2023 NHL Entry Draft

[Jaynki]

I’ve seen it in the past but wonder if anyone has seen it recently. It’s the scouting list, possibly Bobby Mac’s or NHL central scouting and how it’s failed vs. the actual NHL draft. If memory serves, the draft list faired better than the actual draft where teams went off the board, for the most part.

Honestly, if I ran an NHL team, I’d just go with the list and not try to over think it and go “off the board” and stay on the list that most scouts stuck by.

Nice observation.

Id rather not watch him from an all draft vs list point of view, but rather teams vs list point of view.

Which teams strikes better than the list?

 

[SOLR]

The upside is capped unless he finds a way to create outside his shot. I think he's a great prospect but he's not a play creator. His handles are pretty average, his zone exits and entries aren't great, he doesn't manipulate defenses enough and his playmaking is pretty much the lane that is there, he doesn't work to create new ones.

I see him as a winger unless he improves in those areas.

Nah, he's a grinding/shooting center. Again, way too good at faceoffs and front of the net to be a winger.

Put him on a line with a Savoie type of winger that opens-up the play and he's incredibly dangerous in the middle.

 

[Deam78]

I rarely post but reads this forum all the time. I've been thinking about 2 questions recently and with Pronman's release (even tough I'm not a fan of his rankings usually) I thought it'd be a good time to ask.

1) I've been wondering if the "reach for a player with size" Wilde was referring could be Nate Danielson. Pronman has him ranked 5th and Bob had him 15.
2) Would you prefer Dvorsky with our pick or Honzek with Florida's? I'm leaning Honzek, Pronman now has him 10th, Bob had him 19th

While it would not be my preference for this draft, how would everyone feel about leaving the first round with Danielson at our pick and Honzek at Florida's? Not sure how I'd feel

 

[BergevinBurner]

I’ve seen it in the past but wonder if anyone has seen it recently. It’s the scouting list, possibly Bobby Mac’s or NHL central scouting and how it’s failed vs. the actual NHL draft. If memory serves, the draft list faired better than the actual draft where teams went off the board, for the most part.

Honestly, if I ran an NHL team, I’d just go with the list and not try to over think it and go “off the board” and stay on the list that most scouts stuck by. Maybe move up or down a couple of spots depending on the player, need and outside forces, but overall I’d be really close to the main list and play it safe and hope for players to drop rather than overreach.

If we had Yzerman I'd be fine with him going off the board, but I don't exactly have faith in Bobrov and Gorton to go off the board lol.

 

[AHShadow]

Nah, he's a grinding/shooting center. Again, way too good at faceoffs and front of the net to be a winger.

Put him on a line with a Savoie type of winger that opens-up the play and he's incredibly dangerous in the middle.

I think this is the problem I have with drafting Dvorsky. Not him in particular, but I just don't think it's a good idea to draft a player that needs other players to get the best out of them.

If we're drafting top 6-7, I want to draft someone who will make other players better and doesn't depend on linemates to be effective. Best example on the Habs is how Dach seems to make anyone around him better (at the very least advanced stats wise).

Players like Benson, Smith, Cristall and Reinbacher (who I'm slowly warming up to) all have the potential to be this type of player.

 

[Jaynki]

If we had Yzerman I'd be fine with him going off the board, but I don't exactly have faith in Bobrov and Gorton to go off the board lol.

In New York, its when they picked consensus that they "failed". (Kakko/Lafreniere.)

They reached and failed Andersson and Kravtsov (dont know how much Kravtsov was a teach tho.)

Now this being said, they also succesfully traded up notably for K'Andre Miller, Braden Schneider and Nils Lunkqvist.

In Boston, Gorton also traded up for Marchand. Bobrov was the european scout for Krejci in the 2nd round. He was also European LA Kings scout when they got Voynov in the 2nd round. They were not reach nor traded for, but Gorton and Bobrov are also part of the Boston brass that drafted Bergeron, Lucic, traded Raycroft for Rask, etc.

In 2014, Bobrov was working in the KHL and its a known story that following his intels, Gorton insisted on Glen Sather thay they draft Shesterkin, to which Sather was hesitant. It turned well hasn't it.

Now, i understand that the track record is far from perfect. But after a failed decade of failing our 1st pick, failing to acquire more 1st and failure to trade 1st for quality player to surround the awesome core we had, i think it is fair to give the new people a chance.

The jury is still out on this one but the 2022 drafts looks like a hit. We already have acquired three new 1st rd pick and Gorton was an agressive GM, both in Boston and NYR when it was time to acquire superstar talent.

 

[Beer and Chips]

In my opinion this is why he signed his contract for the next 3 years.

His contract means the Habs can't rush him so when he comes over he will be ready for NHL.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Nice observation.

Id rather not watch him from an all draft vs list point of view, but rather teams vs list point of view.

Which teams strikes better than the list?

Only problem is that teams guard their lists so you'd never be able to see it.

 

[le_sean]

I rarely post but reads this forum all the time. I've been thinking about 2 questions recently and with Pronman's release (even tough I'm not a fan of his rankings usually) I thought it'd be a good time to ask.

