2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[Bye Bye Blueston]

If he's a 70 point, strong defensive player, which is worst case scenario, then it won't cripple us. There is no reason to think he won't beat that regularly. He's pacing 68- with injuries and some crazy drama.

How do you propose we get elite talent? We aren't tanking? We are too afraid of a bust to trade for it. Should we keep scraping the bottom of the barrel and praying?

Agreed. It’s like when eichel was available, it’s easy to lay out reasons it’s too risky. But if there isn’t risk guy like that doesn’t become available. If you can get elite talent while giving up collection of good but not elite talent, you need to do it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Agreed. It’s like when eichel was available, it’s easy to lay out reasons it’s too risky. But if there isn’t risk guy like that doesn’t become available. If you can get elite talent while giving up collection of good but not elite talent, you need to do it.

Especially when they are at an age where you are getting prime years. I'd understand if people were hesitant to go for Miller, even if his contract was a bit shorter.

 

[StlBigFly]

The way the C situation, if someone like EP is available, you try and make that move. Anytime an elite player at a premium position or even just any elite player is available, you should be at least making a call. Aside from someone like that, I would be targeting someone like say a Morgan Geekie.

To me, the primary need isn't a #2 C, it's a #3 C. Schenn isn't great, but his numbers have been very good since Monty took over, about what I'd want from a #2 C. Our issue is that Sunny doesn't do anything offensively and should be a #4 C. If we can get someone that upgrades our #3 C, and is enough quality where they can swap with Schenn if need be and not be a roadblock for Dvorsky, that would be the ideal scenario short of just acquiring an elite C. Morgan Frost is another that I think would fit.

I'm not sure which specific players are likely to be available, but if we make a move, that's what I would prefer. I probably lean more towards just not really making a move and rolling with what we have, and using a call up if someone is ready.

The thing that makes me wonder what Army is up to, what are the motivations for potentially moving Saad. Is it to clear a roster spot for a young guy to come up, is it to try and acquire a draft pick since we've moved a lot of them in recent months, or is it to clear salary for another move for the NHL roster? Then again, it could all just be baseless rumors and he isn't going anywhere.

I think I’d guess the Saad part:

Holloway took his icetime and Bolduc was at camp too so he asked his agent to be moved. He may have done it as far back as when Holloway was signed or even before that too. It would make sense that some older players would want to control their future and find a good fit to end the career when they see their own team prioritize younger players. Saad maybe doesn’t want his last remaining effective years to be playing a supportive role on a retooling team and I don’t blame him if that’s the case. It shows his quality that he’s been a good pro about it, at least from my perspective. I hope he gets a cool opportunity if he goes.

 

[Brian39]

I find it hard to believe that shipping off Kyrou in a deal for EP puts us in a better situation. It's trading an elite offensive forward for a slightly better elite offensive forward who is having a down year at a different position. We'd be paying a premium to do so, and be paying futures to do so. Vancouver rightly should expect more on top of Kyrou.

I think Petey is more than a 'slightly better' upgrade to Kyrou, and I say that as one of Kyrou's biggest supporters around here. Petey outproduced Kyrou by 22 points last season and 29 points the season before. He is also a significantly better defensive player and is producing at almost the same pace as Kyrou this season through his down year. Centers as a rule impact the game more than wingers and we are deeper organizationally at wing than at center.

The acquisition cost on top of Kyrou and the difference in contracts could absolutely make a trade 'not worth it' but I think that the upgrade from Kyrou to Petey on the NHL roster short term and long one would be a pretty noticeable one.

Our best prospect is a two way center. He's most likely going to get some time this year at the end of the year like Bolduc did or start on the team next year. Schenn isn't a stud 2c by any means, but Holloway/Schenn/Kyrou has been a really good line. It seems like just shuffling the deck and redrawing the same hand. If we want to be competitive this year and next year, switching out Kyrou for Pettersson likely isn't enough, so why pay the premium to do it?

