Prospect Info: [2024] 1st rd selection - #31 OA - RD, Ben Danford - Oshawa Generals, OHL (6′2″/191lb) --Signed to ELC

[ER89]

M

From people on the Oshawa board he has been really good defensively and PK specialist. Not getting much PP time.
Next yr they say that he will be on the top PP unit.
Oshawa hasn't had a great start.
They play the London Knight tonight.
Iam from londo looking forward to arching him against Cowen

Thank you

 

[ULF_55]

M

From people on the Oshawa board he has been really good defensively and PK specialist. Not getting much PP time.
Next yr they say that he will be on the top PP unit.
Oshawa hasn't had a great start.
They play the London Knight tonight.
Iam from londo looking forward to arching him against Cowen

What kind of phone is it?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

 

[All Mod Cons]

Oooh the fancy stats people will not like that one bit.

 

[cyris]

I’ve seen 2 highlights from our prospects in this game and both involve Knights players getting absolutely blown up.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

 

[weems]

Danford scores the game winning goal against London.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Oooh the fancy stats people will not like that one bit.

People who understand stats don't hate hits. They hate when people irrationally inflate the importance and impact of hits relative to more important things just because they personally like seeing things go boom. It was a beautiful hit. Fun to watch. It just unfortunately didn't accomplish much, as the opposing team kept in-zone possession and just missed a pass for a prime chance in alone.

Scoring the GWG? Now there's a positive impact.

 

[ULF_55]

People who understand stats don't hate hits. They hate when people irrationally inflate the importance and impact of hits relative to more important things just because they personally like seeing things go boom. It was a beautiful hit. Fun to watch. It just unfortunately didn't accomplish much, as the opposing team kept in-zone possession and just missed a pass for a prime chance in alone.

Scoring the GWG? Now there's a positive impact.

Do stats look only at the moment?

As you say it didn't impact that moment, but Coach Maurice has come out and said it isn't about the moment. It is about the accumulation of those moments. He was loud and clear about that.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

People who understand stats don't hate hits. They hate when people irrationally inflate the importance and impact of hits relative to more important things just because they personally like seeing things go boom. It was a beautiful hit. Fun to watch. It just unfortunately didn't accomplish much, as the opposing team kept in-zone possession and just missed a pass for a prime chance in alone.

Scoring the GWG? Now there's a positive impact.

We ain't readin allat bro big hit go boom hell yeah brother

 

[Dekes For Days]

Do stats look only at the moment? As you say it didn't impact that moment, but Coach Maurice has come out and said it isn't about the moment. It is about the accumulation of those moments. He was loud and clear about that.

There are stats for all moments. Coaches say lots of stupid things. The quiet part that many don't want to say out loud is that future benefit comes from injuring people, and that unfortunately can be advantageous in a playoff series. We've literally lost series because of it. But not only is that a pretty bad strategy to rely on, it also doesn't really apply in the regular season when you're not playing the same team every game.

 

[Tarmore]

Nice clean hit!

Best part is everyone skated away and got back in the play.

 

[weems]

Not all effective defecemen need to put up huge point totals.
Heck we have two right now in McCabe and Tanev who don't bring all that much offence but positively effect so many areas.
Playing physical, being positionally sound, moving the puck, being good at retrieving dump ins, blocking shots, PK'ing, being asked to play the final minutes defending a 1 goal lead. Imagine getting this type of player at age 21-22 and having them play their entire prime years for your franchise.

Yep would be nice if Danford took another step offensively but even if that doesn't happen, it doesn't mean he still can't be a very important player for us.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Danford had a fight the other game, absolutely rocked them too.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Not all effective defecemen need to put up huge point totals.
Heck we have two right now in McCabe and Tanev who don't bring all that much offence but positively effect so many areas.
Playing physical, being positionally sound, moving the puck, being good at retrieving dump ins, blocking shots, PK'ing, being asked to play the final minutes defending a 1 goal lead. Imagine getting this type of player at age 21-22 and having them play their entire prime years for your franchise.

Yep would be nice if Danford took another step offensively but even if that doesn't happen, it doesn't mean he still can't be a very important player for us.

Junior point totals for defensive D are just a proxy for “can you play 20+ minutes a night and consistently win the puck and make a first pass”. If a defensive D can’t put up more than whatever that threshhold of points in junior someone did the math on a while ago is, there is something either very wrong with their skating, passing, puck handling, or IQ, or they’re on a historically bad team and/or in some sort of extreme non-standard usage by the coach.

It’s the difference between getting Benoit for free at league minimum and paying 1st+ for McCabe and paying him 4.5. Spending a first and waiting 2-4 years for an RHD Benoit kind of sucks, bigger better skating RHD McCabe is a different story.

 

[ULF_55]

There are stats for all moments. Coaches say lots of stupid things. The quiet part that many don't want to say out loud is that future benefit comes from injuring people, and that unfortunately can be advantageous in a playoff series. We've literally lost series because of it. But not only is that a pretty bad strategy to rely on, it also doesn't really apply in the regular season when you're not playing the same team every game.

So is this another switch a team turns on during the playoffs and hope the fuse doesn't trip?

