Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season V - 58 games to go - Kiké Hernandez to the Dodgers for prospects

[JRull86]

Impressive, very nice. Now let's see the runs surrendered per game.

Not great, but they aren't as bad as I thought.

Tampa: 3.84
Toronto: 4.13
New York: 4.18
Baltimore: 4.43
Boston: 4.66

For context...Kluber, Ort, and Braiser are responsible for 84 runs in 99 IP between them.

Couple that with overall poor team defense (37 unearned runs) I'm surprised it's not higher.

 

[GatorMike]

Impressive, very nice. Now let's see the runs surrendered per game.

AL East Runs Allowed per game:
Tampa Bay - 3.84
Toronto - 4.13
New York - 4.18
Baltimore - 4.43
Boston - 4.66

You said they didn't have the offensive horsepower to compete in the AL East. You didn't say anything about preventing runs.

I'm not buying the idea that Yoshida gives the Red Sox any kind of significant edge when it comes to signing Ohtani. And I don't think I can adequately express in words how much I hate the idea of trading Mayer and Bello for a guy where the most positive outcome is that you end up handing him a contract for $500+ million entering his age 30 season.

 

[CDJ]

Pitching hasn’t even been a problem since the first month of the season, IMO it’s been the most consistently good part of the team since then

 

[EvilDead]

AL East Runs Allowed per game:
Tampa Bay - 3.84
Toronto - 4.13
New York - 4.18
Baltimore - 4.43
Boston - 4.66

You said they didn't have the offensive horsepower to compete in the AL East. You didn't say anything about preventing runs.

The point is that you need more offense than what you have currently to counter the amount of runs surrendered on a game to game basis. That or spend more money on pitching, which the Red Sox aren't interested in doing and just take flyers on bums who have no right putting on a Red Sox uniform

I'm not buying the idea that Yoshida gives the Red Sox any kind of significant edge when it comes to signing Ohtani. And I don't think I can adequately express in words how much I hate the idea of trading Mayer and Bello for a guy where the most positive outcome is that you end up handing him a contract for $500+ million entering his age 30 season.

Ohtani's not just some run of the mill baseball player. He's the best player in MLB and a generational talent to boot that is a proven commodity in baseball and has a higher floor and ceiling at 29 than all of the prospects in the Red Sox's system combined. And that's even if the Red Sox are developing their prospects right, which I have zero confidence in given how most of the prospects from the Betts trade have been total busts and how guys like Tanner Houck are absolute messes. At this point, I would rather trade futures for a real proven commodity that can actually win you games now than waiting for whatever hellish future that Chaim Bloom has cooked up for the team. The fans who are voting with their wallets feel the same way.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

The point is that you need more offense than what you have currently to counter the amount of runs surrendered on a game to game basis. That or spend more money on pitching, which the Red Sox aren't interested in doing and just take flyers on bums who have no right putting on a Red Sox uniform

Excellent moving of the goalposts here.

Ohtani's not just some run of the mill baseball player. He's the best player in MLB and a generational talent to boot that is a proven commodity in baseball and has a higher floor and ceiling at 29 than all of the prospects in the Red Sox's system combined. And that's even if the Red Sox are developing their prospects right, which I have zero confidence in given how most of the prospects from the Betts trade have been total busts and how guys like Tanner Houck are absolute messes. At this point, I would rather trade futures for a real proven commodity that can actually win you games now than waiting for whatever hellish future that Chaim Bloom has cooked up for the team. The fans who are voting with their wallets feel the same way.

The only player form the Betts trade that was a "bust" was Downs. Verdugo is a very good starting RF and Wong is developing into an elite defensive catcher with some pop. But continue whining about the Betts trade. At the very least, be more accurate? I know.... Tall task.

Tanner Houck is a mess? or a miss? What are you attempting to say. Both would be wrong but still.

Hellish future.... Bloom has continued to rebuild the system into a Top 10 system and only improved with their latest draft picks but continue to whine about things that aren't there. I know playing MLB The Show 23 and rebuilding a team after 30 minutes of simulating makes you an expert

Season 1 = A shortened season you had to suffer through. Poor you.
Season 2 = ALCS
Season 3 = Missed the playoffs
Season 4 = WC contention, unknown result

You people act like this team has been in the absolute shitter for 4 seasons. Boo hoo. Boo hoo. Wah wah. You had to wait for a little rebuild. Poor you!

It's gonna be a herculean task for sure, but the Red Sox have an in with Yoshida being close to Ohtani during their time on the Japanese National Team and I think he could sell the Red Sox as a big market club in need of a transformational talent like him. Now...it would help if the Red Sox got him in for a year first and would split with some of their prospects who, as high as some of their ceilings are, aren't worth getting defensive over and keeping when the prospect of getting Ohtani is on the table. Offer the Angels Mayer and a couple of pitching prospects, or even Bello if you have to, and get Ohtani in here for half a season so you can pitch Boston as a permanent destination.

