Buffalo Bills 2023 Summer - Post-Draft and Pre-Camp Talk

[OkimLom]

Or they could support adding….you know…offense.

McDermott has plenty of big ticket and high asset investments on D. Figure it out. That’s what you’re supposed to be good at. God know it isn’t having balls once the playoffs start.

Meanwhile our OC is trash and Josh needs all the help he can get. Keep investing everything in D so Mahomes and Burrow can hang 38 on you when the games matter anyway…and ask Allen to bail you out of everything with one aging receiver worth a damn. Worked out great so far!

Just got to say I love the juxtaposition you have for defense in Buffalo Sports.

 

[BuiltTagonTough]

Kiper's latest Mock has us taking an OLB

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McDonald is 8th on Brugler's ranking of edge players.

Kiper is Eklund with a network contract.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Either use it to draft offense or trade it for offense. Bottom line.

 

[Fezzy126]

Kiper is Eklund with a network contract.

Kiper is dopey and far from the greatest, but calling him Eklund is going way too far. He has sources and a ton of experience doing this, even though he started as an amateur. Unlike Eklund, his name carries weight in the industry. With studies on mock draft accuracy, he generally grades out pretty average among most mock draft pundits.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I like Brugler and Zierlein, but this post is my annual shout out to the late Joel Buchsbaum. Joel was the greatest draftnik of all time. No one even comes close today. When Bill Belichick shares his draft board with you the day prior to the draft to get feedback, you're the GOAT.

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Who was on the original NFL Draft coverage on espn in the early years ? Boomer, Jackson, and Zimmerman ?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Kiper is one of those guys that everybody loves to hate - so his reputation is affected as a result

He has some wild takes here & there - so does everyone. He gets things wrong sometimes - again so does everyone.

He also talks sense at times & gets things right. But he rarely gets the credit for that.

I like the double act he has with McShay.

Kiper is Eklund with a network contract.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Kiper is dopey and far from the greatest, but calling him Eklund is going way too far. He has sources and a ton of experience doing this, even though he started as an amateur. Unlike Eklund, his name carries weight in the industry. With studies on mock draft accuracy, he generally grades out pretty average among most mock draft pundits.

any main stream press here and the hockey side is treated with an outrageous inferiority complex, smells like teen spirit.

 

[Husko]

Kiper's latest Mock has us taking an OLB

View attachment 697594


McDonald is 8th on Brugler's ranking of edge players.

He'd be a DE in our scheme. FWIW the Bills did have a top 30 visit with him. I'd absolutely hate it.


Brugler's final mock has us taking Bergeron in the first. Some will hate the value after reliably landing him in the second or later in mock drafts, but I'd be fine with it.

 

[Husko]

Lance's final mock has us going Campbell:

 

[ValJamesDuex]

 

[Jim Bob]

As a 'positionless' player - i really don't see how he couldn't be a scheme fit for anyone.

For the Bills I'd see him used at:

- Pass rusher, most likely in the 'Alexander' role

- MLB, traditionally occupied by Edmunds. He's certainly not plug/play but brings many skills to the table where he'd be effective

- OLB, typically occupied by Milano - who could possibly move around himself

- 'Big nickel' or slot. For this you would likely see safeties/Johnson moved around. We've talked about adding this type of player in JOK Or more recently speculated that a 3rd safety could be added to the field with Poyer/Hyde/Rapp

It would certainly be a shift in terms of we've never seen a player like this play for McDermott. But he's absolutely a scheme fit if you think outside the box.

And for those of you who want less focus on D in favour of more focus on O... Then you should probably be supportive of adding Simpson. Because having a guy like him capable of moving around, should lead to having less big money defensive players for specific roles.

If you have to think outside of the box and he's a player that we've never seen used in a McDermott defense, that is the definition of "not a scheme fit" for me.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

If you have to think outside of the box and he's a player that we've never seen used in a McDermott defense, that is the definition of "not a scheme fit" for me.

The definition of 'not a scheme fit' is someone who couldn't be used effectively within a particular scheme.

That's absolutely NOT the case for Simpson.

@Husko - I'm probably the biggest advocate for drafting RT @ 27... But I'd hate picking Bergeron. There are so many guys ahead of him & some people don't even project him to play tackle in the NFL.

I wouldn't hate him @ 59 - but there should still be better guys available. I'd prefer taking a swing on Freeland/Duncan/Morris.

any main stream press here and the hockey side is treated with an outrageous inferiority complex, smells like teen spirit.

I've thought for a while that Kiper is the NFLs answer to Pierre McGuire....

 

[Husko]

The definition of 'not a scheme fit' is someone who couldn't be used effectively within a particular scheme.

That's absolutely NOT the case for Simpson.

@Husko - I'm probably the biggest advocate for drafting RT @ 27... But I'd hate picking Bergeron. There are so many guys ahead of him & some people don't even project him to play tackle in the NFL.

