WC: 2023 Switzerland Roster Talk

[Hinterland]

Hard to say right now, we are all frustated.

I feel like we miss Josi so much on those last 3 quarters.

Right now? I'm frustrated ever since they hired this grade a moron. Was a great player but he's an idiot coach and as such proved to have a questionable (at the very least) personality as well. Shouldn't have been hired in the first place. I was always against this idea. He was brutal in Lugano as well.

 

[SwissFan12]

Right now? I'm frustrated ever since they hired this grade a moron. Was a great player but he's an idiot coach and as such proved to have a questionable (at the very least) personality as well. Shouldn't have been hired in the first place. I was always against this idea. He was brutal in Lugano as well.

I believe we all agree on the fact that all that staff needs to go.

But I'm far from confident about this. I really feel like he will stay and that's a part of this bad mentality we have, always counting on the same thing again and again even though it doesn't work.

 

[Speyer]

Right now? I'm frustrated ever since they hired this grade a moron. Was a great player but he's an idiot coach and as such proved to have a questionable (at the very least) personality as well. Shouldn't have been hired in the first place. I was always against this idea. He was brutal in Lugano as well.

It was basically an overreaction after the failed Hanlon expriment. Everyone saw that the market for international coaches was dried up and the fans demanded a swiss guy. And Fischer was Johnny on the spot. Unfortunately the silver medal kept in office until now while Simpson never even got remotely the same credit for the exact same feat. The media seems to love him as well for some reason.

 

[Goose The Cat]

Right now? I'm frustrated ever since they hired this grade a moron. Was a great player but he's an idiot coach and as such proved to have a questionable (at the very least) personality as well. Shouldn't have been hired in the first place. I was always against this idea. He was brutal in Lugano as well.

I gotta admit, I'm not Swiss and I don't know anything about him, but I thought he was alright. Maybe because you were winning all the games in the group this year. And last year too. lol

 

[Speyer]

I gotta admit, I'm not Swiss and I don't know anything about him, but I thought he was alright. Maybe because you were winning all the games in the group this year. And last year too. lol

He made the finals of the WC once in eight years in his time as head coach. Every other year the team failed in the quarters or even earlier. Despite often having one of the best rosters (on paper) at his disposal. In the Olympics he also failed once in the quarters and once even in the round of the last sixteen during the same timespan. Oh yes I almost forgot he also once highjacked the head coach position at the WJC, because he was bored, I think. We ended up losing every game in the round robin of that tournament. Thank god for Covid or we probably would have been relegated that year too.

Do you think this can be considered a good record overall that merits further employment?

 

[SwissFan12]

I gotta admit, I'm not Swiss and I don't know anything about him, but I thought he was alright. Maybe because you were winning all the games in the group this year. And last year too. lol

I mean, it shows even more that there is a big problem on this team.

Maybe it's mentality but Fischer shows enough now, he is not the guy that will help us with this problem.

 

[Speyer]

I mean, it shows even more that there is a big problem on this team.

Maybe it's mentality but Fischer shows enough now, he is not the guy that will help us with this problem.

Fun fact. Before the WJC U18 coach Marcel Jenni had been asked in an interview if the federation has hired some sort of mental coach or psychologist to help the (U18) players like pretty much every other federation does at this point. He answered that this wasn't needed and that he does this himself because he doesn't like "any interference from outside". Lets face it. Both the federation and the NL clubs are run like beer league teams. Its basically amateur hour. In regard to the league all you need to do is to do is looking up interviews of former import players (Nathan Gerbe for example) on youtube. They usually say they couldn't believe how badly the teams were run. There is something rotten in swiss hockey and it goes down right down to the core of our junior system as well. No wonder we are not getting ahead. The progress of some of the NHL players have masked this to some degree in the eye of the general public. But this development really needs to stop now if we don't want to seriously regress as a hockey nation. Getting rid of Fischer, Weibel and their cronies would be a good start.

