2024 2025 Around the League Part 2

[Balthazar]

Eh, the only difference I really see is that the goaltending is way better.

They don't play the same style at all. It's Berube hockey now.

 

[John Mandalorian]

That Ottawa - Toronto series thread on the main board is 78 pages in and the series hasnt even started.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Eh, the only difference I really see is that the goaltending is way better.

Still a bunch of dudes who are tough but can't move the puck. Tanev helps in that situation but is paired with the only other good puck mover they have lol.

But still compared to last year, the defense is much improved.

 

[dahrougem2]

The difference between last year's Leafs and this year's Leafs is they cut down on high danger chances allowed in a big way - almost 100 less overall at 5v5 this season.

Still giving up the same level of scoring chances but the high danger chances are down. Call it both the Berube and Tanev effect. Also a big reason why their goaltending looks better.

 

[Pokecheque]

They don't play the same style at all. It's Berube hockey now.

That's fine, I don't refute that, but I'm not convinced at all that's a huge improvement. Their possession numbers have plummeted, and that's saying something because those numbers were on a decline under Keefe beforehand. They were middle of the pack last year, this year, only San Jose, Anaheim, and Chicago were worse.

They scored the most goals of any team last season, and this year they're 12th in goals scored, in part due to Willy Nylander coming back to Earth and Matthews playing hurt all year. But they also took far fewer shots. They were 7h in shots for last year, this year, 18th. They were also 18th in shots against (they were 10th the final season under Keefe).

So I'll give Berube this. In HDCA they were 22nd last year. This year they're 12th. So they're markedly better now at blocking shots and pushing opponents outside, but they're still giving up WAY more shots then they were before. The big, big, big difference is goaltending. In HDSV% They were something like 18th last year. This year? Third. Only the Jets and Bolts have better numbers there. If Berube still had Samsonov back there, the Leafs would not be in the playoffs right now.

I'll give Treliving some credit there, though he also got lucky as all f***. Getting Stolarz was a franchise-saving move and even though both he and Woll got hurt, they only had to rely on their 3rd/4th guys for roughly 8 games.

We will see if this style works better in the playoffs. I want to see if Marner can somehow keep his head screwed on straight and the Leafs offense can actually produce, that more than anything is what kills them after Game 82. But they basically had to goalie their way through the regular season, and it helped immensely that Boston totally shat the bed this season, and Florida took a sizable step back.

Berube, to me, is a pretty mediocre coach who's lucked into some pretty good goaltending situations.

 

[SomaliHackey]

I still think the Leafs biggest issue is that they continue to get big lumbering dman who play playoff style hockey but can't move the puck. Rielly has been the only competent puck mover they've had this era. Now they have Tanev who's great defensively and moves the puck decently, but I don't think it's a coincidence that offense becomes a major issue for the Leafs in the post season when no one can get the pucks to the forwards.

Not that my point totally absolves the big 4 of blame, but I think it's something that gets glossed over constantly.

If you talk to any real leafs fan they'll tell you Rielly sucks and has absolutely zero offensive upside or awareness.

They view him the way Oiler fans view Nurse.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Leafs D for playoffs last year:

Rielly - Lyubushkin
Benoit - McCabe
Edmundson - Liljegren
Giordano/Timmins

Leafs D for playoffs this year:

McCabe - Tanev
Rielly - Carlo
Benoit - Ekman-Larsson
Myers

This is the best Leafs D in over 20 years.

 

[Balthazar]

Leafs D for playoffs last year:

Rielly - Lyubushkin
Benoit - McCabe
Edmundson - Liljegren
Giordano/Timmins

Leafs D for playoffs this year:

McCabe - Tanev
Rielly - Carlo
Benoit - Ekman-Larsson
Myers

This is the best Leafs D in over 20 years.

People sleep on this team.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results otherwise the Avs would have never passed the 2nd round. Teams choke until they don't.

 

[Cypher]

Leafs D for playoffs last year:

Rielly - Lyubushkin
Benoit - McCabe
Edmundson - Liljegren
Giordano/Timmins

Leafs D for playoffs this year:

McCabe - Tanev
Rielly - Carlo
Benoit - Ekman-Larsson
Myers

This is the best Leafs D in over 20 years.

