GDT: 2023 Caps NHL Draft Thread

[usiel]

Compete level should be a bear minimum for a top 10 pick, or any pro really. It being the selling point should be terrifying.

Politely not seeing the skill here seems a bit myopic.

There are 7th rounders with the same "compete level" as 1st rounders. Quintin Laing had tons of "compete level." Matt Hendricks had tons of "compete level." Beck Malenstyn has tons of "compete level." I don't want any of them as a top 10 pick.

It's like @Brian23 said, compete level is the bare minimum you want with a high end pick. You need other factors that distinguish the prospect.

This isn't to say Leonard doesn't have other factors or that Leonard is a bad pick. But the folks who are questioning "compete level" being a major selling point have a legitimate point themselves.

Compete level combined with skill is like the holy grail. Can't tell you how many drafts I've watched with high skilled junior point scorers get drafted that shrivel as they work into the pro game.

I just love how GMBM was the first guy to not congratulate the Knights, tf was with all that

#winning.

 

[twabby]

I think they should attempt to trade up for Gulyayev. I’ve (proudly) watched zero of his games but he’ll be a very good player I think.

 

[Silky mitts]

I don't think he's a low ceiling player, either. But I do think there's legitimate question marks about how likely he achieves his potential is, given how difficult it is to project players from the USHL/NTDP, and how talented his linemates were.

You’ve got to trust the scouts, but of the 3 of them he may be less of a projection, like Smith and Perrault wouldn’t have as much space in the pros by a more dramatic amount than Leonard.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Probably partly true, but I also hate safe picks. Like I said earlier, I wanna go yard at every opportunity and I'm not sure Leonard qualifies, even if he has a long middle six career.

Oh I agree but I also can’t blame mgmt because Leonard fits what they cover IMO.

I think they should attempt to trade up for Gulyayev

Agreed. Very much agreed. Dude could be a stud.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Nothing I said was a straw man. I was illustrating a point about how compete level isn't everything. Nobody is upset that he has a good compete level. The strawman is how you're presenting their argument. The argument is that when one of the most frequently cited attributes about a player in a scouting report is their compete level, that raises a concern that the rest of their skillset isn't superlative. If you approach the argument their making with the intention to bridge an understanding of their point of view, rather than an axe to grind in an attempt to score some mental dunk against "the fancy stat crowd" - it's not hard to understand the perspective being put forth.

Hell, @RedRocking just backed us into another way to view this conversation. Would you have been upset with a Michkov pick because of his "low compete level?"

Lol at you, of all people talking about bridging a understanding.

It's a nonsense concern. It's finding an axe to grind about a guy universally rated in the top 10.

I'd have been happy to draft Michkov, because I think the whole picture is important - fancy stats, skill set evaluation, and character/mental attributes.

 

[Langway]

 

[pman25]

Musty is pretty intriguing. Thought Minnesota could have done better than Stramel….

Don’t like Perreault to NYR!

 

[RedRocking]

You’ve got to trust the scouts, but of the 3 of them he may be less of a projection, like Smith and Perrault wouldn’t have as much space in the pros by a more dramatic amount than Leonard.

I’m sorry I don’t have the source (just read too many scouting reports and numbers the past week) - but that line had big drop off w/out Leonard. He actually was the glue according to multiple pieces I read.

 

[usiel]

Musty is pretty intriguing. Thought Minnesota could have done better than Stramel….

Don’t like Perreault to NYR!

Hope for the best but Stramel seems like 3/4th liner.

 

[usiel]

I hate that the Rangers gtt Perreault. But hope for the best those here hold me to account my gut he'll be a good NHLer at some point.

 

[ChaosLord]

Is Alex Semin an example of a "high skill, low compete level" kind of player? I always felt he was a guy who never realized his full potential, because the desire was not quite there.

 

[Kalopsia]

Probably partly true, but I also hate safe picks. Like I said earlier, I wanna go yard at every opportunity and I'm not sure Leonard qualifies, even if he has a long middle six career.

I feel like it's a very common thing that when prospects get talked up for their compete, or their physicality, or their two-way game, people take that as a code word for low upside. It's been posted already in this thread, but Pronman ranked him as the 8th highest upside in the draft, with Danielson as the only higher upside guy who was still on the board at the Caps pick. There's a lot more to Leonard than compete.

 

[twabby]

I also find it odd that we should trust the scouts. Who, since MacLellan got here, has been a home run pick? Do they deserve to be trusted over my Excel sheets? Hard to make that case!

Again the pick isn’t terrible. It might be good. But appealing to Caps brass as to why it’s a good pick is a rubbish (as the Brits say) argument.

 

[pman25]

I forget, what is it that people dislike about Kuznetsov and Mantha?

Kuznetsov does too much coke and Mantha doesn’t do enough

 

[Brian23]

I forget, what is it that people dislike about Kuznetsov and Mantha?

Kuzya won them a cup and people hate Mantha because they expect him to be Wilson cause he's big.

 

[HTFN]

I also find it odd that we should trust the scouts. Who, since MacLellan got here, has been a home run pick? Do they deserve to be trusted over my Excel sheets? Hard to make that case!

Again the pick isn’t terrible. It might be good. But appealing to Caps brass as to why it’s a good pick is a rubbish (as the Brits say) argument.

wooof. Let's focus a little more on the players you were convinced were a mistake that ended up being... pretty good.

Then you can play arbiter genius of the roster's construction

 

[Langway]

Fantastic value for Colorado and a great fit given existing positional needs.

 

[koalabear9301]

Compete level wins cups and that's what I want. I don't care about fancy scoring and regular season stats anymore. I want more SC in my lifetime. No more Manthas in the Caps organization please.

this isn't a zero-sum game where any player with star scoring ability suddenly has zero compete level. Shoot, Kuznetsov is the poster child for "zero compete level" and he's arguably the biggest reason why we won in 2018 lol.

Edit: woof, I'm way late on this others already said what im saying here. Ignore lol

 

[The Instigator]

Kuzya won them a cup and people hate Mantha because they expect him to be Wilson cause he's big.

I expected much less from Mantha and I'm still disappointed.

 

[g00n]

Leafs on the clock. HF should crash in aboot 5-10 min

 

[pman25]

I also find it odd that we should trust the scouts. Who, since MacLellan got here, has been a home run pick? Do they deserve to be trusted over my Excel sheets? Hard to make that case!

Again the pick isn’t terrible. It might be good. But appealing to Caps brass as to why it’s a good pick is a rubbish (as the Brits say) argument.

Gotta find the NHLe rankings for each draft at the time and see who we should have picked. Going back to 2014, GMBMs first draft. Or even further since Mahoney has been around forever

 

[HTFN]

Kuzya won them a cup and people hate Mantha because they expect him to be Wilson cause he's big.

Seriously, anyone who still maintained the idea that Mantha would just become a physical presence is a f***ing idiot, it's never been him and it's never going to be, the question has always been how to optimize who he is and that's been very lacking from this version of the Capitals coaching staff.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Avs with a steal…

 

[RedRocking]

Crazy that the Avs were able to flip Newhook for that. What are the Habs doing

 

[Langway]

Toronto takes the first player not in my top 40. Definitely a late riser. Could be a good one. Versatile at least.