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GDT: - 2023 Caps NHL Draft Thread | Page 72 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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GDT: 2023 Caps NHL Draft Thread

Brian23 said:
It bothers me more cause it feels more of the same. "multi-tool" guys who aren't great at anything. Always an assumed safe floor. It reminds me of GMGM guarding his nuts and never taking a swing.
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I don't fully disagree but remember: Wilson was that guy not long ago, coming off one sweet playoff run and not a ton else outside of raw tools.

They took that swing and it fully paid off, and I'm not saying it will work twice just on methodology but if BPA to this squad means bringing in a Wilson/Oshie analog to fit some gaps that will inevitably be showing in the coming years that's not the worst move in the world.

If they're competitive relatively soon draft picks don't matter, and if they still suck they'll probably just swing on skill next time. Hey, Suzdalev is no slouch as far as we can tell so there's something there, and realistically as far as we can tell from metrics the Capitals got the play driver of the US's best developing line.

They've staggered this about as well as they can if that's what their list says and Michkov is gone, which he obviously was.
 
Hivemind said:
Please try responding to what I wrote instead of taking some random swing in the dark at a tangential point. The point being discussed is that "compete level" being the selling point, rather than their skill sets being the selling point, is potentially a red flag. It's not that compete level is bad or that compete level isn't important, or that it's a "binary trait" (whatever that means).
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What’s been the biggest knock on MM’s game from scouts? Low compete level.
 
IafrateOvie34 said:
Compete level wins cups and that's what I want. I don't care about fancy scoring and regular season stats anymore. I want more SC in my lifetime. No more Manthas in the Caps organization
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They won because Kuznetsov had the best 24 games of his life, DSP had the best 24 games of his life, Lars Eller had the best 24 games of his life, etc.

Honestly when you think back on it there’s no real reason it happened other than good fortune! Those guys aren’t exactly the hardest workers and dedicated to their craft. They got perfectly timed hot streaks from some really inconsistent characters!
 
HTFN said:
I don't fully disagree but remember: Wilson was that guy not long ago, coming off one sweet playoff run and not a ton else outside of raw tools.

They took that swing and it fully paid off, and I'm not saying it will work twice just on methodology but if BPA to this squad means bringing in a Wilson/Oshie analog to fit some gaps that will inevitably be showing in the coming years that's not the worst move in the world.

If they're competitive relatively soon draft picks don't matter, and if they still suck they'll probably just swing on skill next time. Hey, Suzdalev is no slouch as far as we can tell so there's something there, and realistically as far as we can tell from metrics the Capitals got the play driver of the US's best developing line.
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But is that still not apples to oranges? Wilson was aa physical force. That was his selling point. He was not a guy who'smaim selling point was compete level, it was that he was a giant with physical attributes that are rare in the NHL while being a hard nose guy.
 
Hivemind said:
Please try responding to what I wrote instead of taking some random swing in the dark at a tangential point. The point being discussed is that "compete level" being the selling point, rather than their skill sets being the selling point, is potentially a red flag. It's not that compete level is bad or that compete level isn't important, or that it's a "binary trait" (whatever that means).
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When you create a straw man, be prepared for tangential responses. His skill sets ARE his selling point. His "compete level" is not his main selling point, it's merely part of the whole package.

That people are concerned about a prospect's compete level being praised is insanity. We've seen this season how important it is.
 
twabby said:
They won because Kuznetsov had the best 24 games of his life, DSP had the best 24 games of his life, Lars Eller had the best 24 games of his life, etc.

Honestly when you think back on it there’s no real reason it happened other than good fortune! Those guys aren’t exactly the hardest workers and dedicated to their craft.
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This should be an amazing lesson for you on how hockey works beyond rate stats, but if that didn't prove it to you nothing will.
 
twabby said:
They won because Kuznetsov had the best 24 games of his life, DSP had the best 24 games of his life, Lars Eller had the best 24 games of his life, etc.

Honestly when you think back on it there’s no real reason it happened other than good fortune! Those guys aren’t exactly the hardest workers and dedicated to their craft.
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I know all that I watched every minute of that season and everyone was dialed in team wise after facing another first round exit.
 
Hivemind said:
I don't think he's a low ceiling player, either. But I do think there's legitimate question marks about how likely he achieves his potential is, given how difficult it is to project players from the USHL/NTDP, and how talented his linemates were.
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What made his teammates successful? Was it Leonard or their own skill sets?
 
Hivemind said:
Yet everyone here (including many of the individuals now pumping the value of compete level) was openly wishing for the Capitals to draft MM.
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Oh, definitely I was too. But was responding to the idea that high compete level is a given in the top 10. I don’t think that’s case, esp w MM.
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz said:
When you create a straw man, be prepared for tangential responses. His skill sets ARE his selling point. His "compete level" is not his main selling point, it's merely part of the whole package.

That people are concerned about a prospect's compete level being praised is insanity. We've seen this season how important it is.
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Think Tkachuk driving the Panthers to the SCF.
 
Brian23 said:
The other thing not talked about, the selling point is his compete and gumption while being a big boy on a dominant line playing against kids. That's another thing that's worry me. I'd wanna hear about he physically dominated or just dazzled them with skills.
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:banghead:

Okay, then listen when every detailed scouting report says shit like that. Great in transition, great shot, already plays a pro game, strong skater with great first steps, great finish/deflection game, high motor on D, offensive vision and awareness to play with elite players, and so on.

There's TONS of great, HoF-level players who were touted for their motors on draft day.

This guy's ceiling could be 30+ and elite versatility, contributing big in all phases. What a bummer that would be. And we'll have a chance to have him during his best and cheapest years. Woe is us.

IMO, Eller is his floor. And if he's a character guy, he's an Oshie or JW comp as well, maybe Pavelski. What a disaster! We're going to need players that can elevate a line and ooze chemistry over the next few years.
 
ClevelandCapsfan said:
What made his teammates successful? Was it Leonard or their own skill sets?
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I mean, one would hope 3 NHL players on a line would dominate mostly non-NHL level talent. I'd hope even a Hagelin - Modern day Eller - NAK would run kids, doesn't mean they're cornerstone pieces.

ClevelandCapsfan said:
Think Tkachuk driving the Panthers to the SCF.
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Bobrovsky "Am I a joke too you?"
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz said:
When you create a straw man, be prepared for tangential responses. His skill sets ARE his selling point. His "compete level" is not his main selling point, it's merely part of the whole package.

That people are concerned about a prospect's compete level being praised is insanity. We've seen this season how important it is.
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Nothing I said was a straw man. I was illustrating a point about how compete level isn't everything. Nobody is upset that he has a good compete level. The strawman is how you're presenting their argument. The argument is that when one of the most frequently cited attributes about a player in a scouting report is their compete level, that raises a concern that the rest of their skillset isn't superlative. If you approach the argument their making with the intention to bridge an understanding of their point of view, rather than an axe to grind in an attempt to score some mental dunk against "the fancy stat crowd" - it's not hard to understand the perspective being put forth.

Hell, @RedRocking just backed us into another way to view this conversation. Would you have been upset with a Michkov pick because of his "low compete level?"
 
max21 said:
I just love how GMBM was the first guy to not congratulate the Knights, tf was with all that
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1688003606797.jpeg
 
SecretaryofDefense5 said:
I think it’s obvious some of us are more bitter Michkov went to Philly. Let us sulk.
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Probably partly true, but I also hate safe picks. Like I said earlier, I wanna go yard at every opportunity and I'm not sure Leonard qualifies, even if he has a long middle six career.
 
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