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Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v6 | Thu, Jul 6 | *DOUBLEHEADER* | @ CWS | 5:00pm ET/2:00pm PT & TBA after| Berrios vs Lynn & Kikuchi vs TBA

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Bjindaho said:
He can play RF, but he hasn't been good in left. For all the talk about flexibility, we current have a backup catcher and 3 light hitting 2B as our bench.
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Yes but judging by a -1 DRS or -3 OAA (same as Varsho)? Because by UZR standards he's been fine in both corners (SSS).

Not sure I agree about the lack of flexibility though. Varsho/Springer can play CF, Espinal can play 3B/SS, Biggio is a bit limited but can play 1B competently, Whit plays all over the place, and Clement can play 3B/SS. Merrifield has hit well to date, Biggio is doing better, and Espinal hasn't been good (Clement SSS). I feel pretty confident with anyone defending their position(s) right now. Whether they hit or not is a completely different question though.
 
MS said:
I think there are actually some legitimate questions with Kirk and Manoah - whether the slow-working Manoah struggled a bit with his cardio when rushed by the pitch clock, and whether Kirk's declining EVs are tied to his lack of fitness.

But Guerrero just isn't in that category. He's a big dude but he's fit and athletic and winning Gold Gloves in the field and stealing bases and taking extra bases and just not an issue at all. And the VLADDY BAD BECAUSE FAT stuff is just total nonsense. He'll have to watch it as he gets older but it simply isn't an issue right now.
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Kirk is the only one I'm concerned about, weight-wise, but not because of EV issues and not around his immediate issues. More because carrying extra weight is going to put increased strain on his knees/legs as he catches and potentially shorten his career behind the plate.
 
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Eyedea said:
Yes but judging by a -1 DRS or -3 OAA (same as Varsho)? Because by UZR standards he's been fine in both corners (SSS).

Not sure I agree about the lack of flexibility though. Varsho/Springer can play CF, Espinal can play 3B/SS, Biggio is a bit limited but can play 1B competently, Whit plays all over the place, and Clement can play 3B/SS. Merrifield has hit well to date, Biggio is doing better, and Espinal hasn't been good (Clement SSS). I feel pretty confident with anyone defending their position(s) right now. Whether they hit or not is a completely different question though.
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We are essentially wasting the spot Clement is holding (and have all year). The problem is that we don't have outfielders who need defensive subs and we don't seem to value unique skill sets.

We either need to give Clement a chance to see if he is worth keeping, start rotating guys through the spot as a reward for doing well (Davis Schneider anyone?), or find someone who can provide value to the current roster (I have been lobbying for Pache as a better Zimmer).
 
The Nemesis said:
Kirk is the only one I'm concerned about, weight-wise, but not because of EV issues and not around his immediate issues. More because carrying extra weight is going to put increased strain on his knees/legs as he catches and potentially shorten his career behind the plate.
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*Something* is happening with Kirk. His approach is fine, K:BB ratios still great but he's just completely lost all the pop that was in his bat when he broke in and 2023 Kirk is just kind of a slappy singles hitter now.
 
MS said:
*Something* is happening with Kirk. His approach is fine, K:BB ratios still great but he's just completely lost all the pop that was in his bat when he broke in and 2023 Kirk is just kind of a slappy singles hitter now.
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Yeah, something is definitely wrong, but landing on him being too fat feels like fingering the easiest and most obvious potential problem and not looking at anything beyond that. Because it's not like being fat makes you a weak/powerless hitter.

Also in play is the fact that his power has steadily declined across his whole career and yet I don't think he looks noticeably fatter year-over-year.

EDIT:

something I saw in a "what's wrong with Alejandro Kirk?" article that also occurred to me as a possibility (but not knowing enough about judging swing mechanics to draw any conclusions from observations) is that he's hitting off his front foot too much in attempts to get to and make contact with balls, sapping his power because he no longer drives the ball off a more balanced or back-heavy swing.
 
Bjindaho said:
We are essentially wasting the spot Clement is holding (and have all year). The problem is that we don't have outfielders who need defensive subs and we don't seem to value unique skill sets.

