that. Schenn is barely a good enough 2C right now (and is very arguably already not quite good enough) and certainly can't still be filling that hole in 3 years. Internally, Dvorsky is the only guy who I think could plug that hole in the medium term. His skating doesn't concern me as a fatal flaw in his ability to be an effective #2 C. I still think he is an NHL center with the upside to be a damn good #2 C.

If I viewed Willander as a sizeable talent upgrade, then I'd be content deepening the organizational center hole to plug the RHD hole. But I don't see that gap.

My analysis could change if there is another move to address the center hole. But unless/until that happens, I'd only move Dvorsky for more of a sure thing.
 
I wouldn't do a Dvorsky for Willander swap where the rest of the package is simply evening out overall value. I think that they are roughly comparable talents and right now C is just a more pressing need organizationally than RHD over the 5 year window that I believe exists with this group.

I'm comfortable banking on Parayko to be top-pair caliber for another couple years and top 4 caliber for a couple after that. I'm comfortable with Broberg as a long-term top-4-to-top-pair caliber LD. I'm comfortable with Fowler as a top pair guy next year with the potential to be top 4 for a bit beyond that. And I love our LHD prospect pool (both Lindstein as an eventual top 4 guy with several other guys who could be real NHL players. And while Faulk has his share of faults, I'm comfortable with him as a #4 in the short term.

RD is an organizational hole, but I think that you can have that solution be the '2nd' guy on your 2nd pair in the short term and medium term.

I think that the eventual solution at 2C needs to be better than that. Schenn is barely a good enough 2C right now (and is very arguably already not quite good enough) and certainly can't still be filling that hole in 3 years. Internally, Dvorsky is the only guy who I think could plug that hole in the medium term. His skating doesn't concern me as a fatal flaw in his ability to be an effective #2 C. I still think he is an NHL center with the upside to be a damn good #2 C.

If I viewed Willander as a sizeable talent upgrade, then I'd be content deepening the organizational center hole to plug the RHD hole. But I don't see that gap.

My analysis could change if there is another move to address the center hole. But unless/until that happens, I'd only move Dvorsky for more of a sure thing.
Agreed. I am huge Willander fan, but if Dvo hits that is young 2c with great skill. We have no other path to get that. If Willander were 1d, it might be different, but he looks like 2d. Tremendously valuable and I’d give a lot, but not Dvo.
 
If the Canucks were interested in someone more fully developed, would you trade Neighbours (and perhaps a small+) for Willander? I'm not sure I would have if Snuggerud hadn't shown so much NHL readiness since his signing, but I think with what we've seen from Snuggerud and Bolduc this season, we could offset the loss of Neighbours pretty easily. They might be tempted to go that route for forward protection if they believe that they are going to be unable to bring both Suter and Boeser back, and that they are going to struggle to attract other UFAs to try to remain competitive. Seems like an Army move if our scouts are confident that Willander is pretty certain to be a Top 4 RD in the next year or two. Maybe add one of Burns or Fischer and they add one of their F prospects.
 
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Curious what people think of Tucker as a trade asset, current injury notwithstanding. We've undervalued some of our D over the years, only to see them flourish elsewhere (Mikkola, Walman, Dunn wasn't necessarily undervalued but was deemed acceptable to lose, even Ian Cole and I'm sure a few more). It's the nature of the game that another team finds untapped value in a player and gives them the opportunity to play. We do it, too.

Tucker has been steady, physical, mobile, tough and has a pretty good feel in the offensive zone. He's put quite a bit of good tape down this season, and I'm guessing other teams have noticed. Not saying he's a top target, but a solid 5-6 and possibly even an upgrade over somebody's 4.

In the context of Willander, would Tucker, Stancl and picks get us into the ballpark?
 

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