2023 Free Agency/UFA Targets

[Shaman464]

Trust me when I tell you that I know a lot more about the area hes from than you do. Detroit is basically a straight shot up to Goderich with a nice drive along the lake. Theres probably a difference of 10 km between Detroit, Toronto and his hometown. From Detroit you dont have to worry about driving through some of the worst traffic in the entire world like you do in Toronto.

Also if youre calling where hes from semi-rural Ontario and not a straight up rural hock area, I know you dont know the area. They definitely dont have much in common with Detroit in Huron county, but you know where they have even less in common with probably?

And its all really beside the point. If Toronto doesnt have the room or cap space for him but he wants to sign somewhere close to home, you know where he would probably sign? The place that is literally as close as Toronto is in proximity to his hometown

Believe me, I grew up in Detroit and spent a lot of time on the other side of the river (including some time at Western University). First, its semi-rural. Its not the Great Plains. Until you've been in the middle of the US/Canada or South you don't know rural (or in Michigan, if you have to use a shotgun or a bow, not a rifle, to hunt a deer, you're not in the rural parts of the state). Goderich is about 2.5 hours from two of the biggest metro areas in the great lakes. Pretty much every definition of semi-rural is that it has features of rural living but are within relatively close proximity to larger metro areas.

Second, its not about proximity, its about culture. Detroit metro area is not the same as Ontario other than the Windsor area culturally. Having spent quite a lot of time in Ontario I can say without a doubt that no one outside of Windsor would agree with you. Being equal distances from Toronto and Detroit doesn't matter. It's like saying that Cleveland is a couple hours from Detroit, its like playing near home. It's not.

There is no way O'Reilly would come to Detroit if his motivation is to be close to home. He'd find a way to stay a Leaf if that was his major concern. He would only come to Detroit if he was given a contract that everyone here would instantly hate.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I’d be interested in Ryan o’reilly depending on the term and price he’d want but if he wants a lot for both I’m out on that. I think the RHD from the islanders is a must get for us though.

 

[newfy]

Believe me, I grew up in Detroit and spent a lot of time on the other side of the river (including some time at Western University). First, its semi-rural. Its not the Great Plains. Until you've been in the middle of the US/Canada or South you don't know rural (or in Michigan, if you have to use a shotgun or a bow, not a rifle, to hunt a deer, you're not in the rural parts of the state). Goderich is about 2.5 hours from two of the biggest metro areas in the great lakes. Pretty much every definition of semi-rural is that it has features of rural living but are within relatively close proximity to larger metro areas.

Second, its not about proximity, its about culture. Detroit metro area is not the same as Ontario other than the Windsor area culturally. Having spent quite a lot of time in Ontario I can say without a doubt that no one outside of Windsor would agree with you. Being equal distances from Toronto and Detroit doesn't matter. It's like saying that Cleveland is a couple hours from Detroit, its like playing near home. It's not.

There is no way O'Reilly would come to Detroit if his motivation is to be close to home. He'd find a way to stay a Leaf if that was his major concern. He would only come to Detroit if he was given a contract that everyone here would instantly hate.

You literally have no idea what youre talking about lol. Like actually 0 and youre doubling down on it

Youre going to say Windsor is similar in culture to Detroit but nowhere else in Ontario is? I'll have some of what youre having. Windsor doesnt have some really different culture compared to most Ontario cities at all, especially anything south of Toronto. Toronto and the golden horsehsoe definitely has their own culture going on, but places like Clinton would 100%, no doubt about it, have more similarities with Windsor than Toronto if you want to split really dumb hairs about it.

Also I said absolutely f*** all about culture to begin with. I didnt say he wants to feel like hes heading down to Seaforth for a mens league game then heading to Cowbell for beers after while at LCA. I said a non money or cup reason he might sign in Detroit is because he wants to be closer to home. As in, be able to go home for thanksgiving and Christmas with his parents or siblings or whoever. A 2.5 hr drive is a 2.5 hr drive, I dont care if one place has their own pizza style or coney dogs. You know that culture and proximity are 2 different things right?

