2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[Frenzy31]

I agree with this assessment. Army sounds like he isn't pleased with the leadership group and your captain is certainly a big part of the leadership group.

I really like what I know of Schenn the person. He is very well respected around the league and is by all accounts great with the young guys. He's been a fantastic mentor for Neighbours. I think his leadership in terms of teaching young guys how to be good pros has been excellent.

But I'm not sure that he's been an effective leader for the game-to-game grind of a regular season.

Schenn has always frustrated me with his extended stretches of completely unimpactful play. I respect the way he ups his physicality to try and pull himself out of these slumps, but the flip side of that coin is that I think he too often needs the fight or big hit to get himself into games. This team comes out flat way too often and I can't help but wonder if that is in part a reflection of everyone waiting for something to draw them into the fight.

I do think it is worth remembering that Army was originally talking about not having a captain for 2023/24 before Schenn was named captain in training camp. Berube got fired a few months later and then Bannister got fired a year later. Slow starts and late-game collapses persist. Schenn has been awful in the last 7 games while the season has completely slipped away. I'm not saying that Schenn as the C is the problem, but I could see Army being ready to move on from it.

I know it is fun to dunk on Kyrou, but there is a reason that line really clicked when he was on it and has been a bit silent when he left.

I will be honest, I am not sold on adding another D at this point. I would much rather seek a difference maker on the O side of things. We have a lot of young guys, but no real game breaker and that is something we lack.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I thought Dobson struggles in his own end; which is why the Isles have no interest in signing him to a mega-deal. I don’t watch the Isles much, as I’m not a masochist, but I was under the impression that he was Bouchard-esque.

It's a fair question - I think he's improved significantly over the last few years. His xGF% has risen from 47.19 to 53.29 over the last four seasons (Including this one)

and over the last four years, outside of 22-23, he hasn't really been sheltered, getting about 50% ozone starts and faceoffs (Years match up to the chart above):

His xGA/60 over 2021-2024 was 2.74, which was slightly better then Ryan Pulock, who was a 2.78. This year, Dobson has an xGA/60 of 2.26. For reference, Parayko has an xGA/60 of 2.74 and 2.53 in those same brackets (With much more difficult zone start splits).

In every season of his career, including his rookie year, Dobson has outscored opponents at 5v5:

I'm pretty sure he's the real deal if we can sign him to a contract that makes sense.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

Agreed. You are taxed when you make money, when you spend money on goods or property, when you own property (every year), when you receive money you paid into SS. How many times are they going to tax the same dollar!!! This is why we had a tea party in this country!!!

Don't forget that if you happen to penny pinch enough to save/invest some money, you get taxed on the interest, dividends and capital gains. Pretty much a minimum of 4 times that each dollar of earnings get taxed.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

I have a hard time believing that Schenn will be traded. If he were though, and they were interested, I would be looking at a guy like Brandon Carlo on defense. Would really help fill out RHD and locked in at $4.1 million for a few more seasons. Big, physical and more of a Dman than an offensive force, but that's where Broberg should be grooming towards. Just don't realistically see the Bruins being a buyer vs seller given their current standing. He's a guy I would look at over the summer though.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

What is the price everyone would be comfortable paying for Dobson? Whats the biggest piece people are willing to send out?

 

[Xerloris]

What is the price everyone would be comfortable paying for Dobson? Whats the biggest piece people are willing to send out?

I assume it would have to cost Kyrou, that is if he's as good as people say but I don't know shit about him so I really have no comment other than no Thomas/Snuggy/Holloway etc.

 

[Celtic Note]

You’re looking at having a lineup of

Holloway - Thomas - Buchnevich
Neighbors - Texier - Kyrou
Bolduc - Sundqvist - Joseph
Walker - Faksa - Toropchenko

With pretty much no flexibility. Is that ok on paper? Sure, but it doesn’t give me hope of growth for the players not playing in the top line.

Are you saying if we trade him in season that this would be the line up or after the offseason? I noted that we would need to make moves in the off-season to rectify the center position so I will respond to the in season part.