I'm not trying to suggest that Dvorsky will have near the impact of a Pettersson, but we are setup better to handle the addition of a top 6 C to the group in the near future than a top end RW. We also don't have a ton of cap space next year to add the top 6 RW to the group. Which then puts us in a position where a Neighbors or a Schenn will have to play RW on the 2nd line, not the worst thing in the world, but not necessarily fixing any holes that we have.

Dvorsky is a better prospect than Snuggy, but I'm not sure that he is better positioned to be a capable 2C before Snuggy can be a capable 2RW. I think it is much easier to step into a 2nd line winger role than a 2nd line center role in the NHL. Long term, we are bursting with LWs and there is a decent chance we will want/need to slide one over to RW just due to numbers alone.

Full disclaimer, my philosophy is that you can never have too many centers and that centers are generally more than capable of sliding over to wing. I view having three top 6 centers as a great thing for a team whereas having a surplus of wingers isn't nearly as helpful. When I look 2-3 years into the future of this organization, I think we need another center much more than we need to keep all our wingers.

Again, there is very much a tipping point where the assets in addition to Kyrou make a trade not worth it, but when we're just talking about the Kyrou for Petey portion of a theoretical swap, I think the upgrade would be substantial.

 

[Spektre]

I think Petey is more than a 'slightly better' upgrade to Kyrou, and I say that as one of Kyrou's biggest supporters around here. Petey outproduced Kyrou by 22 points last season and 29 points the season before. He is also a significantly better defensive player and is producing at almost the same pace as Kyrou this season through his down year. Centers as a rule impact the game more than wingers and we are deeper organizationally at wing than at center.

The acquisition cost on top of Kyrou and the difference in contracts could absolutely make a trade 'not worth it' but I think that the upgrade from Kyrou to Petey on the NHL roster short term and long one would be a pretty noticeable one.



Dvorsky is a better prospect than Snuggy, but I'm not sure that he is better positioned to be a capable 2C before Snuggy can be a capable 2RW. I think it is much easier to step into a 2nd line winger role than a 2nd line center role in the NHL. Long term, we are bursting with LWs and there is a decent chance we will want/need to slide one over to RW just due to numbers alone.

Full disclaimer, my philosophy is that you can never have too many centers and that centers are generally more than capable of sliding over to wing. I view having three top 6 centers as a great thing for a team whereas having a surplus of wingers isn't nearly as helpful. When I look 2-3 years into the future of this organization, I think we need another center much more than we need to keep all our wingers.

Again, there is very much a tipping point where the assets in addition to Kyrou make a trade not worth it, but when we're just talking about the Kyrou for Petey portion of a theoretical swap, I think the upgrade would be substantial.

This is why a trade for EP would cost Kyrou + something substantial. Even after adding to Kyrou, I'm not sure the Blues have what Vancouver would want in return. They would be creating a massive hole at C and also want to improve their top 4 D.

Schenn should really be a winger at this point. I highly doubt he would waive for Vancouver, and they may not want him regardless.

The Blues don't have a top 4 D to part with unless it's Leddy. He's not the kind of player they would want in an EP return. He's too old etc..

I could see Vancouver asking for Dvorski and rightly so. He could be the deal breaker from both sides. I like EP a lot, but I think the Blues are better off with Kyrou + Dvorski.

If Army is looking at Miller or EP, my guess is he would try to get Miller, and it's just a complete guess. I don't think Army would be scared off by Miller's age, but at the same time would use it as leverage in trade discussions.

 

[PocketNines]

I foresee the future Faulk + Jiricek + 1st proposals for some major RD acquisition, which will be interesting because some will want to simply keep Jiricek and we might go back and forth on which choice we want. Obviously Faulk's contract protection is a factor

 

[BleedBlue14]

I think Petey is more than a 'slightly better' upgrade to Kyrou, and I say that as one of Kyrou's biggest supporters around here. Petey outproduced Kyrou by 22 points last season and 29 points the season before. He is also a significantly better defensive player and is producing at almost the same pace as Kyrou this season through his down year. Centers as a rule impact the game more than wingers and we are deeper organizationally at wing than at center.