I'm not even going to get into how irrelevant visiting Western a couple times is. Its where all the Toronto kids escape to for school and wouldnt give you a read of Ontario at all. I'm also not going to get into how you actually dont know what semi rural means either, you have to much to chew on without getting into that

 

[Shaman464]

You literally have no idea what youre talking about lol. Like actually 0 and youre doubling down on it

Youre going to say Windsor is similar in culture to Detroit but nowhere else in Ontario is? I'll have some of what youre having. Windsor doesnt have some really different culture compared to most Ontario cities at all, especially anything south of Toronto. Toronto and the golden horsehsoe definitely has their own culture going on, but places like Clinton would 100%, no doubt about it, have more similarities with Windsor than Toronto if you want to split really dumb hairs about it.

Also I said absolutely f*** all about culture to begin with. I didnt say he wants to feel like hes heading down to Seaforth for a mens league game then heading to Cowbell for beers after while at LCA. I said a non money or cup reason he might sign in Detroit is because he wants to be closer to home. As in, be able to go home for thanksgiving and Christmas with his parents or siblings or whoever. A 2.5 hr drive is a 2.5 hr drive, I dont care if one place has their own pizza style or coney dogs. You know that culture and proximity are 2 different things right?

I'm not even going to get into how irrelevant visiting Western a couple times is. Its where all the Toronto kids escape to for school and wouldnt give you a read of Ontario at all. I'm also not going to get into how you actually dont know what semi rural means either, you have to much to chew on without getting into that

I didn't visit London/Western University, I was a researcher there. I spent significant time as a scientist at the Robarts Institute. Your best argument is that as an American, even having spent significant time in Ontario, I saw things differently than a local. Which is true. I did. I didn’t see Canada as the 51st state but a country with a lot of fundamental differences from the US and also a lot of similarities that many neighboring countries in this world don’t have. In spite of my contempt for Canadian teams winning cups, I have a deep affection for Canada.

I said the Windsor area, not just the city, but the statistical area. Outside of there you see a major shift. Sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about.

I understand that Toronto isn't the same as London isn't the same as Guelph and they all shit on Thunder bay. But they are very decidedly not American. And again, once you get outside of the Windsor area there is a pretty clear understanding that Toronto is the major center.

As for proximity, then why not Boston, New York, Philly, Pittsburgh, Ottawa or back to Buffalo? Those are about 3 hours worth of flights from his home? If its just travel time there are many cities within trivial travel time? There are many teams he can pick, most of which are closer to competition than Detroit.

"RoR mAy WaNt To CoMe To DeTrOiT bEcAuSe 3 HoUr TrAvEl TiMe" is a forced argument at best. Especially when it's not like he's from the middle of New Mexico and the only team anywhere close are the Yotes. He's from a city that is relatively close (by flight hours) to many of the biggest cities in North America, many of which have teams currently in the playoffs. The world is his oyster. The only thing Detroit offers RoR are dollars, dollars he's not worth.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Should we do a separate thread for college and junior UFA potentials?

 

[norrisnick]

Should we do a separate thread for college and junior UFA potentials?

No

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

No

Sooo… we want to talk about undrafted players to sign in the same thread people are shitting on ROR and any other FA name as “not a needle mover”?

 

[newfy]

I didn't visit London/Western University, I was a researcher there. I spent significant time as a scientist at the Robarts Institute. Your best argument is that as an American, even having spent significant time in Ontario, I saw things differently than a local. Which is true. I did. I didn’t see Canada as the 51st state but a country with a lot of fundamental differences from the US and also a lot of similarities that many neighboring countries in this world don’t have. In spite of my contempt for Canadian teams winning cups, I have a deep affection for Canada.

I said the Windsor area, not just the city, but the statistical area. Outside of there you see a major shift. Sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about.

I understand that Toronto isn't the same as London isn't the same as Guelph and they all shit on Thunder bay. But they are very decidedly not American. And again, once you get outside of the Windsor area there is a pretty clear understanding that Toronto is the major center.

As for proximity, then why not Boston, New York, Philly, Pittsburgh, Ottawa or back to Buffalo? Those are about 3 hours worth of flights from his home? If its just travel time there are many cities within trivial travel time? There are many teams he can pick, most of which are closer to competition than Detroit.

"RoR mAy WaNt To CoMe To DeTrOiT bEcAuSe 3 HoUr TrAvEl TiMe" is a forced argument at best. Especially when it's not like he's from the middle of New Mexico and the only team anywhere close are the Yotes. He's from a city that is relatively close (by flight hours) to many of the biggest cities in North America, many of which have teams currently in the playoffs. The world is his oyster. The only thing Detroit offers RoR are dollars, dollars he's not worth.