I don’t mean this to come off snippy, but if twenty or so games in that lineup ruins a prospect, I would question if they would have ever panned out anyway.

Of the players in that lineup that I would be concerned about there is really only one: Bolduc. Everyone else is matured and on their way of the guys that I have much belief will become much.

I don’t love the way we have handled Bolduc this year even with Schenn in the lineup. So at this point I am not even sure things would get worse.

I also would probably try to spread out some of the talent from that top line in you roster to distribute some of the talent.

 

[MissouriMook]

Anyone else getting the Gut feeling Blues are going to take a run at Marner in the off season with the cap jumping?

I think he’s one guy that we need to take a swing at. One of my takeaways from this season is that coming in I believed we needed to add a defenseman that is better than anyone currently on the roster to contend, but now I believe we also need to add a forward better than anyone on the current roster.

 

[Celtic Note]

Does it have to be a large plus? Schenn without retention I see a large plus being necessary. This isn’t my wheel house but if Schenn was a UFA this year and we retained he would be worth a late round first (equivalent to Minnesota first given for Jireck). If we retained we would be retaining for three years at 3.25 million a year (Actual salary owed would be 4 mil split between the two clubs)

So you sell him as a 2C for this year and a cheap 3C for two years after that? What is that worth? Ask for a second and they agree good now we need a plus to be worth a third and change (to match Minnesota price paid for Jiricek). What winger prospect does New Jersey want that’s value is about a third? idk….if they say Scheen as a cheap 3C for two years is worth a third and you need second round value then I could see us adding something more significant.

Also it depends on what cap dump they send back….if puckpedia is correct then the Devils have just under 2.5 mil in cap space at the deadline so it doesn’t have to be significant. However if it is significant? How does that change the value?

The reason I mentioned Sutter is if they view Nemec as an injury call up for the playoffs they might be interested in him. My understanding is Nemec was called up recently and then benched so they might want better depth for a run.

Like I said it’s a Pipe dream and most fans on this sites would form a lynch mob for any GM who traded a young prospect for an aging vet. However, there is merit for New Jersey to consider it. They need center help this season and Scheen for two more seasons at a low cap hit means you don’t have to be desperate in FA this year to land a center with a rising cap. If New Jersey is happy with their right side and believe they can lock them all up this offseason Nemec would then have no where to go and they are trading him anyways. I am sure they would love for a young center but we as Blues fans know all too well how hard it is to find one of those.

I cannot see us retaining over the length of the contract.

I personally would have a hard time believing someone would give up a young guy like that for a vet on his last few legs without something decent added, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Spektre]

I would inquire about Nemec. Jersey is looking for a center. Maybe there’s a deal around Schenn

 

[StlBigFly]

I maybe wanna snipe Calum Ritchie from the Avs. Schenn seems like a better thing for them than Middlestadt. I’m glad we grabbed Otto Stenberg but on my little draft wish list I had us taking Ritchie there. Ritchie was drafted 2 picks after Stenberg.

But maybe the Crosby to Colorado stuff is real. I’m starting to believe.

 

[Mike Liut]

I’d love to get back to being a big, physical team.

 

[Celtic Note]

I’d love to get back to being a big, physical team.

We are top 5 in hits in the league and 7th in hits per 60. So what are you saying exactly?

 

[Mike Liut]

We are top 5 in hits in the league and 7th in hits per 60. So what are you saying exactly?

Are all hits equal? Do we just hit to hit, or are we punishing people? Do our D clear the crease? Do we have any physical presence in front of the net? We are far and I mean far from being a physical team.

 

[Spektre]

We are top 5 in hits in the league and 7th in hits per 60. So what are you saying exactly?

There’s no way I trust that stat being accurate. Hits are so subjective to the people keeping that stat.

I will give one example. The puck is froze along the boards by 2 players. There’s 2-3 more players right around the puck. They cross check each other all the time and I can 100% guarantee they don’t count as hits.

