2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[StlBigFly]

Can't say I'm eager to trade for him. I'm confident that Army and our front office are more in tune with what is actually happening in Vancouver than the media (and us), so I feel fairly confident that they would be making an informed decision about the personality joining the room. If they are comfortable adding him into the room from that standpoint, then I would trust them.

But he just doesn't remotely fit the rest of our core's timeline. I'm not convinced he turns us into a contender this year and we could still very well miss the playoffs with him on the roster. He turns 32 in March, so I have a really hard time committing $8M a year to his age 32 through 36 seasons if we aren't taking a legit shot at a Cup in his age 31 season. I'm fine going after guys in their mid-late 20s, but I'm not wild about spending high value assets to get a soon-to-be 32 year old given where we are as an organization.

It really is a scenario where there’s a lot of downside as you’re showing.

And on top of that: would Vancouver lose a trade to a team that they’re racing? I’d have to guess no. From their perspective it would feel like throwing in the towel and letting us move on past them.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Sure, but we are incredibly far away from that being a reality. Buch is playing the 2nd most minutes against the 2nd highest quality of competition of all Blues forwards. The production hasn't been good enough, but he's 4th on the team in goals, points, and points per game. He's 3rd in even strength goals, and 5th in even strength goals. He's not remotely close to being a complimentary 3rd line player. I think there is a big difference between being a productive, veteran, complimentary player and being a 3rd liner. I will be extremely surprised if he's playing less than 17 minutes a night over the next several seasons.

Not yet.

 

[BrokenFace]

Considering where the Blues are in their competitive cycle, and the pieces we would be giving up, I'm not interested in Miller or EP. If we get them for a lot less than what I expect then sure, why not, but both have major flaws in my mind. One of them is already 31 and wouldn't get us over the hump to being a real contender this year or next, the other one would cost us Dvo +, and this fued has me hearing more negative things about both than positive. No thanks.

Regarding Buch, we aren't trading him anytime soon. The hope is that he plays well enough that the steeply rising cap makes his contract look fine. It's still very possible $8 million for a guy like Buch looks good in a couple of seasons. He hasn't been as affective this year or last, but he's only 29 still. Would have been nice to deal him for 2 1st rounders last TDL, but who knows what the market for him was.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I would be interested in Miller if we could get him for basically saad, Tex, top 5 protected 1st, and prospect who isn’t one of our top 5 or so prospects. Not sure we could get him for that, but I do that and don’t look back.

 

[Celtic Note]

The one thing to remember about Buch is we yo-yo’ed him as a center. So this year was always going to be at least a little rough for him.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

The one thing to remember about Buch is we yo-yo’ed him as a center. So this year was always going to be at least a little rough for him.

He's on pace for about 56 points, meaning that's okay.

 

[Xerloris]

He's on pace for about 56 points, meaning that's okay.

not for his price tag it isn't.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

not for his price tag it isn't.

Next year it won’t be. This year is the lower salary.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The one thing to remember about Buch is we yo-yo’ed him as a center. So this year was always going to be at least a little rough for him.

Buchnevich is a self-starting professional the same way Steen was. He exactly the type of tone-setter a young player needs to model his approach to the game after. I expect him to look better with a more consistent role as a winger, but he signed that contract on faith that the Blues would get competitive again. He agreed to be part of the leadership for a rebuilding team. He was willing to move to center for the good of the team, to his individual detriment.

I think he’s earned a little grace and a little patience.

 

[Xerloris]

Buchnevich is a self-starting professional the same way Steen was. He exactly the type of tone-setter a young player needs to model his approach to the game after. I expect him to look better with a more consistent role as a winger, but he signed that contract on faith that the Blues would get competitive again. He agreed to be part of the leadership for a rebuilding team. He was willing to move to center for the good of the team, to his individual detriment.

I think he’s earned a little grace and a little patience.

It's been months since he played center, maybe he should start looking like he's putting effort into the game? Ya his season sucked but guess what, he's not playing center anymore so there is no reason for him to still suck so much ass. I get not scoring but the almost complete lack of visible effort is what is upsetting everyone.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Buchnevich is a self-starting professional the same way Steen was. He exactly the type of tone-setter a young player needs to model his approach to the game after. I expect him to look better with a more consistent role as a winger, but he signed that contract on faith that the Blues would get competitive again. He agreed to be part of the leadership for a rebuilding team. He was willing to move to center for the good of the team, to his individual detriment.

I think he’s earned a little grace and a little patience.

For now.

 

[StlBigFly]

Google has its little ai comment on your google search now. I had typed “blues necas rumor” into the search because I was trying to find the time stamp of the rumor last off season from an article.

Anyway

This is what googles ai replied to my search. It seems it is a hockey analyst. FWIW I’d rather wait for Snuggerud. Seems more fun.

