Vachon23
Registered User
Ben Chiarot could quickly become the best UFA signing by Bergevin. After giving us 3 solid season, if he could give us a top 15 pick in a stack draft that would be the cherry on the top
HF Habs: 2023 Roster, Schedule & Standings Thread
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- Jun 24, 2012
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Another fine example of irrational exuberance by a GM at the trading deadline.
Plus, I don’t remember the last time a GM traded for a 1st rounder without it being protected. Masterclass by Hughes.
Vachon23
Registered User
That was a really dumb move to not protect the pick from Florida.
Is it really irrational TDL exuberance when on the open market he gets a multi-year $4.7M deal afterwards?
Or is it just that some GMs value players like that a lot?
- Jun 24, 2012
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What does what a player garnered in a trading environment have to do with how he was able to offer his services in an open market without an acquiring team having to expend any trading assets? Really?!?
A 3rd pairing D fetched an unprotected first rounder. If that doesn’t satisfy you that there are always teams at the deadline who will grossly overpay, then there is no point going further.
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Tetragrammaton
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- Mar 17, 2022
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Must lose game 4 big points in the battle for Bedard.
Hoping for an exciting high scoring loss!!
In HuGo we trust! GO HABS GO!
Hoping for an exciting high scoring loss!!
In HuGo we trust! GO HABS GO!
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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Might mean that Xhekaj isn’t getting sent down any time soon
Tetragrammaton
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The good news is that we know Bedard is unlikely and we want Adam FantilliI don't want to sound any early alarms here but I think we may be in trouble in the Connor Bedard sweepstakes vs the San Jose Sharks.
I did not say I was not satisfied. I think it was a great trade for us.
I was dealing with the term "irrational exuberance".
Irrational exuberance is dealing 1st rounder Danault for Weise and Fleischmann. Weise was not that valuable and the evidence is that he signed for just $2.5M two months afterwards.
Chiarot signed for almost $5M two months afterwards. This makes him a more desirable asset., He is not viewed as a 3rd pairing defender, nor did he play like one in the 2021 playoffs, where he averaged 25.25 minutes per night, most on the team! A first rounder does not sound irrational. Tatar for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd was less rational. A first rounder for a backup goalie is irrational exuberance. What we got for Chiarot was expected on my part. Still happy with it.
You can live downtown and work in Laval.
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- Jun 24, 2012
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No way you expected Chiarot to be traded for an unprotected first rounder. No one did.
Some Habs fans were hoping for a first rounder but thought it might be had with protection.
What Chiarot signed for a few months later with a team that expended no trading assets for him, has no bearing. It’s all about how some teams tend to overpay at the deadline and some even grossly overpay.
Please don’t move the goalposts by citing other transactions in completely different environments that have nothing to do with how some teams will act in an irrational manner in their quest to load up for the playoffs.
You're not appreciating that Chiarot was/is valued across the league as much more than what you termed a "3rd pairing defenceman". This value perception is NOT just a trade deadline temporary madness. It carried through to the open market just two months later where he got paid like a trusted D. Yes, I know that UFAs can be acquired without spending assets, just cap space, but there is definitely a correlation between a player's trade value and his contract value.
Take Lehkonen. Colorado paid basically a 1st and 2nd for him, then they played him at a similar level as they valued him in the trade, then they extended him at $4.5M x 5 years. Similar cap hit to Chiarot and similar return.
When you irrationally overpay at the TDL, like Vegas did with Tatar, you DON'T play him a lot once you realize what he brings, and you DON'T extend him, you instead dump him in a trade for almost nothing.
Whether you realize it or not, Chiarot's value was not overestimated because it was TDL time. His value is more permanent in the minds of many. The many can still be wrong.
As for the unprotected first, Florida's whole rationale for getting him is that they feel they are competing for the Cup. They did not expect to be a lottery team, and they probably won't be, much as we may hope they are. They were already pushing the draft pick back a year, Hughes probably said no way to any protection, and there were lots of other suitors for this 23+ minute per game defenceman.
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- Jun 24, 2012
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“Whether you’re realizing it or not”, it’s obvious that you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Proof is in the pudding — you couldn’t even admit that Hagel, who was traded for Boris Katchouk and Taylor Raddysh, and a first-round pick in the 2023 NHL Draft and 2024 NHL Draft that are top-10 protected, is an example of gross overpayment at the TDL.
All of this charade for what? Cause you lost your argument and can’t get yourself to admit you’re wrong? Well, sadly, you’re wrong. Moving on.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Even if Florida protected the pick, they would have ended up unprotecting it due to the other moves they made.
WinterLion
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MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
If he & Harris are getting a place they've been told they're with the team permanently, even so Laval isn't exactly that far away.