Are you intentionally dense or you dont actually see the difference between living a 2.5 hour drive down the highway vs having to fly from somewhere like NYC?

He could play in a place like Detroit or Toronto and his parents could hop in the car and hit as many of his home games as they want. Orrrrr he could play in NYC, his parents could drive 2.5 hours to the airport, get there 2.5 hours early, have a 2 hour flight, get off the plane, hop in a cab and head to where he lives in New York? Have a 6-7 hour travel day minimum that has flight times decided by an airline company and then he has house guests for a couple days.

O'Reilly is going on a road trip for a long weekend. His wife can either load up the kid in the back of a car at their own pace and head home for the weekend instead of being home alone with just the kid. Orrrrr she can load the kid up for the airport, pack all the essentials, fly into Toronto or Detroit, have someone organised to pick them up 2.5 hours away and then turn around and do it again 3 days later when its time to head home. Not to mention her nieces or nephews birthdays you could drive to for just a day, thanksgiving or anything else. Any help with childcare and mom can hop in the car 15 minutes after receiving a text message

You thinking this kind of stuff doesnt matter to some players is actually really, really dumb. A player that has a cup, conn smythe and close to 80 million usd earnings to his name would be even more likely to think like that.

And its all extra dumb because I was just giving an example of why a player might choose to sign somewhere that isnt just money or cups. Ryan Suter literally pulled this on Detroit but youre going to pretend this is just some made up BS? Get a grip

 

[norrisnick]

Sooo… we want to talk about undrafted players to sign in the same thread people are shitting on ROR and any other FA name as “not a needle mover”?

Yes

Unless you want threads for FAs from playoff teams, non playoff teams, Canadian teams, Sunbelt teams, etc... All in different threads. They're free agents. This is a free agent thread. Discuss away.

 

[Spitfire11]

Any opinions on Matt Dumba? RHD seems like a guy they could use if it doesn’t take a huge term to sign him

 

[Bench]

Any opinions on Matt Dumba? RHD seems like a guy they could use if it doesn’t take a huge term to sign him

Matt Dumba will be polarizing because he's a Swiss army knife, 2nd pairing guy. He's not putting up the production he used to, but he's also not a defensive stalwart. He's good, though. You could do a lot worse in free agency than Dumba that's for sure.

He reminds me of Trevor Daley at this point.

 

[norrisnick]

Matt Dumba will be polarizing because he's a Swiss army knife, 2nd pairing guy. He's not putting up the production he used to, but he's also not a defensive stalwart. He's good, though. You could do a lot worse in free agency than Dumba that's for sure.

He reminds me of Trevor Daley at this point.

Trick is, Dumba at this point slots between Maatta and Chiarot salary wise. Is he going to be willing to take a massive pay cut?

 

[Bench]

Trick is, Dumba at this point slots between Maatta and Chiarot salary wise. Is he going to be willing to take a massive pay cut?

He's going to make less than his last contract of $6 million. He had 14 points this year. If I'm his agent, I aim for between 4 and 5 million, ala Chiarot. He's one of the few under 30-years-old defenders hitting the market, so that's probably reasonable.

 

[MBH]

Matt Dumba will be polarizing because he's a Swiss army knife, 2nd pairing guy. He's not putting up the production he used to, but he's also not a defensive stalwart. He's good, though. You could do a lot worse in free agency than Dumba that's for sure.

He reminds me of Trevor Daley at this point.

Trevor Daley was awful at the end.
Daley's a lot young than Dumba was, but Dumba is also pretty washed on a good team.
I think I'd avoid Dumba unless you can get him for $3M or so.

Honestly, I'd rather a Gudas or Mayberry type.

 

[Shaman464]

He's going to make less than his last contract of $6 million. He had 14 points this year. If I'm his agent, I aim for between 4 and 5 million, ala Chiarot. He's one of the few under 30-years-old defenders hitting the market, so that's probably reasonable.

I bet that Dumba is happy you're not his agent then. Unless he's going to take a haircut to play for a contender, there are many teams that are going to be bidding for his talents. This year wasn't good but on average he's been good for 30 points and can play 22 minutes a night. He's not a #1 guy, but on most of the non-playoff teams he could slot in on a top pairing.