Regardless of how inadequate the stat keeping is, Blues players do fly by’s with their sticks, instead of finishing their checks too many times.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Are you saying if we trade him in season that this would be the line up or after the offseason? I noted that we would need to make moves in the off-season to rectify the center position so I will respond to the in season part.

I don’t mean this to come off snippy, but if twenty or so games in that lineup ruins a prospect, I would question if they would have ever panned out anyway.

Of the players in that lineup that I would be concerned about there is really only one: Bolduc. Everyone else is matured and on their way of the guys that I have much belief will become much.

I don’t love the way we have handled Bolduc this year even with Schenn in the lineup. So at this point I am not even sure things would get worse.

I also would probably try to spread out some of the talent from that top line in you roster to distribute some of the talent.

Wouldn't be 20 games for Bolduc. It'd be the whole season. He's been saddled with Sundqvist, Joseph and Saad all season.

I think the other side of the coin is I don't trust us to find a deal we wont heavily regret in 3 years to stop gap the position for next year either in the UFA market.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

I cannot see us retaining over the length of the contract.

I personally would have a hard time believing someone would give up a young guy like that for a vet on his last few legs without something decent added, but stranger things have happened.

I get a strong 2011 vibe from Army when he last cleaned house. Despite this, I find it hard to believe we would trade Schenn at all. However, without retention, most contenders can’t accommodate Schenn without returning a substantial cap dump. Consequently, involving a third team would reduce our return. If Schenn is being traded for a ‘mammoth’ return, it must include retention. Also, if we are trading Schenn and opening up the whole can of worms @BadgersandBlues is bringing up then I want the return to be something worth it not just futures. A foundational RHD makes the juice worth the squeeze.

@BadgersandBlues just provided us with a detailed analysis of the UFA centers for the upcoming season. Scheen’s contract with a cap hit of 6.5 million dollars isn’t significantly higher than what I would expect any veteran mid-30s center to command. If he was retained at 3.25 million dollars he’s now considered a bargain. While I agree that this deal might seem unrealistic, the primary issue is the optics. So, who would you suggest adding to Schenn to entice New Jersey to sell on Nemec?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I get a strong 2011 vibe from Army when he last cleaned house. Despite this, I find it hard to believe we would trade Schenn at all. However, without retention, most contenders can’t accommodate Schenn without returning a substantial cap dump. Consequently, involving a third team would reduce our return. If Schenn is being traded for a ‘mammoth’ return, it must include retention. Also, if we are trading Schenn and opening up the whole can of worms @BadgersandBlues is bringing up then I want the return to be something worth it not just futures. A foundational RHD makes the juice worth the squeeze.

@BadgersandBlues just provided us with a detailed analysis of the UFA centers for the upcoming season. Scheen’s contract with a cap hit of 6.5 million dollars isn’t significantly higher than what I would expect any veteran mid-30s center to command. If he was retained at 3.25 million dollars he’s now considered a bargain. While I agree that this deal might seem unrealistic, the primary issue is the optics. So, who would you suggest adding to Schenn to entice New Jersey to sell on Nemec?

I can’t see us retaining on Schenn. Too many years. We would take back cap dump if needed.

 

[Celtic Note]

There’s no way I trust that stat being accurate. Hits are so subjective to the people keeping that stat.

I will give one example. The puck is froze along the boards by 2 players. There’s 2-3 more players right around the puck. They cross check each other all the time and I can 100% guarantee they don’t count as hits.

Regardless of how inadequate the stat keeping is, Blues players do fly by’s with their sticks, instead of finishing their checks too many times.

Are all hits equal? Do we just hit to hit, or are we punishing people? Do our D clear the crease? Do we have any physical presence in front of the net? We are far and I mean far from being a physical team.

I agree that we could be more consistent and that the hit stat isn’t perfect, but it is still a relative indicator. If we are top 7 in the per 60 metric, then it’s clear that we are a pretty physical team relative to the league. The league just isn’t as physical as it used to be.

 

[Celtic Note]

Wouldn't be 20 games for Bolduc. It'd be the whole season. He's been saddled with Sundqvist, Joseph and Saad all season.