I wouldn't hate him @ 59 - but there should still be better guys available. I'd prefer taking a swing on Freeland/Duncan/Morris.

Depends on who you ask, I guess. Dane has him as his #5 OT with a second round grade. Lance has him #5 offensive lineman overall (same score as Paris!). Both of them have the guts you mention much lower. (Dane: Freeland OT13; Duncan OT11; Morris OT12 - Lance has all 3 outside his top 20 OL).

I'd be fine with Bergeron at 27. Any investment in the OL is good with me. We have him at 34 FWIW.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Depends on who you ask, I guess. Dane has him as his #5 OT with a second round grade. Lance has him #5 offensive lineman overall (same score as Paris!). Both of them have the guts you mention much lower. (Dane: Freeland OT13; Duncan OT11; Morris OT12 - Lance has all 3 outside his top 20 OL).

I'd be fine with Bergeron at 27. Any investment in the OL is good with me. We have him at 34 FWIW.

I'm not advocating for any of those guys i mentioned at 27.

Of the players i expect should be available, my choice at 27 would be Harrison.

I'm not advocate of trading up - but if we could trade up for anyone it would be Wright.

 

[Husko]

I like Brugler and Zierlein, but this post is my annual shout out to the late Joel Buchsbaum. Joel was the greatest draftnik of all time. No one even comes close today. When Bill Belichick shares his draft board with you the day prior to the draft to get feedback, you're the GOAT.

View attachment 697648

Deserves to be called the GOAT for the computer setup alone.

I'm not advocating for any of those guys i mentioned at 27.

Of the players i expect should be available, my choice at 27 would be Harrison.

I'm not advocate of trading up - but if we could trade up for anyone it would be Wright.

FWIW he doesn't have Harrison going in the first, so I guess he likes Bergeron for the Bills more.

 

[Jim Bob]

The definition of 'not a scheme fit' is someone who couldn't be used effectively within a particular scheme.

That's absolutely NOT the case for Simpson.

Here is how you envision him potentially being used:

- Pass rusher, most likely in the 'Alexander' role - [JB: they haven't really used that role really since they moved to a base nickel D. And I doubt you see them move away from base nickel.]

- MLB, traditionally occupied by Edmunds. He's certainly not plug/play but brings many skills to the table where he'd be effective [JB: Not plug and play is code to me as not a scheme fit. He would be a projection to me and not a scheme fit.]

- OLB, typically occupied by Milano - who could possibly move around himself [JB: They have talked about how not wanting to move Milano from WLB. So, I don't see the need in that spot.]

- 'Big nickel' or slot. For this you would likely see safeties/Johnson moved around. We've talked about adding this type of player in JOK Or more recently speculated that a 3rd safety could be added to the field with Poyer/Hyde/Rapp [JB: I do not see the need with all the other options in that regard.]

Most people would expect Simpson being drafted as an Edmunds replacement at MLB and he is not a fit there.

Every other option you stated is either something the Bills don't really do now or something that other players are likely to fill.

I just think there will likely be other guys available that will be more impactful for the Bills barring McDermott making significant scheme changes that I do not see coming.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Who was on the original NFL Draft coverage on espn in the early years ? Boomer, Jackson, and Zimmerman ?

IT was 1980. Boomer was there and Bob Ley, but I can't remember the others. Kiper joined in 1984.

Deserves to be called the GOAT for the computer setup alone.


FWIW he doesn't have Harrison going in the first, so I guess he likes Bergeron for the Bills more.

Short story:

The Bills had every Pro Football Weekly draft guide in their draft room library. If you ever ordered one, it was a smaller paperback, but loaded with scouting information. I ordered them as a kid but was surprised that the Bills had them. The Bills copies looked like someone read them as well, with pages dog-eared and usage wear and tear.

When I was at the combine, I saw this really frail looking guy with huge coke bottle lens in his glasses frame. He was at the end of the 40 line with a stopwatch, and watched the position workouts. He stuck out like crazy because all the other scouts were former players, and you could tell they used to be athletes. Not this guy. I read his name tag in passing and it said "J Buchsbaum."

I never talked to him, but later in life wished I had. I did ask one of the Bills scouts about him, and he said he worked for a magazine, but did everything like a regular scout. I learned later about his friendship with Belichick. He was a grinder, and usually pretty spot on with his assessments.

Buchsbaum's work is why I really like Mark Edwards at Hockey Prospect. Part of scouting is that grind, knowing other scouts, and being trusted. Buchsbaum was the epitome of that type of person.

 

[Husko]

I'll reiterate that I really like Campbell the player, but not going to lie I'd be pretty excited if they took Sanders or Simpson as it would likely indicate a change in philosophy on the defense, something I'd like to see. The current iteration of it feels stale and I'd rather see the departure of Edmunds as a chance to evolve instead of just plugging in the closest thing we can find to an Edmunds replacement.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Here is how you envision him potentially being used:

- Pass rusher, most likely in the 'Alexander' role - [JB: they haven't really used that role really since they moved to a base nickel D. And I doubt you see them move away from base nickel.]

