100% yes without hesitation.
2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.
- Thread starter simon IC
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Majorityof1
Registered User
Bedard is 19. In his D+2 season, Holloway was in the AHL putting up lower ppg than Bedard is in the NHL.
Bedard is a C. Bedard has less support.
It's not close, Even from Blues fans. That's not to take away from Holloway. So glad he's on the team. But Bedard is a teenager putting up similar numbers on a bad team. He was rightfully a 1st OA pick. Comparing a 23 yo to him at 19 does not diminish his value or potential.
I like the thought exercise, and would be curious who people think is the best player comp for Holloway right now? which player is he most even par with in the NHL?
I haven't seen Bedard have the motor and physicality and speed and defensive play that Holloway has. I wouldn't do it. Is the skill difference between Holloway and Bedard worth losing all of the other things Holloway brings? I don't think it is.
Bedard has worn a Hawks jersey and therefore is tainted irreparably. No thank you.
I’d add somewhere in between Brady and Matthew Tkachuk from the places he scores goals. He’s a different type of hard to play against than they are, and is a lot faster. They’re maybe a bit more ready to throw hands and try to agitate a bit more, a bit more power forwards.
It’s tough because he does a lot of everything….i keep thinking of ways he’s not like folks. Holloway will have one shift he’s pounding the puck from the blue line then another he’s trying to score between his legs in tight space near the net, and he finishes checks sometimes that seem extremely impactful but he doesn’t like goon it up.
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throw hands and try to agitate a bit more. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, lol.
Reality Czech
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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But there is no guarantee you'll be better. A team could end up like the Sabres. Even teams like the Red Wings and Senators have suffered quite a while without much to show for it. Honestly, I think there aren't that many tanking success stories unless you're bad/lucky enough to get the #1 overall pick, and even then you could end up with a Lafreniere instead of MacKinnon. I'm not a fan of the assumption that tanking automatically means we would be better off in +/- 5 years.
Another good point. If we had tanked worse in 2016 then maybe we wouldn't have drafted Thomas. We might have taken a higher-ranked prospect like Middelstadt or something. That's why I don't stress too much about draft position. The guy drafted 15th could easily end up being better than the guy taken 10th. And as we've seen there are other ways of acquiring top ten talent. Schenn, Bouwmeester, and Broberg were all high picks, so it's clearly possible to grab some of these guys without actually drafting them yourself.
BrokenFace
Registered User
I don't see anyone making this assumption, especially with Buffalo and Chicago struggling out of their blatant tank jobs. I also think you can look at the last decade plus of cup winners and recognize that tanking at one point was key for just about every team. There is an upside and a downside to getting a higher pick at the cost of competing in a given year, and there's an upside and a downside to going for it in a given year. This isn't directed at you, but it feels like we've been going in circles about this too much.
If always going for it always worked, then that's what every team would do. If tanking for years always worked, then that's what every team would do. I don't think anyone comes out looking good saying one strategy is stupid or invalid when history clearly shows there are times for both.
Also, I'm just not seeing anyone here calling for a 3+ year total rebuild, but that claim gets thrown around way too easily when people suggest taking a step back one year might bring greater success in the future. Someone here wanting a higher pick in a season in which we've been out of the playoffs for most of the year is not even close to calling for a bottom out rebuild, yet that gets brought up every page as though multiple posters are advocating for it. I believe "taking a step back to take more forward" is the pitch Army gave to Steen when we traded Stastny, but I could be misremembering. Either way, that step back came a year before the cup win.
Before anyone accuses me of wanting to tank, I'm all in on the playoffs this year now. Might change my mind if the team stutters badly enough down the stretch, but my preference is making the playoffs.
Brian39
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- Apr 24, 2014
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Overwhelmingly, excitedly, without a shadow of a doubt, and hitting the mute button so the Hawks don't hear me laughing at them during the trade call. I really, really, really, really, really disagree that the comparison can even be made between the two of them.
Bedard has 22 fewer career NHL games played than Holloway but has 41 more career points. Bedard has played every one of those games as a teenager and at a younger age than Holloway was when he played his first NHL game. This is Holloway's 4th pro season after playing NCAA in his D+1 season. He has 122 professional points through 222 professional games. This is Bedard's D+2 pro season and he has 115 NHL points through 137 NHL games. Just shy of Holloway's combined NHL/AHL total in his D+5 season. I don't see even a remote comparison.
I would be "set the building on fire" level livid if I found out we weren't willing to trade Holloway for Bedard.
Glad to see we still have some level of objectivity with regards to Holloway / Bedard.
The flip side is that Holloway is better today by a significant amount when measuring “well-roundedness” and has size and physicality that Bedard never will. The chance of Bedard stagnating and never become an above-PPG “star” is greater than zero. There’s still a good likelihood that he has another “leveling-up” or two coming, but there’s also a chance he remains in that tier below “star” and plateaus as a 70-80 point, 40-goal winger who is only average defensively.
I think if there was a “who do you take for ‘25-‘26 only, Bedard vs. Holloway”, poll it might be close, based on the state of the organizations and this years production. I’d expect a “for the future” poll to skew heavily in Bedard’s favor…but there’s a real chance that Holloway becomes a PPG winger in his own right and makes the comparison closer than anyone would have guessed in a few years.
The flip side is that Holloway is better today by a significant amount when measuring “well-roundedness” and has size and physicality that Bedard never will. The chance of Bedard stagnating and never become an above-PPG “star” is greater than zero. There’s still a good likelihood that he has another “leveling-up” or two coming, but there’s also a chance he remains in that tier below “star” and plateaus as a 70-80 point, 40-goal winger who is only average defensively.
I think if there was a “who do you take for ‘25-‘26 only, Bedard vs. Holloway”, poll it might be close, based on the state of the organizations and this years production. I’d expect a “for the future” poll to skew heavily in Bedard’s favor…but there’s a real chance that Holloway becomes a PPG winger in his own right and makes the comparison closer than anyone would have guessed in a few years.
MissouriMook
Still just a Mook among men
- Jul 4, 2014
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Probably an exercise in futility, but if there was interest, I wonder if we could get John Tavares to come here on a 2 x $8M deal. Leave Dvorsky in the AHL for another year then have JT tutor him in 2026-2027. You could run a Top 9 next season that would get pretty balanced minutes, something like:
Holloway-Thomas-Kyrou
Buchnevich-Tavares-Bolduc
Neighbours-Schenn-Snuggerud
You would still have Toropchenko, Sundqvist, Walker, and Joseph to round out the 4th line. JT is still a great faceoff man, still has plenty of offensive juice, and I don't think he really hurts you defensively. I'd still rather see us go big game hunting for a guy like Marner, but I think JT would make a great consolation prize on a two-year deal.
Holloway-Thomas-Kyrou
Buchnevich-Tavares-Bolduc
Neighbours-Schenn-Snuggerud
You would still have Toropchenko, Sundqvist, Walker, and Joseph to round out the 4th line. JT is still a great faceoff man, still has plenty of offensive juice, and I don't think he really hurts you defensively. I'd still rather see us go big game hunting for a guy like Marner, but I think JT would make a great consolation prize on a two-year deal.
ChicagoBlues
See
- Oct 24, 2006
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I like “what ifs”.
It would be a direct challenge heaped upon Dvo, which would be good. He would be forced to push himself and up his game. Or not.
Looks god but I would switch Schenn and Thomas. 1. Schenn has been with Holloway and Kyrou for aver half a year and they have been lights out. 2. Snuggy needs someone to feed him for the one-timer like Thomas can, and Neighbors is the heavy. JMHO