I think the other side of the coin is I don't trust us to find a deal we wont heavily regret in 3 years to stop gap the position for next year either in the UFA market.

I hear and appreciate the concern. I share the belief and have shared that the strategy for his development has been suboptimal. If they want to prioritize his development, they will have to start doing something about it. I don’t think removing a player changes that and at this point what’s another 20 more games if we don’t prioritize it? We could keep Schenn and still not do the right thing for his development.

I am interested in your thoughts in the second paragraph. Why do you think we will regret it?

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I’d love to get back to being a big, physical team.

The Blues overreacted to Colorado's takeover of the division with their speed and skill and ended up losing our identity in the process. We never have elite talents like that. We're never bad enough to draft them and players like that aren't going to sign in St. Louis.

The team needs to get back to finding players who are difficult to play against. We didn't win the Cup in 2019 because we had a bunch of burners who could dangle and score highlight reel goals. We won the Cup because we were able to physically impose our will on the other team, through smart, physical two-way hockey.

Look at that roster and look at how many guys were an absolute pain in the ass to play against: O'Reilly, Schenn, Steen, Barbashev, Schwartz, the list goes on. Even our more highly skilled offensive players had sandpaper to their game, Perron, Tarasenko (when he wanted to), etc. They were all over you on the ice and you had to pay a price for your goals. Tampa, Vegas, and Florida won Cups for the same reasons.

Now? We have to put Oskar Sundqvist and Radek Faksa in front of the net on the PP because we don't have anyone else tough enough (besides Jake). If you're a big physical team that can get to the front of the net, you're going to have a great day against our defense (look no further than Tkachuk and the Panthers on Thursday).

I can see why the team wants to keep Schenn around, because he's one of the few players that still has that bulldog mentality. When I look at the leadership on this team behind him, I see Thomas, Parayko, Buchnevich, Kyrou, Faulk, etc. Nice guys. Great for morale, I'm sure. But you know what's also great for morale? WInning games. Fighting for each other. We need more players who aren't okay with starting each game in the second period, or getting bullied all over the ice. We need more d**ks and less p**sies!

We have to get harder to play against because there's nobody who looks at the schedule right now and isn't excited to get a break from the grind against the soft and sweet St. Louis Blues. The good news is I think we're starting to see that with some of our younger players. Neighbours and Bolduc look like they have that dog in them. Dvorsky, Stenberg, and other prospects seem to have that same hunger and will be here soon. Soon we'll have a GM in place who was part of a winning team that wasn't the most skilled team, but understood the importance of being hard to play against. Now, we need to find a way to supplement the roster with some vets that have that grit to their game.

That's the end of my rant.

 

[Thallis]

I would inquire about Nemec. Jersey is looking for a center. Maybe there’s a deal around Schenn

I would love Nemec, but there's no way Schenn could be a centerpiece for him. It'd be like if we had given up Thomas for Eric Staal in 2018.

 

[TruBlueFan1970]

I get a strong 2011 vibe from Army when he last cleaned house. Despite this, I find it hard to believe we would trade Schenn at all. However, without retention, most contenders can’t accommodate Schenn without returning a substantial cap dump. Consequently, involving a third team would reduce our return. If Schenn is being traded for a ‘mammoth’ return, it must include retention. Also, if we are trading Schenn and opening up the whole can of worms @BadgersandBlues is bringing up then I want the return to be something worth it not just futures. A foundational RHD makes the juice worth the squeeze.

@BadgersandBlues just provided us with a detailed analysis of the UFA centers for the upcoming season. Scheen’s contract with a cap hit of 6.5 million dollars isn’t significantly higher than what I would expect any veteran mid-30s center to command. If he was retained at 3.25 million dollars he’s now considered a bargain. While I agree that this deal might seem unrealistic, the primary issue is the optics. So, who would you suggest adding to Schenn to entice New Jersey to sell on Nemec?

I can’t see us retaining on Schenn. Too many years. We would take back cap dump if needed.