- MLB, traditionally occupied by Edmunds. He's certainly not plug/play but brings many skills to the table where he'd be effective [JB: Not plug and play is code to me as not a scheme fit. He would be a projection to me and not a scheme fit.]

- OLB, typically occupied by Milano - who could possibly move around himself [JB: They have talked about how not wanting to move Milano from WLB. So, I don't see the need in that spot.]

- 'Big nickel' or slot. For this you would likely see safeties/Johnson moved around. We've talked about adding this type of player in JOK Or more recently speculated that a 3rd safety could be added to the field with Poyer/Hyde/Rapp [JB: I do not see the need with all the other options in that regard.]

Most people would expect Simpson being drafted as an Edmunds replacement at MLB and he is not a fit there.

Every other option you stated is either something the Bills don't really do now or something that other players are likely to fill.

I just think there will likely be other guys available that will be more impactful for the Bills barring McDermott making significant scheme changes that I do not see coming.

The only two guys who are even comparable to Simpson are Campbell (if you want a plug/play type) & Sanders. Sanders obviously has similar questions to Simpson in the sense that's he'd likely be most effective with a slightly different role.

Both of them were gone by 59 in that particular PFF mock. Simpson is a fine pick there purely in terms of value & he also fills a need.

If you expect a prototypical MLB from this draft - you literally have to draft Campbell at 27 (or trading back from 27 as far as you dare). There are no other options....

 

[Jim Bob]

The only two guys who are even comparable to Simpson are Campbell (if you want a plug/play type) & Sanders. Sanders obviously has similar questions to Simpson in the sense that's he'd likely be most effective with a slightly different role.

Both of them were gone by 59 in that particular PFF mock. Simpson is a fine pick there purely in terms of value & he also fills a need.

If you expect a prototypical MLB from this draft - you literally have to draft Campbell at 27 (or trading back from 27 as far as you dare). There are no other options....

I disagree that he fills a need and I do not see any value with respect to a Bills specific board.

I would let another team take him and try and find a way to use him in today's NFL.

I am comfortable with the Bills either drafting Campbell or just going with Klein or Bernard at MLB in 2023. I would hope for Smith or Ika early if they opt to go really small at LB with Milano and Bernard.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

So i have run one last PFN mock, for the road.

Seems they have updated the board in the last week or so to be more realistic.

Still possible to get a haul though. Aside from not getting a RT - i think this one has something for everyone...

Trades:
27 for 38 & 70
38 for 43 & 143
43 & 143 for 44 & 110

44 MLB Jack Campbell
59 DT Mazi Smith
70 TE Sam Laporta
91 C Luke Wypler
110 WR Jonathan Mingo
130 EDGE Byron Young
137 CB Riley Moss
205 QB Dorian Thompson-Robinson

 

[truthbluth]

I need a trade today.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I disagree that he fills a need and I do not see any value with respect to a Bills specific board.

I would let another team take him and try and find a way to use him in today's NFL.

I am comfortable with the Bills either drafting Campbell or just going with Klein or Bernard at MLB in 2023. I would hope for Smith or Ika early if they opt to go really small at LB with Milano and Bernard.

I'm pretty certain you could use Simpson exclusively at MLB & get better results than by playing Klein or Bernard there instead.

You would obviously be wasting Simpson's talent in the process - but the team would still be getting better.

 

[Selanne00008]

So i have run one last PFN mock, for the road.

Seems they have updated the board in the last week or so to be more realistic.

Still possible to get a haul though. Aside from not getting a RT - i think this one has something for everyone...

Trades:
27 for 38 & 70
38 for 43 & 143
43 & 143 for 44 & 110

44 MLB Jack Campbell
59 DT Mazi Smith
70 TE Sam Laporta
91 C Luke Wypler
110 WR Jonathan Mingo
130 EDGE Byron Young
137 CB Riley Moss
205 QB Dorian Thompson-Robinson

My disappointment with this is there is no Hopkins, and no day 2 or better WR.
If the first trade was "27 for 38 - remove 70 and insert Hopkins" then I'm down with this mock.

 

[brian_griffin]

Just got to say I love the juxtaposition you have for defense in Buffalo Sports.

Indeed!

Kiper is dopey and far from the greatest, but calling him Eklund is going way too far. He has sources and a ton of experience doing this, even though he started as an amateur. Unlike Eklund, his name carries weight in the industry. With studies on mock draft accuracy, he generally grades out pretty average among most mock draft pundits.

(and)

I've thought for a while that Kiper is the NFLs answer to Pierre McGuire....

Kiper = Don Cherry? Been there forever, can be equal parts outrageous and wrong.

Deserves to be called the GOAT for the computer setup alone.

I'm not an IT guy, but I'm old enough to have seen those models. I'm thinking Compaq gear...?