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- Aug 25, 2003
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Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v7 | Sat, Jul 29 | vs LAA | 3:00pm ET/12:00pm PT | Detmers vs Manoah
- Thread starter The Nemesis
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Some of the players look as visibly upset as I seen since before charlie got fired. And for good reason. 4 run lead blown in the 9th.
trellaine201
Registered User
Seath The Scaleless
Paledrake
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
That one hurt. Another terrific pitching performance by Bassitt wasted. Schneider is a dolt. Atkins a bigger one for keeping that slug White on the team.
Said it for awhile but Schneider is a complete f***ing moron with no baseball IQ. Another loss on him. Fire this idiot.
- Dec 12, 2017
- 26,006
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Pretty good and still on pace for 88-92 wins with a lineup that has Kirk, Varsho, Jansen, Belt, playing almost everyday, not too mention , Springer and Flop and the throwing staff he was handed.
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Once again, only a moron DFA's Thornton for White. White was struggling in the MLB and would have made a roster spot for Cabrera short term. Thornton is still playing on an option, could have stayed in the minors and could have been considered in a few weeks when the question is about Ryu and/or Green.
He's arguably worse then Montoyo.
weems
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- Jul 3, 2008
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Toronto seems to have an analytics department with a fleeting understanding of analytics.
While small sample sizes are either laughed at or offered with a caveat here, Toronto actively uses them in decision making.
While small sample sizes are either laughed at or offered with a caveat here, Toronto actively uses them in decision making.
MK78
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2023
- 2,643
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Wow, I woke up this morning and checked the score couldn't believe it. Jano with a huge hit again, and they blow a 4 run lead?!
Did he pull Bassitt too early again (like the day before with Berrios?) I was still watching in the 6th and he walked a guy with nobody out and he pulled him, instead of giving him a chance.
Did he pull Bassitt too early again (like the day before with Berrios?) I was still watching in the 6th and he walked a guy with nobody out and he pulled him, instead of giving him a chance.
HuGort
Registered User
Jays could be setting the stage for free agency this winter. Looks good if they make a big trade offer for Ohtani. Knowing Angels won't trade him.
PanniniClaus
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2006
- 12,598
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Bassitt went into the game knowing he'd have to go at least 100 which he did. Idea was to let Bassitt face the righthanded bat and go to Cabrera for 2 lefties. They did, Cabrera got two pinch hitters and was excellent.
the result in total was the result of an over worked pen. Bassitt battled so hard.
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
Yeah I agree, for once I don’t blame Schneider pulling him at that point. He scuffled but pitched great. At that point he was pretty well done. But, pulling starters when only having pitched 70 is the reason this bullpen is so taxed. Schneider had to go to totally inept White as a result of his stupidity earlier on this road trip.
Schneider's quick hook (or analytics) is coming back to haunt him later in the season. Got to let your starters work 10% more. Starters are the better pitchers, that's why they're starting. Back in the day, you had 1 or 2 guys who could go 2-4 innings, not so today, everyone is 1 or maybe 2 innings. ANd its a bigger bullpen so there's no excuse.
Mitch White is not a MLB quality pitcher, release him.
Mitch White is not a MLB quality pitcher, release him.
At one point they were only going with four starters which meant guys weren’t getting the extra days off. Additionally, the Jays play so many close games that their high-leverage pitchers get used often.
Having White on the roster doesn't help when they rarely use him for obvious reasons.
Most of these problems come back to a big flaw with the management group's inability to develop pitchers.
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Schneider pulls guys at 90 pitches, 3rd time around basically. Bassitt and Manoah(when he was good), get slightly more and reach 100-105. That's the rough pattern.
Analytics shows 3rd time around, starters can often fade, hitters get more comfortable, etc. BUT pitchers can adjust, this was NEVER a problem many years ago. When a starter still has bite on his breaking ball and decent control, you got to let him go more (declining fastball isn't a huge issue if compensated for). Berrios and Gausman especially can go to 110 pitches. These managers are adhering to statistical analysis that is flawed and leading them astray.
The root of the problem for me is the max or near max effort of these pitchers. Control and pitch location is WAY more important than the other factors. Go watch Greg Maddux highlights, he would chew up these overly aggressive hitters today.
Analytics shows 3rd time around, starters can often fade, hitters get more comfortable, etc. BUT pitchers can adjust, this was NEVER a problem many years ago. When a starter still has bite on his breaking ball and decent control, you got to let him go more (declining fastball isn't a huge issue if compensated for). Berrios and Gausman especially can go to 110 pitches. These managers are adhering to statistical analysis that is flawed and leading them astray.
The root of the problem for me is the max or near max effort of these pitchers. Control and pitch location is WAY more important than the other factors. Go watch Greg Maddux highlights, he would chew up these overly aggressive hitters today.
LaP
Registered User
It's definitely hard to understand why White is pitching instead of Francis or Pearson. I can get wanting Pearson to work on things the way he looked lately but Francis should be pitching. White his trash. I went to bed once White stepped in it was late and i was almost sure they would lose.
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LaP
Registered User
Any hof pitchers of the past 30 years would do well today. I mean Pedro Martinez change up was pretty much unhittable by guys like Varsho, Chapman and Belt. They would swing and miss more often than not. Then the high or just outside the plate fast ball would get them. They would not touch Randy Johnson either.
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