Yeah, it's probably their best team they've had in the past 20 years.

Too bad they'll still lose out to TB/FLA in the 2nd round, as they're still better.

 

[Pokecheque]

Anything that pushes Rielly down a pairing is a great idea. However, the numbers of that Rielly-Carlo pairing are not good last I checked. So long as Tanev stays healthy though, it might not matter. Well, more importantly, the goalies gotta stay healthy.

 

[dahrougem2]

I truly do not see it with Florida this year but hey I've been wrong tons before.

 

[Balthazar]

Anything that pushes Rielly down a pairing is a great idea.

You never liked that guy, did you?

 

[Balthazar]

I truly do not see it with Florida this year but hey I've been wrong tons before.

What's the report on Jones with the Panthers? Last time I checked they got the Chicago version of Jones rather than the Jackets version of Jones.

 

[Pokecheque]

You never liked that guy, did you?

Nope.

Watching him play "defense" just drives me nuts. Not as bad as Chaos Giraffe, but I've just never seen a so-called "top" defenseman have gap control that's, like, ECHL level at best. He's practically gunning for his own blue line the minute the other team has the puck.

I think a fundamental mistake during the Dubas era was just assuming he could be the team's #1 and built the blueline according to that. Instead of adding more puckmovers (well, they tried with Barrie, but that was IIRC the only time they really made any sort of effort, and of course it didn't work at all) they focused more on getting stay-at-home banger types like Lyubushkin (twice!) and Edmundson. If they had added more offensive punch on their defensive corps and lightened the burden on him I think he would have excelled in a supplementary role.

At least now they have Carlo and Tanev, who are mostly stay-at-home guys but they also have some puckmoving skill. Still think that Carlo-Rielly pairing isn't a good idea, and the numbers support that, but it's better than what they've tried previously.

But as I've said before, dude has made millions playing hockey and gets to go home to Tessa Virtue every night, so he's winning at life.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Nope.

Watching him play "defense" just drives me nuts. Not as bad as Chaos Giraffe, but I've just never seen a so-called "top" defenseman have gap control that's, like, ECHL level at best. He's practically gunning for his own blue line the minute the other team has the puck.

I think a fundamental mistake during the Dubas era was just assuming he could be the team's #1 and built the blueline according to that. Instead of adding more puckmovers (well, they tried with Barrie, but that was IIRC the only time they really made any sort of effort, and of course it didn't work at all) they focused more on getting stay-at-home banger types like Lyubushkin (twice!) and Edmundson. If they had added more offensive punch on their defensive corps and lightened the burden on him I think he would have excelled in a supplementary role.

At least now they have Carlo and Tanev, who are mostly stay-at-home guys but they also have some puckmoving skill. Still think that Carlo-Rielly pairing isn't a good idea, and the numbers support that, but it's better than what they've tried previously.

But as I've said before, dude has made millions playing hockey and gets to go home to Tessa Virtue every night, so he's winning at life.

Still wild that Shanahan blocked Dubas in a Nylander for Petro trade IIRC.

That's a trade that probably gets Toronto over the hump. Well maybe not a Cup, but at least a few 2nd and 3rd rounds exits at least.

 

[Pokecheque]

Still wild that Shanahan blocked Dubas in a Nylander for Petro trade IIRC.

That's a trade that probably gets Toronto over the hump. Well maybe not a Cup, but at least a few 2nd and 3rd rounds exits at least.

Oh shit, I didn't know about THAT, that would've been phenomenal if they'd gone through with it.

Shanahan (reportedly) did a few things that hurt the Leafs in the long run. Pushed like hell to get Tavares, which of course wasn't necessary since they had Kadri, which in turn destroyed their salary structure and prompted their three biggest stars to demand more money. He then blocked Dubas from firing Babcock, something he freely admitted was a major f***-up. And then I don't have any sort of proof that Shanahan was pushing more for the team to get tougher and slog it down with talentless grinders or if that was Dubas on his own, but it sure seems like something Shanahan would've pushed for.

In the end though, Dubas just never got the goaltending right, not entirely his fault, but he made some bad, bad calls on his own too. And even though I maintain there was a sizable portion of luck involved, Treliving has done exactly that.