“trading for him would complete the St. Louis Blues for 2024-25”

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

Google has its little ai comment on your google search now. I had typed “blues necas rumor” into the search because I was trying to find the time stamp of the rumor last off season from an article.

Anyway

This is what googles ai replied to my search. It seems it is a hockey analyst. FWIW I’d rather wait for Snuggerud. Seems more fun.

“trading for him would complete the St. Louis Blues for 2024-25”

Funny to think but some team will eventually replace their human GM with an A.I. who knows it might actually be an improvement right now for some teams like Buffalo or the Oilers lol.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Funny to think but some team will eventually replace their human GM with an A.I. who knows it might actually be an improvement right now for some teams like Buffalo or the Oilers lol.

Kyle "AI" Dubious

 

[TheOrganist]

Holy shit balls sounds like Colorado is moving Rantanen

 

[HighNote]

Holy shit balls sounds like Colorado is moving Rantanen

Rantanen AND Hall to Carolina. Necas to Colorado.

 

[StlBigFly]

This season I’ve had my little trade spider sense go off twice:

For Eller and Rantanen/Necas.

Both took less than 10 days from the itch to the trade.

Would guess that behind the scenes we made offers on both and maybe even set the market for Eller, just other team met the price, then choices. I wish we could learn about the failed offers.

With Rantanen/Necas resolved…I think the next big name is Marchand and I don’t think they’ll wait to the eleventh hour if he’s moved. I think it’s likely the buyer and the bruins would want to avoid the deadline for a guy like him and he could move before the resumption of play after 4 nations.

People may think it’s a bit much to trade a guy like that when the east is so wide open but we’ve seen the blues let captains walk/trade them near the end to recoup assets for the future. It’s sometimes the prudent thing to do even though it sucks and the bruins have had a whole lot of guys retire like Bergeron, krejci. They had the window to sign Brad. I think it’s a lot like the Rantanen situation. Team pushed to make a decision so they do. I don’t think we’d be involved? Never know…does Saad + B+ prospect + pick work to have Marchand with Thomas on the first line for a few years while we develop internally? Marchand is probably a guy you want young skaters to learn from and his potential hall of fame career is largely on top a foundation of work ethic. If we’re going to try Snuggerud (entry level contract aav) and potentially Dvorsky (same) then we have the space to throw a handful of millions at Brad for a few years. Maybe could even toss in somebody like Toropchenko/Texier and get Frederic too. Really makes sense that Boston would ask for Bolduc.

Saad, Bolduc, 1st for Marchand and Frederic?

 

[Reality Czech]

This season I’ve had my little trade spider sense go off twice:

For Eller and Rantanen/Necas.

Both took less than 10 days from the itch to the trade.

Would guess that behind the scenes we made offers on both and maybe even set the market for Eller, just other team met the price, then choices. I wish we could learn about the failed offers.

With Rantanen/Necas resolved…I think the next big name is Marchand and I don’t think they’ll wait to the eleventh hour if he’s moved. I think it’s likely the buyer and the bruins would want to avoid the deadline for a guy like him and he could move before the resumption of play after 4 nations.

People may think it’s a bit much to trade a guy like that when the east is so wide open but we’ve seen the blues let captains walk/trade them near the end to recoup assets for the future. It’s sometimes the prudent thing to do even though it sucks and the bruins have had a whole lot of guys retire like Bergeron, krejci. They had the window to sign Brad. I think it’s a lot like the Rantanen situation. Team pushed to make a decision so they do. I don’t think we’d be involved? Never know…does Saad + B+ prospect + pick work to have Marchand with Thomas on the first line for a few years while we develop internally? Marchand is probably a guy you want young skaters to learn from and his potential hall of fame career is largely on top a foundation of work ethic. If we’re going to try Snuggerud (entry level contract aav) and potentially Dvorsky (same) then we have the space to throw a handful of millions at Brad for a few years. Maybe could even toss in somebody like Toropchenko/Texier and get Frederic too.

I'm a big Marchand fan but I have to imagine if he's traded he'll only approve a deal to a team contending now. Plus, he would cost more than Saad and a B prospect and a pick unless that pick is a first. If Hall can't even fetch a mid round pick then I assume Saad has negative value.

 

[StlBigFly]

I'm a big Marchand fan but I have to imagine if he's traded he'll only approve a deal to a team contending now. Plus, he would cost more than Saad and a B prospect and a pick unless that pick is a first. If Hall can't even fetch a mid round pick then I assume Saad has negative value.

I think the prices are super low:

Rantanen would have returned way more if he were being bought by groups who were signing him as a part of the process.

