Don't forget to tip your waitress.
Case in point of what I was talking about.
Red Sox/MLB 2023 Spring Training Begins- Forbes says Boston Red Sox are worth $4.5 billion
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Don't forget to tip your waitress.
Case in point of what I was talking about.
GatorMike
Registered User
Why do NPB teams keep signing MLB wash-outs?
Why do a lot (...not all) Japanese players who come to the US see their statistics suffer in comparison to what they were doing in Japan?
Some of Japan's very best players play in MLB. And MLB supplied most of the best players for not only the US, but also the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Mexico, Colombia, Panama, Puerto Rico, and Venezuela.
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Donnie Shulzhoffer
Rocket Surgery
With your ageism aside that is obviously showing you as Mr Elite at the moment you need to look at the roster of the Japan team and ask how many of these guys are playing in MLB.There's no consequences other than you proving that you obviously know zero about baseball or that time has passed you by. To say anything opposite to the now universal truth that NPB and MLB are equals after last night's game makes you look silly or old as dirt.
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EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
I would f***ing LOVE to hear him explain why fringe MLB players can suddenly flouish as stars in Japan if the two leagues are equal. And also why the best players not from Japan and the US play in MLB and not NPB. Pretty sure Latin Americans ae pretty f***ing good at baseball, and the best of them play in MLB.
I mean, it's just f***ing nonsense in every sense of the world. It's like saying the KHL is the equivalent of the NHL.
You can say NPB is a great league, maybe/probably the second best in the world, but saying it's just as good is asinine. Accusing anyone who accurately points that out as being some xenophobic jackal is pretty funny, though. I do enjoy a good commitment to the bit.
Players like Moises Alou, Warren Cromartie, Alfonso Soriano, and co weren't MLB washouts and completely shatter that narrative that all foreign hands are "MLB washouts". Also the reason that NPB can't fight dollar for dollar for top shelf MLB free agents are two fold: 1. Foreign players are seen as expensive and expendable and to commit ridiculous sums of money to someone you may cut halfway through a contract isn't worth it. 2. The Japanese economy isn't what it was like in the 80s when they could literally pluck players like Cecil Fielder off the Toronto Blue Jays for a season at a ridiculous some of cash because he's pissed off.
Again: Money and the challenge to play in the States and prove that they are as good as people think they are. If money was like it used to be in Japan back in the 80s, players wouldn't be leaving. Additional thing to ask which I'm curious about: do you think any of the players you saw on Japan's national team sans Nootbaar and Kwan would've developed into the high end caliber players that they are had they gone through the American minor league system?
Most of Japan's best players started in NPB. They wouldn't be on the national team or in MLB if it wasn't for NPB. Also, nowhere have I said in this string of posts (I have in the past but not recently) that MLB is lesser than NPB. I think NPB is the more pure form of baseball than MLB is, because Rob Manfred is a dumb ass who wants to mangle the league for the lowest common denominator (stuffy American baseball writers) rather than maintain the sports aspect of baseball. HOWEVER, to say that the two aren't on equal pegging is stupid. They are both major leagues, they both have quality talent, they are both the highest level any player can play at or hope to play at. That's now undisputed fact. Not opinion.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Not every minor league player who could just barely make it to MLB automatically rakes in Japan and that is a thoroughly debunked and laughable strawman which anyone who pays attention can tell you isn't the case. Use Google before you make yourself sound like a damn fool. The reason why some players who struggled at MLB do well in NPB like Rhodes, Petagine, Cabrera, Safarte, Bass, Murton, and so on ultimately comes down to opportunity and actually knowing what they have in terms of talent.
I mean...there was a time where it was pretty damn close with the NHL and KHL in the late 2000s after the lockout and a lot of the top Eastern European talents kept leaving to go get paid along with top prospects.
It ain't a bit. There is an American exceptionalism complex when it comes to NPB and other leagues around the world as being inferior because they aren't here. It also exists in basketball too, but that's a different kettle of fish. The only reason why the US was better and continues to have an arrogance that it is better the same way the English had towards soccer is that we, like the English, had the head start. The head start gap's closing and fast. The only thing that blocks NPB from having the capability from leap frogging MLB is money, and that's due to factors outside of NPB's control.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
was at the sports bar last night and everyone was glued to the game. lots of hype for a pre season warm up tournament.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Look at his stat line for his last year with the Tokyo Giants and his 1990 season back in MLB you stupid oaf. They are almost identical. But please, tell me more about how you don't know shit about baseball.
GatorMike
Registered User
- I never said that any foreigner who plays in NPB is an MLB washout. I said that NPB teams keep signing MLB washouts. For example, the reigning Japan Series Champion Orix Buffaloes just signed Marwin Gonzalez.
- Pointing out that the Japanese economy doesn't allow NPB teams to sign high-end talent isn't the argument you think it is.