The acquisition cost on top of Kyrou and the difference in contracts could absolutely make a trade 'not worth it' but I think that the upgrade from Kyrou to Petey on the NHL roster short term and long one would be a pretty noticeable one.



Dvorsky is a better prospect than Snuggy, but I'm not sure that he is better positioned to be a capable 2C before Snuggy can be a capable 2RW. I think it is much easier to step into a 2nd line winger role than a 2nd line center role in the NHL. Long term, we are bursting with LWs and there is a decent chance we will want/need to slide one over to RW just due to numbers alone.

Full disclaimer, my philosophy is that you can never have too many centers and that centers are generally more than capable of sliding over to wing. I view having three top 6 centers as a great thing for a team whereas having a surplus of wingers isn't nearly as helpful. When I look 2-3 years into the future of this organization, I think we need another center much more than we need to keep all our wingers.

Again, there is very much a tipping point where the assets in addition to Kyrou make a trade not worth it, but when we're just talking about the Kyrou for Petey portion of a theoretical swap, I think the upgrade would be substantial.

While I can see that you have a really good point, I find it hard to believe that Pettersson is a 100 point player here in St. Louis. We don't have the supporting cast for that currently that he's surrounded by specifically on the power play. We don't have an elite 25 minute a night distributor on the backend.

I guess i'm arguing with myself here that Vancouver probably also doesn't have a Thomas, but it still begins the issue that you cannot play Petterson and Thomas together except in an all out push for offense scenario.

It's a continuous battle trying to decipher whether or not a player does better here or there due to personnel around them, but I can't overlook the role that having an elite puck mover on the backend would aid a guy like Pettersson whereas without one, it's not going to have the same impact on a guy like Kyrou who is more of a rush offensive type of player.

While you are right, slightly better wasn't doing it justice based on past performance between the two. I'm just not sure the difference is all that significant here until we hammer out a guy who can be a high end player on our backend distributing the puck.

Again all a situation in which you can never have the right answer, just food for thought.

 

[Majorityof1]

While I can see that you have a really good point, I find it hard to believe that Pettersson is a 100 point player here in St. Louis. We don't have the supporting cast for that currently that he's surrounded by specifically on the power play. We don't have an elite 25 minute a night distributor on the backend.

I guess i'm arguing with myself here that Vancouver probably also doesn't have a Thomas, but it still begins the issue that you cannot play Petterson and Thomas together except in an all out push for offense scenario.

It's a continuous battle trying to decipher whether or not a player does better here or there due to personnel around them, but I can't overlook the role that having an elite puck mover on the backend would aid a guy like Pettersson whereas without one, it's not going to have the same impact on a guy like Kyrou who is more of a rush offensive type of player.

While you are right, slightly better wasn't doing it justice based on past performance between the two. I'm just not sure the difference is all that significant here until we hammer out a guy who can be a high end player on our backend distributing the puck.

Again all a situation in which you can never have the right answer, just food for thought.

While Hughes is a huge benefit, Pettersson's best season was with suboptimal wings. I think we can surround him with talent. And if we can't then the points moot. It's not like Dvorsky is going to suceed without talent.

 

[BleedBlue14]

While Hughes is a huge benefit, Pettersson's best season was with suboptimal wings. I think we can surround him with talent. And if we can't then the points moot. It's not like Dvorsky is going to suceed without talent.

I would call Kyrou and Holloway talent. The equation is removing one of them and most likely much more. I have no doubt Pettersson would succeed here, it just depends on what you view succeeding as. If it's a 70-80 point C who dips up and down that's a win - and i think that's completely reasonable. But that's also what Kyrou is as a winger. I just don't see without an elite PPQB or a good PPQB and a #1 defenseman how he gets to the 90-100 point pace which is essentially 20 points ticking more than Kyrou. The question adds onto the where exactly does the + end up. Is it a Kyrou + Dvorsky + 1st? If that's where it's going towards and I'd imagine that's the framework of what Vancouver would want - I just don't see how it's worth it. I don't see how Vancouver would make a deal without a center this year or next coming in return either fwiw. In regards to suboptimal wings, I may be misremembering this, but wasn't a good deal of it with Boeser?