 

[SwissFan12]

Fun fact. Before the WJC U18 Marcel Jenni had been asked in an interview if the federation has hired some sort of mental coach or psychologist to help the players like pretty much every other federation does at this point. He answered that this wasn't needed and that he does this himself because he doesn't like "any interference from outside". Lets face it. Both the federation and the NL are run like beer league teams. Its basically amateur hour. In regard to the league all you need to do is to do is looking up interviews of former players (Nathan Gerbe for example) on youtube. They said the couldn't believe how badly the teams were run. There is something rotten in swiss hockey and it goes down right down to the core of our junior system as well. No wonder we are not getting ahead. The progress of some of the NHL players have masked this to some degree in the eye of the general public. But this development really needs to stop now if we don't want to seriously regress as a hockey nation. Getting rid of Fischer, Weibel and their cronies would be a good start.

At this point, this is just ridiculous.

 

[Goose The Cat]

He made the finals of the WC once in eight years in his time as head coach. Every other year the team failed in the quarters or even earlier. Despite often having one of the best rosters (on paper) at his disposal. In the Olympics he also failed once in the quarters and once even in the round of the last sixteen during the same timespan. Oh yes I almost forgot he also once highjacked the head coach position at the WJC, because he was bored, I think. We ended up losing every game in the round robin of that tournament. Thank god for Covid or we probably would have been relegated that year.

Do you think this can be considered a good record overall that merits further employment?

Okay, after reading this, I think he should be fired. Still don't understand why he chose Mayer over Genoni. And where was Malgin???

 

[SwissFan12]

Okay, after reading this, I think he should be fired. Still don't understand why he chose Mayer over Genoni. And where was Malgin???

About Malgin, it is a big question.

I really hope he truely was sick, cause if he wasn't, it tells a lot about Fischer.

 

[Speyer]

About Malgin, it is a big question.

I really hope he truely was sick, cause if he wasn't, it tells a lot about Fischer.

Most likely he was sick. Fischer probably would have proudly taken credit for it, if he had benched him for any other reason than that.

 

[Hinterland]

He made the finals of the WC once in eight years in his time as head coach. Every other year the team failed in the quarters or even earlier. Despite often having one of the best rosters (on paper) at his disposal. In the Olympics he also failed once in the quarters and once even in the round of the last sixteen during the same timespan. Oh yes I almost forgot he also once highjacked the head coach position at the WJC, because he was bored, I think. We ended up losing every game in the round robin of that tournament. Thank god for Covid or we probably would have been relegated that year too.

Do you think this can be considered a good record overall that merits further employment?

Not just once. Him and his clowns consistently installed themselves in the junior teams using dummy coaches. And the coaches who were too good for the SIHF or not willing to cooperate got mobbed out of the federation (Paterlini).

Also, him mobbing/bashing players via media (eg Malgin) is just not acceptable.

The SIHF can only be solved with a proper house cleaning. This doesn't just include coaching.

Most likely he was sick. Fischer probably would have proudly taken credit for it, if he had benched him for any other reason than that.

Wouldn't have been the first time. Surprised Malgin is still willing to play for this clown after getting murdered via media. I'd have rejected all invites if I was him.

 

[jonas2244]

I mean I agree with all of you. It's now this loss too much. Even if Fischer would have made everything perfect and the right way, the team didn't perform at the team it would have needed to perform. Goalie-decision was wrong but this is an easy saying after the game. Using Fora/Glauser/Geisser over Berni was wrong, too.

But in the end the players didn't perform. They couldn't play the same way as last weekend. It was a huge differencee in every aspect of the game.

But yeah, finding the right guy who can change that, is not an easy job. And yeah, Weibel needs also to go.

 

[Speyer]

Not just once. Him and his clowns consistently installed themselves in the junior teams using dummy coaches. And the coaches who were too good for the SIHF or not willing to cooperate got mobbed out of the federation (Paterlini).

Yeah I specifically meant the one time when he was actually behind the bench in 2021. He was officially listed as assistant coach that year but overtook control of coaching duties whenever he felt like it. At least in some of the earlier games.