1) I've been wondering if the "reach for a player with size" Wilde was referring could be Nate Danielson. Pronman has him ranked 5th and Bob had him 15.
2) Would you prefer Dvorsky with our pick or Honzek with Florida's? I'm leaning Honzek, Pronman now has him 10th, Bob had him 19th

While it would not be my preference for this draft, how would everyone feel about leaving the first round with Danielson at our pick and Honzek at Florida's? Not sure how I'd feel

Why reach on Danielson when we just drafted Beck? It would be a really bad decision. Plus we just traded the 13th overall pick for another centre in Dach, along with our captain signed long term. It cannot be him.

 

[Mrb1p]

I rarely post but reads this forum all the time. I've been thinking about 2 questions recently and with Pronman's release (even tough I'm not a fan of his rankings usually) I thought it'd be a good time to ask.

1) I've been wondering if the "reach for a player with size" Wilde was referring could be Nate Danielson. Pronman has him ranked 5th and Bob had him 15.
2) Would you prefer Dvorsky with our pick or Honzek with Florida's? I'm leaning Honzek, Pronman now has him 10th, Bob had him 19th

While it would not be my preference for this draft, how would everyone feel about leaving the first round with Danielson at our pick and Honzek at Florida's? Not sure how I'd feel

I like Danielson but if they pick him with our first Ill be pretty bummed. He's a good player, and will be a solid piece, but he just doesn't do anything for me.

Why pick Danielson at 6 or 7 when youre likely getting either Dvorsky or himself at Floridas ?

I'd be absolutely fine with Honzek at Floridas pick, depending on whos left. I have him at 16, so I think thats around where he should go. With MTLs, it has to be Reinbacher or one of the small forwards IMO.

Any of Reinbacher, Cristall, Benson, Smith or Heidt and Ill be happy. Thats a pool of 9 players total that I would like for them to pick with their pick, so it's a pretty big pool. They can do wtv the frick they want with Floridas, reach for size, go for BPA, reach for anything, idc. The draft is gonna be a success if we get one of those 9 guys. Personally, I would do Reinbacher, Benson, Smith, Cristall, Heidt in that order, because I think the first three have no chance of being there at Floridas pick and I think its a lot more likely we get something similar to the four small forwards at Floridas if theyre not there, but not Reinbacher.

If these forwards are all gone, and they pick Reinbacher, one of Yager, Barlow, Honzek, Dvorsky, Danielson, Moore, Leonard, Perrault, Perron, Wood, etc would be there.

I think this is the problem I have with drafting Dvorsky. Not him in particular, but I just don't think it's a good idea to draft a player that needs other players to get the best out of them.

If we're drafting top 6-7, I want to draft someone who will make other players better and doesn't depend on linemates to be effective. Best example on the Habs is how Dach seems to make anyone around him better (at the very least advanced stats wise).

Players like Benson, Smith, Cristall and Reinbacher (who I'm slowly warming up to) all have the potential to be this type of player.

Dvorsky has insane value if he pans out though. He's not a player that needs anyone, he will be good regardless. He opens up a lot of space with his size, heaviness and the constant threat he poses in the middle of the ice and with his shot on the outside. He's also nowhere near as "low ceiling" as some have been saying.

He could be real money with Dach or Slaf, and he could also be a very good 3rd wheel to Caufield + someone else. I also like that despite his strength as a center, there's a quality in his wing game that makes it nice to see he has the versatility.

I see a lot of Pavelski in him, and honestly thats a money player.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I'm not sure how someone can watch Zach Benson play hockey and consider his hockey sense merely "above average." If someone is not a fan of his physical profile and how it will translate against faster, stronger players, that is a legitimate point of concern, but anyone who watches Benson and thinks he isn't one of the smartest prospects of the last few drafts is beyond me.

Also not sure how someone can watch Daniil But skate and call it "average," he's a good prospect but watching him skate makes me die a little inside.

 

[Mrb1p]

I'm not sure how someone can watch Zach Benson play hockey and consider his hockey sense merely "above average." If someone is not a fan of his physical profile and how it will translate against faster, stronger players, that is a legitimate point of concern, but anyone who watches Benson and thinks he isn't one of the smartest prospects of the last little is beyond me.

Also not sure how someone can watch Daniil But skate and call it "average," he's a good prospect but watching him skate makes me die a little inside.

Who said Benson was above average ? He's literally all over the ice, thats a bit tame. Also I don't like how he's pictured as a bad skater because he's not Byron. Same is said of Caufield, but its just not true. My money is on Benson actually being faster than a lot of "average speed" 6'+ players even in the NHL.

 

[SlafySZN]

Who said Benson was above average ? He's literally all over the ice, thats a bit tame. Also I don't like how he's pictured as a bad skater because he's not Byron. Same is said of Caufield, but its just not true. My money is on Benson actually being faster than a lot of "average speed" 6'+ players even in the NHL.

Yeah, and he will probably improve his skating even more before he gets to the NHL so that’s not a concern at all.