 

[weems]

Junior point totals for defensive D are just a proxy for “can you play 20+ minutes a night and consistently win the puck and make a first pass”. If a defensive D can’t put up more than whatever that threshhold of points in junior someone did the math on a while ago is, there is something either very wrong with their skating, passing, puck handling, or IQ, or they’re on a historically bad team and/or in some sort of extreme non-standard usage by the coach.

It’s the difference between getting Benoit for free at league minimum and paying 1st+ for McCabe and paying him 4.5. Spending a first and waiting 2-4 years for an RHD Benoit kind of sucks, bigger better skating RHD McCabe is a different

I would agree that more often than not if said player doesn't produce much in junior/college, that his ability to play a major role is very limited but there are exceptions. I mean Alex Vlasic right now for the Blackhawks is a guy who's never really done much offensively but has turned into a very solid defender, even had some American posters bring up his name as a wildcard for team USA.

Do you have a link to those NHL equilvalency studies on prospects? would love to read it and see what is the general point threshold.

 

[Its not your fault]

People who understand stats don't hate hits. They hate when people irrationally inflate the importance and impact of hits relative to more important things just because they personally like seeing things go boom. It was a beautiful hit. Fun to watch. It just unfortunately didn't accomplish much, as the opposing team kept in-zone possession and just missed a pass for a prime chance in alone.

Scoring the GWG? Now there's a positive impact.

In season sure. But come playoff it can undoubtedly wear down players.
Check out, calcio storico humans can do amazing things when they train and focus.

 

[Stephen]

People who understand stats don't hate hits. They hate when people irrationally inflate the importance and impact of hits relative to more important things just because they personally like seeing things go boom. It was a beautiful hit. Fun to watch. It just unfortunately didn't accomplish much, as the opposing team kept in-zone possession and just missed a pass for a prime chance in alone.

Scoring the GWG? Now there's a positive impact.

A well built team hits, dekes and scores game winning goals in unison to fuel success. You wouldn’t think it had to be explained. But I guess not.

 

[Macallan18]

just asking, are there are lot of juniors that play D that don't put up many points that go on to be offensive stars in the NHL?
I am serious, I don't know.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

just asking, are there are lot of juniors that play D that don't put up many points that go on to be offensive stars in the NHL?
I am serious, I don't know.

There is actually a study on this but I couldn't find it so I will have to just relay you the information from memory.

The short answer is no. In fact most defensemen in the NHL were studs in juniour putting up lots of points. NHL defensive defensemen aren't usually drafted as such but become one after failing at the NHL level as an offensive defenseman.

I suppose it's possible to go from being a defensive defenseman in juniour to an offensive stud in the NHL but the reverse is, by far, more common.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So is this another switch a team turns on during the playoffs and hope the fuse doesn't trip?

No, it's just acknowledging the actual impact of things. I don't think attempting to injure people is a great strategy at any time, especially for a team that's forced to follow different rules like the Leafs.

In season sure. But come playoff it can undoubtedly wear down players.

This was in-season, and the "wear down" effect of hitting is wildly exaggerated anyway. In fact, the act of hitting is itself quite energy intensive. Throughout the cap era, 63% of cups have been won by a team in the bottom half of playoff hitting. The highest hitting team in a playoffs has never won it, but the lowest hitting team has. The lesser-hitting team went 11-4 in playoff series in last year's playoffs. And contrary to the popular narrative around here, the Leafs have been the 5th highest hitting team in the playoffs throughout the cap era. Hasn't helped us much.

A well built team hits, dekes and scores game winning goals in unison to fuel success. You wouldn’t think it had to be explained. But I guess not.

A well built team takes many different forms; not just the form you personally like. Game winning goals fuel success. Hits and dekes are some of the many different tools that players can utilize to help them achieve things that fuel success (like GWGs), but they are not things that themselves fuel success. You wouldn't think it had to be explained. But I guess not.

 

[Macallan18]

No, it's just acknowledging the actual impact of things. I don't think attempting to injure people is a great strategy at any time, especially for a team that's forced to follow different rules like the Leafs.

This was in-season, and the "wear down" effect of hitting is wildly exaggerated anyway. In fact, the act of hitting is itself quite energy intensive. Throughout the cap era, 63% of cups have been won by a team in the bottom half of playoff hitting. The highest hitting team in a playoffs has never won it, but the lowest hitting team has. The lesser-hitting team went 11-4 in playoff series in last year's playoffs. And contrary to the popular narrative around here, the Leafs have been the 5th highest hitting team in the playoffs throughout the cap era. Hasn't helped us much.

A well built team takes many different forms; not just the form you personally like. Game winning goals fuel success. Hits and dekes are some of the many different tools that players can utilize to help them achieve things that fuel success (like GWGs), but they are not things that themselves fuel success. You wouldn't think it had to be explained. But I guess not.

Joel Quennville said something like he didn't mind if his team was outhit, it just meant they had the puck more!!
Pretty good coach.

 

[broc]

Travis Dermott 0.5

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Travis Dermott 0.5

I mean he really is nothing like Dermott in any way what so ever but sure.