Instead, the Hurricanes have rented Rantanen. I’d guess there is a tiny chance they agree to terms here this first 72 hours, but 99% chance no imo. I’m guessing they’d try real fast and you never know right. They’ll try again later and who knows. The player is so close to ufa.

Since he was rented, and he’s truly a top 10 player league wide, that implies to me that rental prices are as good as you’re going to get this deadline.

Buyers are not often teams loaded with valuable futures. The majority of buyers are middle road to barren. Buyers also aren’t usually interested in giving key parts of their team away mid season. So sellers get scraps.

So that’s who we’re competing with to make a deal. All we have to do is be a little better than them. We don’t have to pay Marchands value, we have to pay slightly more than the highest offer. We have more futures and less crappy scraps.

We’re positioned to snipe a discount imo. Usually the prospect exchanged in the top rental deal is pretty iffy. I think for Brad the Bruins will get way better than the usual mid grade prospect, but otherwise he’s going to be a rental from the perspective of his price.

I pretend the movement clauses don’t exist because they just ruin deal speculation hard to speculate on personal desire. Probably depends on future opportunity. Due to the nmc and marchands pedigree I’d guess the teams get to speak with Marchand after meeting the bruins ask and criteria but before Marchand is asked to waive by the bruins. So perhaps, during the deal making stage, the blues say to Marchand - well give you 2 years at 5 mil on our top line and power play - and that’s what he wants, then that’s probably what drives the decision. If Brad is like no, I want 3 years or I won’t waive - that’s how I think it works for the most part. I’d guess some players would prioritize joining the best team in the moment and some other players would prioritize the team that gave them the end of career they want while also being competitive, others perhaps end up with way more take home pay due to change in taxation. Lotsa motivations, hard to ever predict these things. Easier to look at things that have happened and see them.

 

[Reality Czech]

I think the prices are super low:

Rantanen would have returned way more if he were being bought by groups who were signing him as a part of the process.

Instead, the Hurricanes have rented Rantanen. I’d guess there is a tiny chance they agree to terms here this first 72 hours, but 99% chance no imo. I’m guessing they’d try real fast and you never know right.

Since he was rented, and he’s truly a top 10 player league wide, that implies to me that rental prices are as good as you’re going to get this deadline.

Buyers are not often teams loaded with valuable futures. The majority of buyers are middle road to barren. Buyers also aren’t usually interested in giving key parts of their team away mid season. So sellers get scraps.

So that’s who we’re competing with to make a deal. All we have to do is be a little better than them. We have more futures and less crappy scraps.

We’re positioned to snipe a discount imo. Usually the prospect exchanged in the top rental deal is pretty iffy. I think for Brad the Bruins will get way better than the usual mid grade prospect, but otherwise he’s going to be a rental.

I pretend the movement clauses don’t exist because they just ruin deal speculation hard to speculate on personal desire. Probably depends on future opportunity. So perhaps if the blues said well give you 2 years at 5 mil - and that’s what he wants, then that’s probably what drives the decision.

Necas only has 9 fewer points than Rantanen and is 12th in the league in scoring this year, is younger and has an extra year. Getting him + a second and Drury isn't that bad of a return IMO.

It wouldn't surprise me if Rantanen likes it in Carolina and Aho helps persuade him to re-sign but if he walks as UFA then Colorado will win this trade.

Also, Marchand is 37 and would have no interest in coming to the Blues and certainly wouldn't sign an extension here. He wants a couple more shots at winning the Cup.

 

[StlBigFly]

Necas only has 9 fewer points than Rantanen and is 12th in the league in scoring this year, is younger and has an extra year. Getting him + a second and Drury isn't that bad of a return IMO.

It wouldn't surprise me if Rantanen likes it in Carolina and Aho helps persuade him to re-sign but if he walks as UFA then Colorado will win this trade.

Also, Marchand is 37 and would have no interest in coming to the Blues and certainly wouldn't sign an extension here. He wants a couple more shots at winning the Cup.

IMO The value of hockey athletes is extremely comparable to the diamond industry…Pricing is not linear.

As you approach perfection the price has been ramping vertical.

The return for Rantanen is very very low imo relative to what you can get for the quality he represents. He’s a top 5 winger at his prime, healthy. The cap forced the deal; not the players performance. He’s too good.

Necas is fine but the Avs have downgraded and they were paid no premium while giving away the premium asset.

It’s fine, but with a player of this caliber, when you sell them, you need to be in position to demand a premium. The Avs didn’t make that market. They did fine.

I’ll just leave my guess: I truly think Rantanen will play the place that gives him something like 13 mil or more. There’s no reason to leave the situation he was in. Maybe some tax free places can have a lower aav.

 

[Reality Czech]

IMO The value of hockey athletes is extremely comparable to the diamond industry…Pricing is not linear.

As you approach perfection the price has been ramping vertical.

