2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[Majorityof1]

Kyrou currently has 46 give aways in 43 games
Thomas had 50 giveaways in 31 games

some people formed a perception of Kyrou as he was breaking into the league and while Kyrou grew and became a better player some people did not grow in their perceptions

It's perception bias. It happens a lot on here. There are a lot of mistakes in a hockey game. Its a fast-paced, back and forth environment. When you expect a player to make mistakes and you are looking for them, you are going to find them. That in turn that is going to reinforce the original perception. When you see things that are not expected, you discount those and forget them.

Its why I believe advanced stats are so important to a good discussion. Perception bias is a huge flaw of the eye-test. Stats are more objective measurement. They are not perfect, either. But when you couple both, they can help overcome the weakness of the other.

 

[Xerloris]

Kyrou currently has 46 give aways in 43 games
Thomas had 50 giveaways in 31 games

some people formed a perception of Kyrou as he was breaking into the league and while Kyrou grew and became a better player some people did not grow in their perceptions

I think it has a lot to do with when and how the turn over happens. One that comes to mind is when there were about a minute or so left in the game and we have an empty net, he tried to carry the puck into the Ozone instead of dumping it deep and he lost it stick handling and the other team got an ENG. It's things like that turn over that really burns itself into peoples memories, not his first year or so.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

So lets blame the goalie for nor carrying a shit team into the playoffs?

If only our PK wasn't 65% we could make the playoffs
If only our PP wasn't 12% we could make the playoffs
if only our face off % was better
if only

Reminds me of this.

 

[SirPaste]

I think it has a lot to do with when and how the turn over happens. One that comes to mind is when there were about a minute or so left in the game and we have an empty net, he tried to carry the puck into the Ozone instead of dumping it deep and he lost it stick handling and the other team got an ENG. It's things like that turn over that really burns itself into peoples memories, not his first year or so.

Thomas does the same things though

 

[joe galiba]

I think it has a lot to do with when and how the turn over happens. One that comes to mind is when there were about a minute or so left in the game and we have an empty net, he tried to carry the puck into the Ozone instead of dumping it deep and he lost it stick handling and the other team got an ENG. It's things like that turn over that really burns itself into peoples memories, not his first year or so.

except that is anecdotal, all players make mistakes, when you expect a certain player to make a mistake it becomes ingrained in how a player is perceived regardless of whether it happens to other players at similar rates
how may times did he NOT turn the puck over in that situation?

 

[Xerloris]

except that is anecdotal, all players make mistakes, when you expect a certain player to make a mistake it becomes ingrained in how a player is perceived regardless of whether it happens to other players at similar rates
how may times did he NOT turn the puck over in that situation?

Not that often TBH

 

[sfvega]

except that is anecdotal, all players make mistakes, when you expect a certain player to make a mistake it becomes ingrained in how a player is perceived regardless of whether it happens to other players at similar rates
how may times did he NOT turn the puck over in that situation?

Exactly, Fowler just did this twice and it ultimately led to an ENG. But the perception of him is overwhelming positive.

 

[PocketNines]

It's juuuuust possible having 3 goals 5 assists +5 in his last 8 games as a newly acquired 1000 game veteran defenseman holding down 23 minutes a night on the left side which has been a problem for a long time ... has something to do with it

And not merely bad faith and implicit bias. Dear lord. They give you a -1 for those plays that lead to ENG btw

 

[Robb_K]

The Blues transferred Otto Stenberg to Springfield today. Good news that he'll have the rest of this season to get used to The North American game.

 

[Xerloris]

Exactly, Fowler just did this twice and it ultimately led to an ENG. But the perception of him is overwhelming positive.

Oh so you're telling me that in the final one or two minutes of a game just recently, Fowler tried to stickhandle through the entire other team in the nuetral zone and carry it into the Ozone only to be stripped of the puck at the blue line and give up an empty net goal again and not only did he do this but he did it twice? I call bullshit on your bullshit.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Oh so you're telling me that in the final one or two minutes of a game just recently, Fowler tried to stickhandle through the entire other team in the nuetral zone and carry it into the Ozone only to be stripped of the puck at the blue line and give up an empty net goal again and not only did he do this but he did it twice? I call bullshit on your bullshit.

Didn’t you know that you are disingenuous or whatever that was? Biased?

 

[Xerloris]

Didn’t you know that you are disingenuous or whatever that was? Biased?

I prefer to call it being specific

 

[StlBigFly]

Maybe surprised there isn’t more discussion (not necessarily here just in general) about M Joseph scratches. Seems to come and go.

Kinda expensive and when 3 mil aav players sit it’s usually discussed a bit.