 

[CobraAcesS]

This is kinda funny, because remember EJ saying that, but Liles said last game MacKinnon said it. Maybe they all said it though because it's definitely true.

I still think the Leafs biggest issue is that they continue to get big lumbering dman who play playoff style hockey but can't move the puck. Rielly has been the only competent puck mover they've had this era. Now they have Tanev who's great defensively and moves the puck decently, but I don't think it's a coincidence that offense becomes a major issue for the Leafs in the post season when no one can get the pucks to the forwards.

Not that my point totally absolves the big 4 of blame, but I think it's something that gets glossed over constantly.

Eh, the only difference I really see is that the goaltending is way better.

The difference between last year's Leafs and this year's Leafs is they cut down on high danger chances allowed in a big way - almost 100 less overall at 5v5 this season.

Still giving up the same level of scoring chances but the high danger chances are down. Call it both the Berube and Tanev effect. Also a big reason why their goaltending looks better.

Core 4 are wimps

Goaltending

Defense

Just pick your poison. Personally I think they've failed to ever adequately address the defense.

What's the report on Jones with the Panthers? Last time I checked they got the Chicago version of Jones rather than the Jackets version of Jones.

Fair

That's exactly what happened with Florida, but they went and got Tkachuk.

That Nylander for Parayko move would have been it maybe.

Toronto and Florida both made the same move this year. Go get a good right shot D that isn't top pairing quality, then play them on the top pair. Florida has a reasonable excuse though.

Same shit, different day for Toronto IMO.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Oh shit, I didn't know about THAT, that would've been phenomenal if they'd gone through with it.

Shanahan (reportedly) did a few things that hurt the Leafs in the long run. Pushed like hell to get Tavares, which of course wasn't necessary since they had Kadri, which in turn destroyed their salary structure and prompted their three biggest stars to demand more money. He then blocked Dubas from firing Babcock, something he freely admitted was a major f***-up. And then I don't have any sort of proof that Shanahan was pushing more for the team to get tougher and slog it down with talentless grinders or if that was Dubas on his own, but it sure seems like something Shanahan would've pushed for.

In the end though, Dubas just never got the goaltending right, not entirely his fault, but he made some bad, bad calls on his own too. And even though I maintain there was a sizable portion of luck involved, Treliving has done exactly that.

I remember there was a lot of smoke around that during Pietro’s last season in St Louis. Or maybe the year before? But I remember Dubas said something after leaving Toronto that implied that the defense would’ve been quite different if he had final say on rosters.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I remember there was a lot of smoke around that during Pietro’s last season in St Louis. Or maybe the year before? But I remember Dubas said something after leaving Toronto that implied that the defense would’ve been quite different if he had final say on rosters.

So Shannahan is responsible for Vegas having a Cup, and Toronto not having one.

That Deadthing stink just never comes off.

 

[Balthazar]

The story was Dubas wanted to trade one of Nylander or Marner but Shannahan didn't allow him to do it.

Dubas' evolution as a GM with the Leafs was....impressive:

Phase 1: Completely neglected physicality and defense, added Tavares, screwed his cap structure

Phase 2: Team is too soft and defense is shit, must add tough guys and stay at home D

Phase 3: Core is too soft, must make changes (but got blocked by Shanny and fired)

 

[Pokecheque]

They should've shipped off Marner the minute he demanded $10 million. But even before that they should've kept Kadri, avoided Tavares, and sent Babs packing.

Oh well, as an Avs fan I'm glad they did what they did!

 

[Pokecheque]

The story was Dubas wanted to trade one of Nylander or Marner but Shannahan didn't allow him to do it.

Dubas' evolution as a GM with the Leafs was....impressive:

Phase 1: Completely neglected physicality and defense, added Tavares, screwed his cap structure

Phase 2: Team is too soft and defense is shit, must add tough guys and stay at home D

Phase 3: Core is too soft, must make changes (but got blocked by Shanny and fired)

Shanahan did way more blocking than you're implying here. He didn't wait until "phase 3."

 

[Balthazar]

Shanahan did way more blocking than you're implying here. He didn't wait until "phase 3."

As far as we know, he only got involved when Dubas attempted to trade a core player.

 

[dahrougem2]

Wasn't it heavily implied/rumoured that Dubas wanted to get rid of Nylander?