I have no idea what you are upset about, or why you think people would need to "win" arguments. I've certainly never felt that I could not "admit" to being wrong, as if such an admission would be a moral failure or something! A lot of what we do here is crystal balling, and being wrong happens a LOT.“Whether you’re realizing it or not”, it’s obvious that you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Proof is in the pudding — you couldn’t even admit that Hagel, who was traded for Boris Katchouk and Taylor Raddysh, and a first-round pick in the 2023 NHL Draft and 2024 NHL Draft that are top-10 protected, is an example of gross overpayment at the TDL.
All of this charade for what? Cause you lost your argument and can’t get yourself to admit you’re wrong? Well, sadly, you’re wrong. Moving on.
By the way, I never once discussed Hagel, but if you want my opinion, they overpaid. The proof? What is a guy with 13 points in his last 49 games worth?
You keep bringing up side-arguments when my main point is that I do not think Chiarot's return was an exuberant overpayment. A guy with an expiring contract who is worth $4.75M on a new contract is considered an important player and not just a depth piece. Important players will quite normally fetch a first and a B prospect when traded with retention at an annual cost of only $1.75M.
I get that YOU think Chiarot is a 3rd pairing defenceman, and that you disagree with how most of the league views him. But the league views his skills as important NOT ONLY AT THE TRADE DEADLINE. Montreal thought enough of him to play him over 25 minutes per game in a 13 win run to the Cup Finals. Florida thought enough of him to play him on the second pair of a President's Trophy team. And Detroit thought enough of him to outbid several others and give him a 4 year $19M contract and then play him as their #3D.
Your disconnnect with the general league view of Chiarot is not explained by "deadline exuberance".
Tatar was deadline exuberance. Hagel probably was too. Dale Weise for sure. Dwight King.
Not Chiarot. Chiarot is worth roughly what Lehkonen is worth, and neither player's trade return was unusually high given their normal (non-deadline) market value.
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An important point in this whole discussion.
There is really no need to insult Florida's management over this. What we know is that Hughes had options with Chiarot and simply did not permit protection. Good news, maybe, now let's see how Florida actually plays this season.
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gritdash60
Registered User
I just hope the Habs win a lot of games, i don't want you guys to get Bedard. You already have too much.
Marty (who i have no doubt will be considered top5 coach in the NHL soon, if not already.)
Slafkovsky (who will prove people who have talked trash wrong)
Caufield (who is proving myself who has talked trash about him wrong)
Guhle (how didn't this guy get drafted before #16)
Suzuki (budget Datsyuk, and i mean that in a good way)
Arber Xhekaj (i despise him, that asshole shouldn't play in the NHL, unless it's for my favorite team)
Kirby Dach (i know it's early to say but it really looks he might turn his career into something great in Habs)
And you are saying you have the chance for Bedard still? naaaaah pls let's be good enough not to make that happen!
Edit: yeah i probably missed some huge piece of your future but even the ones i mentioned are enough.
Marty (who i have no doubt will be considered top5 coach in the NHL soon, if not already.)
Slafkovsky (who will prove people who have talked trash wrong)
Caufield (who is proving myself who has talked trash about him wrong)
Guhle (how didn't this guy get drafted before #16)
Suzuki (budget Datsyuk, and i mean that in a good way)
Arber Xhekaj (i despise him, that asshole shouldn't play in the NHL, unless it's for my favorite team)
Kirby Dach (i know it's early to say but it really looks he might turn his career into something great in Habs)
And you are saying you have the chance for Bedard still? naaaaah pls let's be good enough not to make that happen!
Edit: yeah i probably missed some huge piece of your future but even the ones i mentioned are enough.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I was going to ask this question too. Has anybody ever traded a 1st without protection? I don't remember any at the TDL. On draft day yeah cause you then know where the pick is.
Hughes was likely offered multiple 1st from several teams and the Panthers called and ask... "what is it going to take". Rest is history
Redux91
I do Three bullets.
I like the cut of your jib lol
All I'll add is Beck and Mesar and 2 First round picks this year
(and god knows what we get at the deadline lol)Sorry, but we want MOAR.
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
BaseballCoag
Great post and your correct assumption on the discrepancy between how posters (often wrongly) perceive a player's value and think that actually dictates their worth on the actual market is a great point to bring up. There was nothing outrageous about what Florida gave up and even if Florida does end up giving away a top-15 pick, they'd have been stupid to actually expect it and manoeuvre from that POV.
Bedard- The dream is dead. We might end up having a better chance to get him or a top 10 pick with Florida
MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
Geezuz, dude, we're only 5 games into the season.
Our next 4 games are going to be really tough. Dallas is a really good team with excellent goaltending. Minnesota is a good team too although their goaltending has been horrible. That could be a wild one (8-6 kind of game).
After those 2 home games, it's a 4 game road to Buffalo (off to a great start), St. Louis, Minnesota & Winnipeg then we come home to play Vegas.
That's a tough stretch. Montreal so far has looked way better at home than they have on the road.
Long season. Enjoy the win! It was fun.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
We've scored what, 2 goals this season which weren't created or scored by an important youth piece of this team?
If the Habs play themselves out of a top 10 pick, it means we don't need one because the youth already here are stars.
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