 

[Majorityof1]

I would call Kyrou and Holloway talent. The equation is removing one of them and most likely much more. I have no doubt Pettersson would succeed here, it just depends on what you view succeeding as. If it's a 70-80 point C who dips up and down that's a win - and i think that's completely reasonable. But that's also what Kyrou is as a winger. I just don't see without an elite PPQB or a good PPQB and a #1 defenseman how he gets to the 90-100 point pace which is essentially 20 points ticking more than Kyrou. The question adds onto the where exactly does the + end up. Is it a Kyrou + Dvorsky + 1st? If that's where it's going towards and I'd imagine that's the framework of what Vancouver would want - I just don't see how it's worth it. I don't see how Vancouver would make a deal without a center this year or next coming in return either fwiw. In regards to suboptimal wings, I may be misremembering this, but wasn't a good deal of it with Boeser?

Boeser was his 4th most common winger in 22-23 @ 200 minutes 5v5. Kuzmenko was clear #1@ 745 minutes and Mikheyev and Beauvillier were 2+3 @ 300 minutes.

If its Kyrou+ Dvorsky we walk. Everyone has said that who advocates the trade.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I would call Kyrou and Holloway talent. The equation is removing one of them and most likely much more. I have no doubt Pettersson would succeed here, it just depends on what you view succeeding as. If it's a 70-80 point C who dips up and down that's a win - and i think that's completely reasonable. But that's also what Kyrou is as a winger. I just don't see without an elite PPQB or a good PPQB and a #1 defenseman how he gets to the 90-100 point pace which is essentially 20 points ticking more than Kyrou. The question adds onto the where exactly does the + end up. Is it a Kyrou + Dvorsky + 1st? If that's where it's going towards and I'd imagine that's the framework of what Vancouver would want - I just don't see how it's worth it. I don't see how Vancouver would make a deal without a center this year or next coming in return either fwiw. In regards to suboptimal wings, I may be misremembering this, but wasn't a good deal of it with Boeser?

Would be shocking if return is that high.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Would be shocking if return is that high.

Question is where does it wind up? I don't think we'd be better situated to make a deal than like a Buffalo anyways. It just seems hard to judge what they'd need. Kind of stinks for Vancouver, because they're a pretty well built team in terms of having alot of different elements to the team. I think without an insanely high return you just continue to run with both of them and tell them to figure it out.

 

[Brian39]

Question is where does it wind up? I don't think we'd be better situated to make a deal than like a Buffalo anyways. It just seems hard to judge what they'd need. Kind of stinks for Vancouver, because they're a pretty well built team in terms of having alot of different elements to the team. I think without an insanely high return you just continue to run with both of them and tell them to figure it out.

There is every indication that they have been telling them to figure it out for half a decade now. What tangible reason is there to believe that they can or will figure it out? What happens a year from now if they can't figure it out, both of them dig in their heels to "win" by being the guy left standing, and both tell the GM to trade the other guy because they aren't waiving their NMC? Or one/both agrees to waive but only for one specific destination?

Vaccouver shouldn't trade for a complete trash offer, but there are absolutely offers that fall well in between their desired return and the type of offers/returns they could be looking at 6+ months from now. There is very tangible risk to simply keeping them both and continuing to tell them to work it out.

 

[BleedBlue14]

There is every indication that they have been telling them to figure it out for half a decade now. What tangible reason is there to believe that they can or will figure it out? What happens a year from now if they can't figure it out, both of them dig in their heels to "win" by being the guy left standing, and both tell the GM to trade the other guy because they aren't waiving their NMC? Or one/both agrees to waive but only for one specific destination?

Vaccouver shouldn't trade for a complete trash offer, but there are absolutely offers that fall well in between their desired return and the type of offers/returns they could be looking at 6+ months from now. There is very tangible risk to simply keeping them both and continuing to tell them to work it out.

Definitely is. Issue is with the way Vancouver's roster is assembled I don't think that the Blues have what they would need in order to do so. Moreso, I'm not sure a Kyrou based deal makes the most sense for them due to them then needing a center.