 

[Bench]

Trevor Daley was awful at the end.
Daley's a lot young than Dumba was, but Dumba is also pretty washed on a good team.
I think I'd avoid Dumba unless you can get him for $3M or so.

Honestly, I'd rather a Gudas or Mayberry type.

Thanks for chipping in that insight that an athlete at 37 isn't as good as when he was 27.

If you value skating, he's going to bring way more than Gudas or Mayberry Mayfield. But I know you're a toughness dude.

I don't really care either way, though, I was just answering the man's question. Dumba is an athletic defender who was expected to have more offensive to his game, and that hasn't developed, but he's still a useful middle pairing cog if you want a team that is mobile. He doesn't shy away from physical play, either.

 

[Bench]

I bet that Dumba is happy you're not his agent then. Unless he's going to take a haircut to play for a contender, there are many teams that are going to be bidding for his talents. This year wasn't good but on average he's been good for 30 points and can play 22 minutes a night. He's not a #1 guy, but on most of the non-playoff teams he could slot in on a top pairing.

Feel free to bump this when he gets $6 million again, then. I'm all for being surprised. I do not think he gets a Hampus Lindholm deal as you're suggesting, but free agency is full of fun overpayment.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Crazy thought but it might be worth it…

Sign Lafreniere to an offersheet of 4.28 mil x3 years or whatever is beneath the threshold for paying more than a 2nd for him.

The rangers only have 11.7 million in cap space and a lot of holes to fill as well as K’Andre Miller needs a raise that’ll eat up 4+ of that. We may be able to steal Laf away.

 

[MBH]

Thanks for chipping in that insight that an athlete at 37 isn't as good as when he was 27.

If you value skating, he's going to bring way more than Gudas or Mayberry Mayfield. But I know you're a toughness dude.

I don't really care either way, though, I was just answering the man's question. Dumba is an athletic defender who was expected to have more offensive to his game, and that hasn't developed, but he's still a useful middle pairing cog if you want a team that is mobile. He doesn't shy away from physical play, either.

You're welcome.
Dumba had the offense in his game, but his game declined.
And a lot of times, players who decline never get it back.

 

[norrisnick]

Crazy thought but it might be worth it…

Sign Lafreniere to an offersheet of 4.28 mil x3 years or whatever is beneath the threshold for paying more than a 2nd for him.

The rangers only have 11.7 million in cap space and a lot of holes to fill as well as K’Andre Miller needs a raise that’ll eat up 4+ of that. We may be able to steal Laf away.

Why not just trade for him? If they aren't going to use him they might take a pick/body deal rather than pissing off a team when we hopefully have good young kids to sign in the not too distant future.

Also, how shitty are you going to be to a $4.28M/yr Zadina? Given how shitty you are to a $1.8M/yr Zadina...

 

[norrisnick]

Thanks for chipping in that insight that an athlete at 37 isn't as good as when he was 27.

If you value skating, he's going to bring way more than Gudas or Mayberry Mayfield. But I know you're a toughness dude.

I don't really care either way, though, I was just answering the man's question. Dumba is an athletic defender who was expected to have more offensive to his game, and that hasn't developed, but he's still a useful middle pairing cog if you want a team that is mobile. He doesn't shy away from physical play, either.

Skating?

 

[Bench]

You're welcome.
Dumba had the offense in his game, but his game declined.
And a lot of times, players who decline never get it back.

He had one outlier season. He didn't really decline, he just never was an offensive guy. The story around Dumba has always been "Oh boy, if he ever puts it together...". Year after year. He's been consistent as a 20-30 point, mobile, middle pairing defender. In the right situation, maybe those numbers move up a little. Or down like they did this year.

You know, like Trevor Daley, who was always "on the verge" of breaking out offensively. That never happened, but Daley was still a valuable contributor to winning back-to-back Cups with the Penguins.

Dumba could find a similar niche.

 

[Bench]

Skating?

Terribly overrated. Don't worry about it.

 

[norrisnick]

Terribly overrated. Don't worry about it.

I was just a bit confused about you bringing it up as some aren't aware that hockey actually involves skating.

 

[Bench]

I was just a bit confused about you bringing it up as some aren't aware that hockey actually involves skating.

Can't tell if you meant "as IF some aren't aware" or if you're agreeing with me.

But just incase, here's the point:
Dumba is a great skater and he's basically McDavid-level compared to Gudas and Mayfield. So if you value skating, it's not really much of a choice.