He’s got a year of term after this.

Sure hope they’re working on something with him and plan to use him in the future. That’s a lot of cap for 1.5 years and pretty challenging if he cant crack the bottom 6. I gotta think M Joseph could be a super impactful playoff skater.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Maybe surprised there isn’t more discussion (not necessarily here just in general) about M Joseph scratches. Seems to come and go.

Kinda expensive and when 3 mil aav players sit it’s usually discussed a bit.

He’s got a year of term after this.

Sure hope they’re working on something with him and plan to use him in the future. That’s a lot of cap for 1.5 years and pretty challenging if he cant crack the bottom 6. I gotta think M Joseph could be a super impactful playoff skater.

The issue is with the wingers we have it's hard to justify sitting any of them for M. Joseph outside of Saad, and I think they are trying to see if they can get ANYTHING out of Saad to help his trade value.

 

[sfvega]

Oh so you're telling me that in the final one or two minutes of a game just recently, Fowler tried to stickhandle through the entire other team in the nuetral zone and carry it into the Ozone only to be stripped of the puck at the blue line and give up an empty net goal again and not only did he do this but he did it twice? I call bullshit on your bullshit.

I was saying Fowler made two braindead turnovers against Columbus, the second of which cost us the game almost immediately. You can call bullshit all you want, it happened.

It's juuuuust possible having 3 goals 5 assists +5 in his last 8 games as a newly acquired 1000 game veteran defenseman holding down 23 minutes a night on the left side which has been a problem for a long time ... has something to do with it

And not merely bad faith and implicit bias. Dear lord. They give you a -1 for those plays that lead to ENG btw

CON-TEXT. Is it juuuust possible that Kyrou being our leading scorer while improving his consistency and forechecking would have something to do with an improved perception?

The entire exchange is essentially someone saying "We dislike Kyrou because he makes costly mistakes like this one that led to an ENG" and I made an apples-to-apples comparison. My point wasn't that Fowler sucks and doesn't bring any value. Thank you for the strawman though. This is the first time I've taken you off ignore to see the context of the conversation that I was missing, and it did not disappoint. Dear lord you seem like a miserable guy....

 

[PocketNines]

I was saying Fowler made two braindead turnovers against Columbus, the second of which cost us the game almost immediately. You can call bullshit all you want, it happened.



CON-TEXT. Is it juuuust possible that Kyrou being our leading scorer while improving his consistency and forechecking would have something to do with an improved perception?

The entire exchange is essentially someone saying "We dislike Kyrou because he makes costly mistakes like this one that led to an ENG" and I made an apples-to-apples comparison. My point wasn't that Fowler sucks and doesn't bring any value. Thank you for the strawman though. This is the first time I've taken you off ignore to see the context of the conversation that I was missing, and it did not disappoint. Dear lord you seem like a miserable guy....

Yep I disagree with someone and I get a personal comment. Of course. you are like this. You've shown me who you are before. So I saw your really ridiculous Fowler comment and pointed it out. About Fowler. It's not a "strawman" you don't seem bright enough to know what that is?

 

[sfvega]

Yep I disagree with someone and I get a personal comment. Of course. you are like this. You've shown me who you are before. So I saw your really ridiculous Fowler comment and pointed it out. About Fowler. It's not a "strawman" you don't seem bright enough to know what that is?

How many ppl here have you had problems with? Seems like a recurring issue with you, but you're always the victim. You're above the personal attacks that you say in the same post. Right?

I explained the Fowler comment. That another player made a bonehead play that led to an empty net goal is still viewed favorably, because the good heavily outweighed the bad. It's really simple.

 

[PocketNines]

How many ppl here have you had problems with? Seems like a recurring issue with you, but you're always the victim. You're above the personal attacks that you say in the same post. Right?

I explained the Fowler comment. That another player made a bonehead play that led to an empty net goal is still viewed favorably, because the good heavily outweighed the bad. It's really simple.

I didn't say anything personal to you and I don't humiliate myself by explaining that I have someone on ignore but also that I read their posts, that is ridiculous. Ignore or don't, be a man about it

 

[sfvega]

I didn't say anything personal to you and I don't humiliate myself by explaining that I have someone on ignore but also that I read their posts, that is ridiculous. Ignore or don't, be a man about it

So "you don't seem bright enough to know what that is" isn't personal? See, this is the issue. You never cop to the level of involvement you have.... with more than a few people here. I came here to make a simple point, and you laid it on thick like you always do and it derailed the discussion. But seeing as how this is just a detour from civil discussion for me, back to the regularly scheduled program. Bye.