Also, him mobbing/bashing players via media (eg Malgin) is just not acceptable.

Yes thats true. At least people were starting to call him and Weibel out on their bullshit during the latest "Bichsel saga". Before that, a lot of journalists and fans actually believed he had a point.

The SIHF can only be solved with a proper house cleaning. This doesn't just include coaching.
.

Certainly true. But I honestly expected more outrage from the media about the quarter loss. Maybe they want to spread their stories out a bit over the next few days but right now it seems like they are not even that critical. Shortly after the game I thought that at the very least Weibel and Fischer would certainly be goners. Now I am not so sure anymore that either one of them (or anyone else for that matter) will get fired over this.

 

[jonas2244]

There is some criticism around. But not a harsh Fischer bashing.

Tages-Anzeiger writes:

Das Schweizer Debakel begann schon vor dem Spiel

Die gesamte WM-Vorbereitung war auf die zweite Turnierwoche ausgerichtet. Doch nun scheitert die Schweiz zum vierten Mal in Folge im Viertelfinal und gibt Rätsel auf.

www.tagesanzeiger.ch

Fischer bekleidet das Amt des Nationaltrainers seit nunmehr acht Jahren. Er hat alte Denkmuster aufgebrochen, formuliert ambitionierte Ziele, spricht vom WM-Titel. Der «NZZ» sagte er neulich: «Irgendwann müssen wir den Durchbruch schaffen. Sonst muss es ein anderer Coach versuchen.» Im Verband ist Fischer, dessen Vertrag bis 2024 läuft, unbestritten. Keiner geniesst auch nur ansatzweise das Ansehen des Zugers, der das Team 2018 zu WM-Silber führte, und die Spieler für sich gewinnen kann.

Während andere Nationen Absage um Absage hinnehmen mussten, sich die Stars nach einer kräftezehrenden Saison lieber auf den alljährlich wiederkehrenden Wettbewerb verzichten, stiessen mit Kevin Fiala, Nico Hischier und Jonas Siegenthaler gleich drei NHL-Verstärkungen zum Team. Dennoch ist Fischers Bilanz mit nur einer Halbfinal-Qualifikation bei neun Turnieren ungenügend. Wer hohe Ziele formuliert und von Medaillen spricht, sollte auch mal liefern.

Says basically: Federation will stand behind him, he's undisputed. And he's able to make the players join the team, which is his strength.
But if you talk from medals and from finals year after year you should deliver once.

I'm pretty sure, the only way to get a new coach would be either Fischer quitting himself or the players pushing a new coach. Both won't happen in my opinion.

 

[SwissFan12]

There is some criticism around. But not a harsh Fischer bashing.

Tages-Anzeiger writes:

Das Schweizer Debakel begann schon vor dem Spiel

Die gesamte WM-Vorbereitung war auf die zweite Turnierwoche ausgerichtet. Doch nun scheitert die Schweiz zum vierten Mal in Folge im Viertelfinal und gibt Rätsel auf.

www.tagesanzeiger.ch

Says basically: Federation will stand behind him, he's undisputed. And he's able to make the players join the team, which is his strength.
But if you talk from medals and from finals year after year you should deliver once.

I'm pretty sure, the only way to get a new coach would be either Fischer quitting himself or the players pushing a new coach. Both won't happen in my opinion.

Well, in the romand side it's a bit more bitter.

Sorry but I'm not sure that we absolutely need him to convice player to come here. When it's the only good point that they are able to give, it says a lot.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that our NHL guys will be proud to come to help the national team with or without him.

He's here since 2015. Did the team progress ? Yes, in 2018 and in their ability to win group stage game that they should win. But now, it seems to be completely blocked and nothing is moving anymore. If the fédération still can't see it and admit it, well, it's time for them to put a big red plastic nose.

You simply cannot say, year after year, that you need to understand why it didn't work (I'm quoting Lars Weibel).