We either need to give Clement a chance to see if he is worth keeping, start rotating guys through the spot as a reward for doing well (Davis Schneider anyone?), or find someone who can provide value to the current roster (I have been lobbying for Pache as a better Zimmer).
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What is Clement if not a guy being rewarded for doing well? He has better numbers than Schneider. The way the team is constructed, one of the problems with trying to get playing time for the bottom of the bench is that you end up regularly sitting vastly superior players.

I mean, even with Kirk out you have nine guys (Springer, Bo, Vlad, Varsho, Chapman, Kiermaier, Jansen, Belt, Merrifield) who should be in the lineup every day against righties. Sprinkle in the bench guys to give those guys a day off here and there, but there isn't much spare time to go around.

Against lefties, you take out Belt and one of Varsho/Kiermaier, and plug Espinal into one of those spots. So there's one regular spot available against lefties right now, and none when Kirk comes back.

Whether it's Clement or Schneider or Lukes or someone else, whoever is filling that last roster spot just isn't going to get much of a chance until they earn it bit by bit.
 
The Nemesis said:
Yeah, something is definitely wrong, but landing on him being too fat feels like fingering the easiest and most obvious potential problem and not looking at anything beyond that. Because it's not like being fat makes you a weak/powerless hitter.

Also in play is the fact that his power has steadily declined across his whole career and yet I don't think he looks noticeably fatter year-over-year.

EDIT:

something I saw in a "what's wrong with Alejandro Kirk?" article that also occurred to me as a possibility (but not knowing enough about judging swing mechanics to draw any conclusions from observations) is that he's hitting off his front foot too much in attempts to get to and make contact with balls, sapping his power because he no longer drives the ball off a more balanced or back-heavy swing.
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That hitting of his front foot means he's struggling to hit off speed pitches properly, including hanging ones..... Which means there is a scouting report that has now gone around the league.

He'll get fed a steady diet of curveballs and change ups that he won't hit or make weaker contact whether they are good or bad...... If that starts getting into his head. "Gotta stay back on a curveball". When the pitcher makes a mistake with a fastball down the middle he'll be behind it or hit a single instead of a home run.

It's not a surprise for a young hitter to go through that. But the hitting coaches need to fix that.

Elite hitters are able to recognize a curveball/change up early enough to stay on they back foot to 1. Crush a hanging one 2. Hit a single off a good one in the zone. 3. Lay off the ones in the dirt...... That's why spin rate is so important to pitchers (the sticky foreign substances help that), higher the spin rate the later the break and more "snap". (Manoah 2022 vs 2023)
 
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Good to see them win the series, and put up some runs for a pitcher in support early in game, rather than always trying to claw back or be tied late into games.

I didn't watch because of the early start, but I'll watch Jays in 30 later.

Good to see a homer, something akin to an endangered species lately from this team.

Vladdy's power outage continues, sadly.
 
Bjindaho said:
He can play RF, but he hasn't been good in left. For all the talk about flexibility, we current have a backup catcher and 3 light hitting 2B as our bench.
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I think they had planned for Whit to be a 4th outfielder but he’s been our best bay at 2b by a mile so he’s played there more than the other two. It’s a by default thing. No one anticipated Biggio and Espinal being this bad so far
 
dredeye said:
I think they had planned for Whit to be a 4th outfielder but he’s been our best bay at 2b by a mile so he’s played there more than the other two. It’s a by default thing. No one anticipated Biggio and Espinal being this bad so far
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I think quite a few of us had him as the starting 2B though. He outperformed Espinal/Biggio down the stretch last year and with the new rules his speed was going to be an important element in the lineup.
 
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Eyedea said:
I think quite a few of us had him as the starting 2B though. He outperformed Espinal/Biggio down the stretch last year and with the new rules his speed was going to be an important element in the lineup.
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I kind of had him pegged as what they hoped Biggio would be in a super utility guy but he certainly ran away with second. The two of them being bad this year really hurt our perceived depth
 
Suntouchable13 said:
Looking at the Oakland lineup and the players stats, what the f***? What kind of team is this? Lol. Maybe the worst lineup I have ever seen.
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Yeah, they suck. Need a sweep here.

Some interesting names to watch, though. Looking forward to seeing ex-Jay farmhand Ryan Noda who was a throw-in in the Ross Stripling deal and has had a shocking breakout and is leading the AL in walks with a 133 OPS+. And Esteury Ruiz who is on pace for, like, 90 SB.
 
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