The return for Rantanen is very very low imo relative to what you can get for the quality he represents. He’s a top 5 winger at his prime, healthy. The cap forced the deal; not the players performance. He’s too good.

Necas is fine but the Avs have downgraded and they were paid no premium while giving away the premium asset.

It’s fine, but with a player of this caliber, when you sell them, you need to be in position to demand a premium. The Avs didn’t make that market. They did fine.

I’ll just leave my guess: I truly think Rantanen will play the place that gives him something like 13 mil or more. There’s no reason to leave the situation he was in. Maybe some tax free places can have a lower aav.

What if Colorado wasn't willing to give him $13 million or more? It wouldn't surprise if they didn't want to pay him more than MacKinnon is making. Contract status also matters. You're always going to get less for a guy with an expiring contract unless he agrees to an extension in advance.

I'm not sure Rantanen is as elite as you think, but I guess we'll find out how much MacKinnon meant to his performance. I would be extremely hesitant to give that much money to a winger no matter who it is. He's a very good player no doubt but he's not a top ten player in the league. Top ten forward probably but I'd still rather have a center like Barkov or Eichel.

Either way, I'm happy he's out of the division but he's been replaced by another guy that torches the Blues in Necas.

 

[StlBigFly]

What if Colorado wasn't willing to give him $13 million or more? It wouldn't surprise if they didn't want to pay him more than MacKinnon is making. Contract status also matters. You're always going to get less for a guy with an expiring contract unless he agrees to an extension in advance.

I'm not sure Rantanen is as elite as you think, but I guess we'll find out how much MacKinnon meant to his performance. I would be extremely hesitant to give that much money to a winger no matter who it is. He's a very good player no doubt but he's not a top ten player in the league. Top ten forward probably but I'd still rather have a center like Barkov or Eichel.

Either way, I'm happy he's out of the division but he's been replaced by another guy that torches the Blues in Necas.

Your first q is my presumption of why the thing happened. Avs would have had a hard time with the team cap and so they had to move him. He wasn’t getting his 13-14 mil from them. The system punishes greatness. A possible fix for this is a franchise tag whereby a top talent on a team wouldn’t necessarily take the full severe cap hit.

If the Avs were fortunate to have a few teams willing to pay to negotiate with Rantanen, so the deal was for a signed Rantanen, then the value changes and the Avs get way more. They aren’t going to let teams through the door without making that a premium choice. Nobody would get to talk to pending ufa Rantanen without meeting a high bar with Colorado. It’s up to Colorado to make that market or not. These things occur over many months or even years. It usually isn’t a snap decision (Vancouver is weird).

As far as winger pay: it’s solely based on the last wingers paid. Gary Betman’s system is primarily precedent driven. These groups have seemingly found the ways to agree on the metrics of player production; so if Rantanen and draisaitl are very similar in output and circumstance then they’ll likely be similar in compensation. The teams pretty much have to take it or leave it, so long as the agent believes there is somebody who will take it.

 

[BleedBlue14]

It really is a scenario where there’s a lot of downside as you’re showing.

And on top of that: would Vancouver lose a trade to a team that they’re racing? I’d have to guess no. From their perspective it would feel like throwing in the towel and letting us move on past them.

I’m more concerned about Millers history as well than him being 32. He’s a great hockey player. No question there. But he’s also worn out his welcome everywhere he’s been. Seems like he’s kind of just an asshole. Could be looked at a couple of ways. We may need that, or it could completely fracture our locker room forcing us to turn around and do the same thing with a worse player in Miller in his mid to late 30s.

 

[BleedBlue14]

IMO The value of hockey athletes is extremely comparable to the diamond industry…Pricing is not linear.

As you approach perfection the price has been ramping vertical.

The return for Rantanen is very very low imo relative to what you can get for the quality he represents. He’s a top 5 winger at his prime, healthy. The cap forced the deal; not the players performance. He’s too good.

Necas is fine but the Avs have downgraded and they were paid no premium while giving away the premium asset.

It’s fine, but with a player of this caliber, when you sell them, you need to be in position to demand a premium. The Avs didn’t make that market. They did fine.

I’ll just leave my guess: I truly think Rantanen will play the place that gives him something like 13 mil or more. There’s no reason to leave the situation he was in. Maybe some tax free places can have a lower aav.

I think Necas was a much bigger piece to Colorado than we view him publicly. He’s expressed desire to play center, they desperately need a center. He’s 12th in the league in scoring right now, although it’s bolstered by an absolutely scorching start. He’s young and his cap hit is much more manageable.

I don’t like the approach for Colorado because it seems pretty similar to Middlestat of trading the better player for a guy who’s finally found his footing somewhere and has a real chance to backfire upon extension. But worst case scenario is still a scoring middle 6 player.