And something that hits me yesterday was the lack of emotion of the group as a whole.

I'm so disappointed.

 

[Speyer]

Well, in the romand side it's a bit more bitter.

Sorry but I'm not sure that we absolutely need him to convice player to come here. When it's the only good point that they are able to give, it says a lot.

This is a huge myth though. Josi, Streit, Gerber, Brunner etc. also regularly reported for Krueger and even Hanlon. One of the main reasons there were more declining NHL players back then was because the Olympics were still a best on best tournament. And almost no NHL player wanted to play the WC too after playing the Olympics and a long NHL season. This wouldn't be any other way today if the tournament was still best on best. Another reason was that there was more overlap between the NHL playoffs and the WC. The World Championship used to start at the end of April and therefore it was much harder for any NHL player to join mid tourney when his team made the playoffs. And then there were just way fewer guys playing in NA in general. Krueger and Hanlon just had a handful of NHL players at their disposal maybe not even that many. Fischer on the other hand can draw from a pool of around 15 mercenaries. So when Josi declined for having a kid and Fialas contract was up, we still had a bunch of star players available. So if lets say Streit did not show up for a particular tournament we felt it much more back then than we do now with Josi for example.

And comparing us to other nations is not fair either. Finland and Sweden are pretty much saturated regarding WC Gold for the moment anyways. Most of their stars already have a gold medal so its much more understandable that they don't want to report every year. Then there are Canada and the US who don't care about the WC at all. I think the only actual comparisons to us in this regard are the Czechs and Germans who usually have a pretty good turnout too, if their players are available.

I find it weird that everyone just buys into the narrative that our mercenaries would only play under Fischer and no other coach, when it were mostly unrelated developments that are responsible for the good turnout in the last few years. But Fischer himself and his buddy Weibel are pushing this narrative hard and it seems to be working despite it being false. And what about the tournaments Malgin, Fiala and Bichsel missed because Fischer had to punish them for their temporal "lack of commitment"? Nobody is talking about that in this context.

And in end, whats so great about having one of the best rosters on paper if you still always fail in the first knockout game. Just look at what Finland achieved in the last few years with next to no NHL players on their teams.

But what I do wonder is how the hell the players are still putting their trust into this coaching staff after losing so many quarterfinals in his tenure. He must be a pretty nice and popular guy, I guess.

 

[jonas2244]

In fact, I'm pretty sure that our NHL guys will be proud to come to help the national team with or without him.

I agree, a coach who would fail to make those players report would probably be a fluke anyway.

The main question is, how can you play so well in the group stage and dominate and make no mistakes and then when you have too you just forget how to play. And it's not because of the strength of Germany. It's just, players who made no mistakes in the first few games, now start to make those.

But to be honest, it looks like the players like him.

 

[SwissFan12]

I agree, a coach who would fail to make those players report would probably be a fluke anyway.

The main question is, how can you play so well in the group stage and dominate and make no mistakes and then when you have too you just forget how to play. And it's not because of the strength of Germany. It's just, players who made no mistakes in the first few games, now start to make those.

But to be honest, it looks like the players like him.

I mean, he made some training facultative for players. I'm sorry but you simply cannot do this when you have big ambition. And the point that player was confident enough and the team worked well is not a good point at all.

Big ambition must comes with big work, it seems so logical.

People here apparently were okay to rest player against Latvia. Hockey is a momentum game. And, in a lot of way, the game against Germany was similar to the game against Latvia. They never took any step on their opponent in both game. I really think that taking the risk of loosing our momentum wasn't a good choice.

I don't know what happened with malgin yesterday but to bench him in the game against czechs was brutal imo. Malgin is not a kid, he is a professional hockey player who is capable to understand when he made a mistakes. It really looks like Fischer simply doesn't like him on a personal way, which should have nothing to do with sport. Pointing at someone is never good in a collective game.

Taking Berni out was also a very poor choice imo.

And unfortunately, the first goal showed that choosing Mayer over Genoni wasn't a good choice either.