**Insert Vomit Gif** here.

I don't think you should be able to criticize Bloom (or any GM for that matter) when you come up with horse-shit suggestions like this.

 

[Seidenbergy]

Season 1 = A shortened season you had to suffer through. Poor you.
Season 2 = ALCS
Season 3 = Missed the playoffs
Season 4 = WC contention, unknown result

You people act like this team has been in the absolute shitter for 4 seasons.

To be fair, you could also frame it this way:

Season 1: last place in division
Season 3: last place in division
Season 4: last place in division so far

 

[DKH]

View attachment 728263



Excellent moving of the goalposts here.



The only player form the Betts trade that was a "bust" was Downs. Verdugo is a very good starting RF and Wong is developing into an elite defensive catcher with some pop. But continue whining about the Betts trade. At the very least, be more accurate? I know.... Tall task.

Tanner Houck is a mess? or a miss? What are you attempting to say. Both would be wrong but still.

Hellish future.... Bloom has continued to rebuild the system into a Top 10 system and only improved with their latest draft picks but continue to whine about things that aren't there. I know playing MLB The Show 23 and rebuilding a team after 30 minutes of simulating makes you an expert

Season 1 = A shortened season you had to suffer through. Poor you.
Season 2 = ALCS
Season 3 = Missed the playoffs
Season 4 = WC contention, unknown result

You people act like this team has been in the absolute shitter for 4 seasons. Boo hoo. Boo hoo. Wah wah. You had to wait for a little rebuild. Poor you!



**Insert Vomit Gif** here.

I don't think you should be able to criticize Bloom (or any GM for that matter) when you come up with horse-shit suggestions like this.

What ? The Red Sox were 2 games away from WS before Astros pitchers figured out how to get spin rates up

That was less than 2 years ago lol

Sox fans acting like they been out of playoffs for 5 years when less than 2 years ago they beat Yankees & Rays - Eovoldi hosed game 4 they are likely in WS

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

To be fair, you could also frame it this way:

Season 1: last place in division
Season 3: last place in division
Season 4: last place in division so far

You could but the “last” place stuff is disingenuous to me. They’ve been last place bad once under Bloom’s tenure and it was a shortened season.

This year, I don’t care at all since they’re in the hunt for a playoff spot.

 

[CDJ]

Baseball Prospectus now has Roman Anthony as the #9 prospect in baseball, ahead of Marcelo Mayer at #10

org is not going in the right direction though! Booooo player development yayyyyyy sign every free agent

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

To be fair, you could also frame it this way:

Season 1: last place in division
Season 3: last place in division
Season 4: last place in division so far

You're both just on opposite extreme sides of the spectrum.

 

[Seidenbergy]

You're both just on opposite extreme sides of the spectrum.

I'm not. I've kept my opinion to myself. Just pointing out how easy it is to twist numbers and facts.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

I'm not. I've kept my opinion to myself. Just pointing out how easy it is to twist numbers and facts.

No you weren't wrong and neither was @BruinsFanSince94.

 

[DKH]

Anthony is only 19 comp more advanced as hitter than Anthony Rizzo & better athlete

He’s going to be a RF sounds like

 

[Mione134]

You go all out to sign Ohtani. That's what you do.

You don't try to trade for him. That's nonsense. Wait. Try to sign him. That's all you can do.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Baseball Prospectus now has Roman Anthony as the #9 prospect in baseball, ahead of Marcelo Mayer at #10

org is not going in the right direction though! Booooo player development yayyyyyy sign every free agent

These players don’t develop, CDJ. They just are. They appear in the MLB and exist. Superstars just exist. That’s they only player welcome in Boston but the cheap owners and dumb GM won’t get any. Except for Devers and Story. They don’t count.

Why can’t they just make them exist!

 

[JRull86]

The last place thing is totally disingenuous to me.

Yes, in the AL East they are in last.

They are also 2 games out of 3rd, would be leading the central, and would be 3 games out of first in the west.

 

[McGarnagle]

The divisions are so skewed this year that you have to take a bigger picture view.

The Red Sox have the 15th best record in baseball out of 30 teams. They're 7th of 15 American League teams. Despite the imbalanced schedules (which aren't as imbalanced as they used to be), that's a fair approximation for what they are. Right in the middle. They're not a bad team and nobody should treat them as such. But that doesn't mean they're a good team either.

At the halfway mark, they're pretty much in the same situation they started in - they could either stay mediocre, bomb out, or surprise and make a run. But there's a lot of work to do and I'm not placing bets on any outcome.