 

[PocketNines]

So "you don't seem bright enough to know what that is" isn't personal? See, this is the issue. You never cop to the level of involvement you have.... with more than a few people here. I came here to make a simple point, and you laid it on thick like you always do and it derailed the discussion. But seeing as how this is just a detour from civil discussion for me, back to the regularly scheduled program. Bye.

Oh it absolutely is, you don't seem to understand how it works once you entitle yourself to make it personal which you did by saying I seem like a miserable guy, then it goes from there.

Fella, I don't know you don't think about you. All I know is you pop up from time to time, preen about how you have me on ignore while somehow managing to say the first personal thing always. All I know about you is when you do it I am happy to make you regret the experience.

 

[Majorityof1]

Maybe surprised there isn’t more discussion (not necessarily here just in general) about M Joseph scratches. Seems to come and go.

Kinda expensive and when 3 mil aav players sit it’s usually discussed a bit.

He’s got a year of term after this.

Sure hope they’re working on something with him and plan to use him in the future. That’s a lot of cap for 1.5 years and pretty challenging if he cant crack the bottom 6. I gotta think M Joseph could be a super impactful playoff skater.

I mean he has 4 points in 26 games, so not sure how he will be super impactful later. We got paid a 3rd round pick to take on that cap, so that was the plan. He was a gamble, but we got a pick if we lost the gamble. Looks like we lost.

The only forward with a worse P/60 than Joseph is Toropchenko. And while I'd like to see Torop benched for Joseph, the coaches won't do that. Cause Torop has....umm...he is...um, not sure why we play him. But we do. Coaches like our 4th line as is.

Everyone else has been better than Joseph. So Joseph is depth in the press box. until he gets a chance due to injury or just changing things up. If he wants an NHL career after next year, he needs to do something with the chance if he gets it.

 

[Xerloris]

I was saying Fowler made two braindead turnovers against Columbus, the second of which cost us the game almost immediately. You can call bullshit all you want, it happened.

This is purely about Fowler and MY Kyrou comment, nothing else. I consider Kyrou thinking he can do some dirty dangles at full speed in the final minute of a game with an EN to be the pinnacle of stupid ass bullshit compared to Fowler trying to pass to an incompetent team mate to be much less of a problem.

 

[HighNote]

The only forward with a worse P/60 than Joseph is Toropchenko. And while I'd like to see Torop benched for Joseph, the coaches won't do that. Cause Torop has....umm...he is...um, not sure why we play him. But we do. Coaches like our 4th line as is.

It comes down to your last sentence here. Toropchenko might have worse numbers, but he makes the 4th line better than Joseph does. I imagine the Walker-Faksa-Toropchenko line is an absolute pain to play against, which is what you want out of your 4th line. You don't necessarily need them to score, just be responsible defensively and wear down the opposition. Toropchenko does this better than Joseph due to his size/range and his motor.

I'd also argue that Toropchenko is the better/more valuable player at an individual level anyways, all things considered. They're close, though.

 

[MissouriMook]

It comes down to your last sentence here. Toropchenko might have worse numbers, but he makes the 4th line better than Joseph does. I imagine the Walker-Faksa-Toropchenko line is an absolute pain to play against, which is what you want out of your 4th line. You don't necessarily need them to score, just be responsible defensively and wear down the opposition. Toropchenko does this better than Joseph due to his size/range and his motor.

I'd also argue that Toropchenko is the better/more valuable player at an individual level anyways, all things considered. They're close, though.

The 5v5 numbers disagree. All three of those guys are in the low to mid-40s in GF%, xGF%, xSC%, and xHDSC%. They may be a pain to play against based on the eye test, but we are consistently being outscored and outchanced this season when that group is on the ice. Not sure what that solution is, but finding a solution that pushes Torpo and Walker into the 13th/14th forward role would be a positive outcome.

Conversely, looking at these same metrics for Bolduc, even in a role less suited to his strengths, suggests he should be getting more ice time and a more prominent role in the offense. I think he’s ready for it.

 

[kimzey59]

The 5v5 numbers disagree. All three of those guys are in the low to mid-40s in GF%, xGF%, xSC%, and xHDSC%. They may be a pain to play against based on the eye test, but we are consistently being outscored and outchanced this season when that group is on the ice. Not sure what that solution is, but finding a solution that pushes Torpo and Walker into the 13th/14th forward role would be a positive outcome.

Conversely, looking at these same metrics for Bolduc, even in a role less suited to his strengths, suggests he should be getting more ice time and a more prominent role in the offense. I think he’s ready for it.

Maybe it's the 70% defensive zone starts that are the issue?