 

[Lockin17]

 

[JT3]

Outside of the top 4, I've got something like Reinbacher/Benson and then Smith. I see real value in taking Reinbacher there given the amount of talented forwards that will be available at the Florida pick. Reinbacher + one of Honzek/Danielsson/Moore/Leonard/Barlow/Wood/Cristall/Sale? Sign me up. So many forward options in that range, with comparatively little D-men.

 

[morhilane]

Who said Benson was above average ? He's literally all over the ice, thats a bit tame. Also I don't like how he's pictured as a bad skater because he's not Byron. Same is said of Caufield, but its just not true. My money is on Benson actually being faster than a lot of "average speed" 6'+ players even in the NHL.

I first went to watch (2022-2023) videos of Benson to see how bad his skating was since I was reading everywhere it wasn't good enough. I left wondering if people were complaining about it, because they had nothing else to complain about.

His posture/technic might not be perfect, but he accelerate fast, has great mobility and he's solid on his skates.

 

[montreal]

Isn’t Wood’s size moot? He’s a skilled player and rarely uses it in a context where we can say “we got ourselves a bid body”

he's not a crash and banger but I wouldn't say his size is moot, haven't seen him in a bit though so next time I do I will pay more attention to him for sure.

 

[montreal]

I re-watched again game highlights from Dalibir Dvorsky and i honestly dont know why he’s so low on some list. His shot/shot release is elite. His implications is very good for a 17 years old against man. He throws his weight around a lot. His skating isn’t a red flag and against players of his group of age, he just flat out dominate.

Once we know where we are picking it will be easier as I would look at Dvorsky for the panthers pick assuming they hopefully end up in that 10-13th or so range. But I don't think I would take the risk, 3 1st round picks in back to back drafts that are so important, to take 3 Slovak players is risky and depending who's on board still, I might lean in a different direction just to play it safe.

 

[McGees]

Pronman/Athletic has Leonard's comparable as... Lehkonen
I just don't see it.

 

[Playmaker09]

Who said Benson was above average ? He's literally all over the ice, thats a bit tame. Also I don't like how he's pictured as a bad skater because he's not Byron. Same is said of Caufield, but its just not true. My money is on Benson actually being faster than a lot of "average speed" 6'+ players even in the NHL.

TBH he's not much different a skater than Cooley was last year, who everyone was drooling about.

Just lacks a little power which will develop in time.

 

[JT3]

he's not a crash and banger but I wouldn't say his size is moot, haven't seen him in a bit though so next time I do I will pay more attention to him for sure.

Someone compared him to Perry at one point and I like that. Not a great skater but big, smart, skilled guy who will have good hands in tight around the net and can bang in pucks.

 

[Playmaker09]

Pronman/Athletic has Leonard's comparable as... Lehkonen
I just don't see it.

View attachment 664735

I'd say Dustin Brown, but it's hard to find a comparable who plays that type of game while being 6'0 or less.

 

[le_sean]

So Dvorsky, like Slaf is totally dominating peers of his age.

But like Slaf, he underproduced in a mens league. Dvorsky had a similar production but not in Liiga, in the f***ing Allsvenskan. He also did not have the stellar performance at the paralympic games and against Congo and North Korea in the world cup.

I can't wait to hear how many tier above he is than Slaf after his first rookie camp.

Keep in mind that Kopitar only produced in the J20 his draft year and didn’t so much when brought up a level. Dominated junior tournaments, like Dvorsky at the U18. Profiled similar, as a bigger two-way centre.

Not saying they have similar trajectories, but there are things to like in Dvorsky’s game (two-way, centre, size, shot) that are enough to take him Top 10 with the hope that he finds another level next year.

I’ve also said it before, but he fits well with our two other Slovaks.

 

[John B]

I’ve seen it in the past but wonder if anyone has seen it recently. It’s the scouting list, possibly Bobby Mac’s or NHL central scouting and how it’s failed vs. the actual NHL draft. If memory serves, the draft list faired better than the actual draft where teams went off the board, for the most part.

Honestly, if I ran an NHL team, I’d just go with the list and not try to over think it and go “off the board” and stay on the list that most scouts stuck by. Maybe move up or down a couple of spots depending on the player, need and outside forces, but overall I’d be really close to the main list and play it safe and hope for players to drop rather than overreach.

I think the reason the lists tend to do better is because there is less bias. It's all about who they see as BPA/highest upside/best chance to make it. Teams sometimes will go with need over BPA (or preference of a certain type of player), which sometimes results in some underwhelming prospects or at least led to a better player being drafted after them.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Who said Benson was above average ? He's literally all over the ice, thats a bit tame. Also I don't like how he's pictured as a bad skater because he's not Byron. Same is said of Caufield, but its just not true. My money is on Benson actually being faster than a lot of "average speed" 6'+ players even in the NHL.

Sorry, should have quoted the post that had Corey Pronman's rankings, context is missing otherwise.

2023 NHL Draft ranking: Connor Bedard is still No. 1, but who has moved up?

Connor Bedard tops Corey Pronman's March ranking of the top prospects at the 2023 NHL Draft.

theathletic.com