I agree. I don’t see us retaining, unless it’s something less than the normal 50% or a 3rd team is involved. For example, if we maintained approximately 25%, then his cap hit to the Leafs would be $5.0m. Then, you take back a contract or two.

Something like Schenn (25% along with maybe more if 3rd team involved), & Dean for Minten, 2026 1st, and Max Domi to balance the money.

That’s only an example, but it’s how something would have to be structured for a cap strapped team like the Leafs and the return is palatable for a team in win now mode.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I hear and appreciate the concern. I share the belief and have shared that the strategy for his development has been suboptimal. If they want to prioritize his development, they will have to start doing something about it. I don’t think removing a player changes that and at this point what’s another 20 more games if we don’t prioritize it? We could keep Schenn and still not do the right thing for his development.

I am interested in your thoughts in the second paragraph. Why do you think we will regret it?

We are currently in a pattern of waiting for contracts to run off the books/kids to develop.

I’m not sure a 3C fills the issue we would have going in to next season. I’m worried with the cap increase the UFA market is going to look very silly-esp at center given how many teams have a real need at center in the middle 6.

I also don’t think we are an attractive option for someone to sign with right now that would fit the bill.

I think we’re going to have to offer too much term and too much money to stop gap the hole that we’d open up.

 

[Reality Czech]

The Blues overreacted to Colorado's takeover of the division with their speed and skill and ended up losing our identity in the process. We never have elite talents like that. We're never bad enough to draft them and players like that aren't going to sign in St. Louis.

The team needs to get back to finding players who are difficult to play against. We didn't win the Cup in 2019 because we had a bunch of burners who could dangle and score highlight reel goals. We won the Cup because we were able to physically impose our will on the other team, through smart, physical two-way hockey.

Look at that roster and look at how many guys were an absolute pain in the ass to play against: O'Reilly, Schenn, Steen, Barbashev, Schwartz, the list goes on. Even our more highly skilled offensive players had sandpaper to their game, Perron, Tarasenko (when he wanted to), etc. They were all over you on the ice and you had to pay a price for your goals. Tampa, Vegas, and Florida won Cups for the same reasons.

Now? We have to put Oskar Sundqvist and Radek Faksa in front of the net on the PP because we don't have anyone else tough enough (besides Jake). If you're a big physical team that can get to the front of the net, you're going to have a great day against our defense (look no further than Tkachuk and the Panthers on Thursday).

I can see why the team wants to keep Schenn around, because he's one of the few players that still has that bulldog mentality. When I look at the leadership on this team behind him, I see Thomas, Parayko, Buchnevich, Kyrou, Faulk, etc. Nice guys. Great for morale, I'm sure. But you know what's also great for morale? WInning games. Fighting for each other. We need more players who aren't okay with starting each game in the second period, or getting bullied all over the ice. We need more d**ks and less p**sies!

We have to get harder to play against because there's nobody who looks at the schedule right now and isn't excited to get a break from the grind against the soft and sweet St. Louis Blues. The good news is I think we're starting to see that with some of our younger players. Neighbours and Bolduc look like they have that dog in them. Dvorsky, Stenberg, and other prospects seem to have that same hunger and will be here soon. Soon we'll have a GM in place who was part of a winning team that wasn't the most skilled team, but understood the importance of being hard to play against. Now, we need to find a way to supplement the roster with some vets that have that grit to their game.

That's the end of my rant.

Put it on a t-shirt: more d**ks, less p**sies!

I agree with the sentiment of your post. It's not always easy to acquire those types of players but it should be the goal at least. We shouldn't underestimate having a guy like O'Reilly on the team, both on and off the ice. He seems like the kind of guy who not only leads by example but will push guys off the ice to become better pros.

I'm not sure Schenn has that kind of personality, but I also don't think Thomas, Kyrou or Parayko have it either. You need guys that HATE to lose and can infect teammates with that same drive. Neighbours and Holloway may have that personality type but they aren't really experienced enough to be a team leader yet. If everyone played with the same edge that Walker does, I wonder what our record would be.