 

[BostonBob]

ESPN gave the Red Sox a grade of B for the first half of the season.

from espn.com:

Boston Red Sox: B​

Q: Are the Red Sox what we thought they were going to be?

Pretty much: good offense and mediocre starting pitching that has battled injuries (exactly as one might have predicted). They were shuffling along at .500 and seemingly going nowhere until they won eight of nine heading into the break to climb five games over .500 and sit just two games out of a wild-card spot.

For all the criticism thrown at ownership and the front office the past two seasons, the Red Sox are building around a fun new group of players to go alongside Rafael Devers: Jarren Duran suddenly looks like a good player, hitting .320 and lining doubles all over the place; Brayan Bello has been solid in the rotation; Masataka Yoshida, coming over from Japan, has been an on-base machine; Triston Casas has improved each month even if he hasn't made the same impact; and James Paxton is healthy (!) and just won AL Pitcher of the Month in June. How the Red Sox fare the next two weeks will determine whether he can be a valuable trade or they keep him and make a run for the AL Wild Card Series.


Full story: An A-plus and how many F's?! First-half grades for all 30 MLB teams

 

[EverettMike]

It really feels like the offense has cost them more games than the pitching.

Am I nuts or are the numbers skewed by a bunch of games where they gave up a shit ton of runs they didn't care about since they were going to lose anyway? Cora let some guys take absolute beatings (when it was warranted/smart).

 

[CDJ]

It really feels like the offense has cost them more games than the pitching.

Am I nuts or are the numbers skewed by a bunch of games where they gave up a shit ton of runs they didn't care about since they were going to lose anyway? Cora let some guys take absolute beatings (when it was warranted/smart).

Skewed by the first month or so when the starting pitching was allowing like 2.5 HR/9, unsustainably bad fly ball luck that has since corrected itself.

I’m in agreement- the last couple of months inconsistent bats and bad defense are bigger culprits in their losses. If they were to make a move at the deadline I’d want it to be for a SP but it’s not because of the units performance of late- there is just a ton of injury risk with the group and I want some insurance for that so we don’t have to run out bullpen games twice a week

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

It's their weak infield defense that kills them imo.

 

[Mione134]

It's their weak infield defense that kills them imo.

Getting Story back would be a huge help.

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

They HAVE the runs. It's just the stupid stupid (i wanna copy & paste stupid like 18 times) errors they make on defense that kills them.

The good thing is that its their own fault and should be correctable.

 

[yazmybaby]

I am happy with the way we have been playing this year.
Considering we have had terrible defense at SS all year, our best hitter during the first month of the year ( Duvall) came back a short while ago and has yet to find his stroke, Sale pitched well when he was healthy and is doubtful to come back this year, Whitlock and Houck, whom I thought would have good seasons have been less than stellar and Casas has struggled the majority of the season.
I like where we are in the standings and are still in the hunt for a wildcard spot.
Yoshida/Duggie/Duran/Big Red/Devers have had really good first halves of the season. Bello looks like a solid number 2 starter, may develop into a #1. Paxton is pitching like he did with the Yanks in 2019 and we have two solid relievers we can rely on with KJ and CM. I want us to make some minor tweaks to the roster by the trading deadline and look for another starter. If the right deal comes up I have no issues getting rid of Casas. I think Dalbec, who has had an MVP type first half in AAA deserves a chance to play with the team. If Bloom does not believe this, then trade him while we can get something back that is decent.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I am happy with the way we have been playing this year.
Considering we have had terrible defense at SS all year, our best hitter during the first month of the year ( Duvall) came back a short while ago and has yet to find his stroke, Sale pitched well when he was healthy and is doubtful to come back this year, Whitlock and Houck, whom I thought would have good seasons have been less than stellar and Casas has struggled the majority of the season.
I like where we are in the standings and are still in the hunt for a wildcard spot.
Yoshida/Duggie/Duran/Big Red/Devers have had really good first halves of the season. Bello looks like a solid number 2 starter, may develop into a #1. Paxton is pitching like he did with the Yanks in 2019 and we have two solid relievers we can rely on with KJ and CM. I want us to make some minor tweaks to the roster by the trading deadline and look for another starter. If the right deal comes up I have no issues getting rid of Casas. I think Dalbec, who has had an MVP type first half in AAA deserves a chance to play with the team. If Bloom does not believe this, then trade him while we can get something back that is decent.

Casas has been improving? He’s trended upward since the start. He had a really bad April.

Agree with most here but Dalbec is:

1.) Not a suitable Casas replacement and doesn’t make Casas expendable in the slightest

2,) Isnt bringing much back in a trade