You still can say that yesterday game big moment was the 5mn penalty and we weren't able to score, which is not on Fischer.
But, yes, in a way it is, because he made training facultative. And if you don't train powerplay, don't expect it to luckily work against a very solid team like Germany.

To me it's just way to much weird choices. A lot is on Fischer. I have nothing against him, he seems to be a good guy, but as I already said, when things are stuck you have to ask the good questions.

 

[jonas2244]

Regarding resting players, Nino was sick, Malgin was yesterday sick, maybe he wasn't feeling great back then either, Nico hat problems with the Jet-Lag and couldn't sleep, that's why he was not playing. There were reasons behind that.

On the other side, last year they played the full roster in the last game. Both ways didn't work out.

 

[Speyer]

Regarding resting players, Nino was sick, Malgin was yesterday sick, maybe he wasn't feeling great back then either, Nico hat problems with the Jet-Lag and couldn't sleep, that's why he was not playing. There were reasons behind that.

On the other side, last year they played the full roster in the last game. Both ways didn't work out.

In Nicos case it probably would have been smarter to sit him vs Canada or the Czechs and let him play against Latvia so he would be in game mode in the quarters. Because he really wasn't on top of his game yesterday even though its hard to asses how much him not playing vs Latvia might have contributed to his.

At the end of the day there is not much point in microanalyzing every decision that could have let to the loss against the germans. But if you look at the big picture the situation becomes clear. Fischer hasn't managed to get the job done in any tournament for four years running. We basically haven't seen any upwards trajectory with this team since the quarter final loss against Canada in 2019. Every year Fischer promised that he and the team would learn from their mistakes and not repeat them in the next tournament. He never made good on that promise. I just don't see him as a guy capable of getting us over the hump in future tournaments.

 

[torero]

Bye Patrick.

I agree with that.

Patrick Fischer has been very good ... but he had his time.

When we were weak (sorry i'll put it frankly and bluntly) ... the trap was our solution ... Ralf Kureger was the man.

Then we made our comming out ... better ... no push over anymore ... from time to time a 7-1 loss to Sweden .... but as many or even more victories against Canada or another big player. We needed an aggressive style of hockey ... Patrick Fischer

Now we have stars , we have good players ... the system is important ... and so are the stars ... and we have to endorse our beingness as serious nation with confidence. ... maybe someone else should take over ?!

And no particular critic to Patrick Fischer ... but his time has passed ... his style doesn't fit the new Swiss team.

Who ? i frankly have no idea ... but maybe keep Fischer and twin him with new ideas .... someone who is used to coach a team of Canadians (who do not train together before WC's but where they welcome the players from the NA leagues ... and club them together in no time)

That is my 10 centimes/Rappen/centabos 30 hours post traumatic WC elimination thought.

 

[jonas2244]

Nati-Direktor spricht Klartext - Weibel: «Fischer steht im Moment nicht zur Diskussion»

Die grosse WM-Analyse steht für Nati-Direktor Lars Weibel noch bevor. Personelle Konsequenzen sind nicht zu erwarten.

www.srf.ch

No discussion on coaching.

 

[Speyer]

Nati-Direktor spricht Klartext - Weibel: «Fischer steht im Moment nicht zur Diskussion»

Die grosse WM-Analyse steht für Nati-Direktor Lars Weibel noch bevor. Personelle Konsequenzen sind nicht zu erwarten.

www.srf.ch

No discussion on coaching.

Great. Well I didn't expect anything else from Weibel. But its still pretty shameless to claim that Fischer is doing "a very good job" with the national team. I must say I am extremely disappointed in swiss media right. There should be a commentary in every major newspaper right now demanding Fischers release. I don't think I have read even one. Makes it even easier for Weibel to just brush aside this most recent failure.

 

[jonas2244]

Yeah, as I said, the only possibilities to get a new coach are either Fischer resigning himself or the players demanding a new one.

But I just hope they extend the contract before next WC.