- You didn't answer the question as to why a lot of NPB players who sign in MLB see their numbers drop in comparison to what they did in Japan.
- I don't see any indication that the American minor league system isn't producing high-end talent. Yeah, I think Ohtani would have been pretty good if he had started his baseball career at Rancho Cucomonga instead of Nippon.
- I think the NPB is pretty clearly the 2nd-best baseball league in the world. There's clearly a lot of really good talent in the league. It's just not as good as MLB.
4 currently do. Could've been six had Suzuki not gotten hurt and Senga joined the team. And by the next cycle, it will probably be more than double digits with Murakami, Sasaki, Yamamoto, Okamoto, and such being up on the posting system.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
You pointing to Warren f***ing Cromartie, who last played 30 f***ing years ago no less, as an example that both are EQUAL is hilarious. Everyone here is laughing at you, and all you keep doing is giving us reasons to. Keep going I can't get enough of it.
---Stupid Oaf
So if an MLB team like the Athletics takes a chance on a former NPB reliever that gets cut by an NPB team, does that mean they signed an NPB washout? Like I am trying to find the logic here because that's technically what Oakland just did by signing Fujinami from the Hanshin Tigers, using your logic.
It's the reality. The teams are seen as branches of major corporations like Yomiuri and Softbank. These companies, while they have money and the league is very profitable, still run the clubs at a loss. Some more than others. Without money, many players that NPB would've been able to hold onto or sign from MLB back when analytics weren't a thing now stay put. Just like how the restrictive salary cap in MLS prevents it from being able to steal fans away from the Premier League. There are hard realities that you can't ignore.
I did. They see most foreign players as disposable razors. Expensive and expendable, but could give you that slightest of edges to push you over the hump. Why make a long term commitment if the player won't fit in and adjust right away?
That's emphatically not true. The Hokkaido Fighters did interviews with over 350+ Taiwanese and Korean players in the MLB minors and almost every single one of them said they regret signing over when they did because their development got stunted by spinning their wheels in single and double AA. Furthermore, Ohtani wouldn't have been developed into the two way player he is had he gone into the MLB minors, Tazawa rule be damned, like he was under Kuriyama.
I respectfully would argue that it's 1b rather than 2.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
I could, and would, list more like Yuri Gurriel and so on but it would be redundant because you would find some magical bullshit excuse because "hurr durr MLB better".
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Okay, this will never be topped. Ever. Funniest thing anyone has ever said on this forum.
Spends days calling anyone who doesn't agree with his opinion a xenophobic moron then says this.
Uh.
May.
Zing.
Tell me Jim Cramer, can the Oakland Athletics afford to outspend the likes of Steve Cohen's Mets and Steinbrenner's Yankees for players like Correa and Judge if they don't have any f***ing money?
Gator Mike isn't you. Also I don't think anyone who disagrees with me on NPB vs MLB is a xenophobe. People who take the piss...different story.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
22Brad Park
Registered User
World Classic is over thankfully.I think if this Tournament was later in a season I might get into it more .Not saying it was not good baseball but it's tainted a bit calling yourself a true World Champion when one teams best pitchers are not there .I mean the US started Merrill if proof needs to be added .Anyhow not sour grapes just saying it's watered down a bit but still want to say Congrats Japan you won fair & square .
Again...this isn't the gotcha you think it is. Teams like the Tokyo Giants or the Saitama Lions could feasibly buy Bryce Harper or Ronald Acuna Jr. They choose not to because: 1. It's not like it was 40 years ago where they could spend freely on foreign players after the bubble economy burst without worrying about being financially tied down to a player, 2. foreign players are not typically the players they build around so long term, especially now with any franchise players that would typically be there not leaving following league wide acceptance of analytics in MLB, and 3. it's typically seen as being smarter to build from within especially after Sadaharu Oh and the Fukuoka Hawks led an analytics revolution as well as a revolution in how teams have training facilities, farm team development, and so on. The Hawks' system of development is comparable to that of the Rays and more teams are starting to pour resources into that route league wide as a means to play catch up because of the longer term return on investment. They are also doing this with regards to scouting foreign players as they look to sign from the same talent pools as the MLB teams do in the Dominican, Colombia, Venezuela, and the like along with Cuba. But please...continue to pretend like you have a point.
Therick67
Registered User
This reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer talks about building different levels in his apartment. Jerry bets Kramer he won't do it.
Kramer accepts the bet but then decides not build the levels. Jerry proclaims he won the bet, but Kramer said the bet is off, because he could have built the levels but he just decided not to...
Kramer accepts the bet but then decides not build the levels. Jerry proclaims he won the bet, but Kramer said the bet is off, because he could have built the levels but he just decided not to...
08SeaBass08
Maybe next year.
Chapter1. "Doubling Down When You've Already Lost the Room"
GatorMike
Registered User
Bob Kraft could afford to sign Erling Haaland, therefore MLS is just as good as the English Premier League.
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