Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[AllAboutAvs]

Kuznetsov was supposedly the other guy they looked at, but because he’d been more expensive they shifted to RyJo.


I mean Nuke obviously would’ve helped. But it wouldn’t have changed much in the grand scheme of things. Even if we beat Seattle we weren’t beating Dallas, Nuke or no Nuke.

I don't agree on Dallas especially with Oettinger playing the way he did.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yes the Avs had a HUGE deadline the year they won the Cup.

Unless of course we're not reinforcing the 'Avs need to go all in' narrative, then Manson sucks.

So apparently a guy that sucks, Arturri Lehkonen, and two 4th liners in Cogs and Sturm are what turned them into a power house that dominated everyone to win the Cup, almost going 16-2.

Or maybe that team was a power house anyway that could have won in prior years with lesser deadlines, but didn't because the core hadn't learned what it took mentally to win yet.

 

[Valushkin]

Yes the Avs had a HUGE deadline the year they won the Cup.

Unless of course we're not reinforcing the 'Avs need to go all in' narrative, then Manson sucks.

So apparently a guy that sucks, Arturri Lehkonen, and two 4th liners in Cogs and Sturm are what turned them into a power house that dominated everyone to win the Cup, almost going 16-2.

Or maybe that team was a power house anyway that could have won in prior years with lesser deadlines, but didn't because the core hadn't learned what it took mentally to win yet.

And I think people sometimes forget that they’ve been able to keep all those players they traded for at that deadline who helped them win the cup except for Sturm.

 

[Foppa2118]

Again, I’ll bring up the fact that Avs won the division with bunch of AHL players replacing injured players throughout the season, and they almost beat the Kraken in the playoffs without any depth scoring. They gonna have more depth next season by default because I don’t think Nuke is gonna do what he did again in the playoffs

I truly don't understand how anyone thinks the Avs could become a wild card team, when they had a worse team on paper last year, that was decimated by injuries, and still won the division.

Barring season ending injuries to key players of course.

They were tied for 2nd in the West and 2 points out of 1st too.

That's not a glass half empty vs glass half full situation. That's pouring the glass out so you can say it's half empty.

 

[Valushkin]

I truly don't understand how anyone thinks the Avs could become a wild card team, when they had a worse team on paper last year, that was decimated by injuries, and still won the division.

Barring season ending injuries to key players of course.

That's not a glass half empty vs glass half full situation. That's pouring the glass out so you can say it's half empty.

Avs have enough to win. They have to stay healthy period. People bring up Vegas and how deep they were. They had freakin Amadio or Howden playing on their top 2 lines. Staying healthy and using the Stone LTIR is what helped them win the cup. They aren’t as deep as people think

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

And I think people sometimes forget that they’ve been able to keep all those players they traded for at that deadline who helped them win the cup except for Sturm.

Which has ultimately been the biggest mistake in all of this.


Keeping Manson was the single dumbest think CMac/Sakic has done in the last few years. It was a fine trade at the time, but signing an already rapidly declining, physical 30+ Dman that couldnt stay healthy to a 4 year contract was absolutely putrid decision making. The exact opposite of what they were doing up until that point. The Wood contract likely isn't any better as well. So now we have two anchors on the team again just as we had gotten rid of our last significant anchor in EJ.


That contract cost us our 2C and has essentially lead us to where we are right now, which is a mess.

 

[Foppa2118]

I see a lot of people hanging hopes on upgrading at the TDL, and I'm over it. Historically this team hates the deadline so let's not put our hope in that. Honestly they probably do better with waiver pick ups than they do at the deadline

Is it really hanging hopes though, when all the talk about potential deadline additions is about depth players? Not key players like top sixers and top 4 D.

Hanging hopes on the TDL would suggest they have a bad roster that needs major improvements. Objectively this is not a "bad" roster even though it sounds that way on HFAvs sometimes. They have all the major spots filled and they have some of the best players in the world.

Barring season ending injuries to players that need to be replaced, the expectation is at most they'd trade for a middle sixer, and maybe a 4C, and a 5/6D. That's the Avs usual deadline.

 

[Valushkin]

Which has ultimately been the biggest mistake in all of this.


Keeping Manson was the single dumbest think CMac/Sakic has done in the last few years. It was a fine trade at the time, but signing an already rapidly declining, physical 30+ Dman that couldnt stay healthy to a 4 year contract was absolutely putrid decision making. The exact opposite of what they were doing up until that point. The Wood contract likely isn't any better as well. So now we have two anchors on the team again just as we had gotten rid of our last significant anchor in EJ.


That contract cost us our 2C and has essentially lead us to where we are right now, which is a mess.

I mean the way Manson played in the cup run I don’t blame them for resigning him. He brought something they didn’t have on that d core. Big physical presence, and he was a beast in those playoffs. They couldn’t have known he would have injury issues the following year

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I mean the way Manson played in the cup run I don’t blame them resigning him. He brought something they didn’t have on that d core. Big physical presence, and he was a beast in those playoffs. They couldn’t have known he would have injury issues the following year

I certainly do. They're supposed to be a Top tier management team. They made the biggest mistake the worst management groups in the league make.

The injury issues didn't just start this year. He missed a month with the Ducks last year just before we traded for him. He missed 2/3s of the year in 2021, and missed over a month back in 2020.

He played just 140/208 possible games over the last 3 years before this year. On top of the pretty rapid regression he had shown in the games he did play.


Anybody could see the pattern and knew what was coming. But the Avs gave him the contract anyways and to the surprise of nobody a year later we have a #5 Dman that can't stay healthy making $4.5M for 3 more years. An anchor of a contract that was pretty easy to see coming.


They should have thanked him for helping us win a cup(Which he didn't really do much in the first place, but anyway) and parted ways. Let somebody else sign him to that awful retirement deal.

 

[The Moops]

Is it really hanging hopes though, when all the talk about potential deadline additions is about depth players? Not key players like top sixers and top 4 D.

Hanging hopes on the TDL would suggest they have a bad roster that needs major improvements. Objectively this is not a "bad" roster even though it sounds that way on HFAvs sometimes. They have all the major spots filled and they have some of the best players in the world.

Barring season ending injuries to players that need to be replaced, the expectation is at most they'd trade for a middle sixer, and maybe a 4C, and a 5/6D. That's the Avs usual deadline.

Nah, the usual deadline is a 13th forward and a 7th D. Neither of which should be playing meaningful minutes on a contender. But they'll pencil into real minutes because apparently making trades at any point before the day of the deadline is against all natural rules.

 

[Foppa2118]

All of the talk about how bad Manson supposedly is now, is based on him playing most of last year with a high ankle sprain that's notoriously easy to re-injure.

And you know it was bad when a guy like Josh Manson couldn't even play in the playoffs because of it.

If you acknowledge he played well and played a part in them winning the Cup, then you shouldn't think he went from that to dog shit in just a few months. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Valushkin]

I certainly do. They're supposed to be a Top tier management team. They made the biggest mistake the worst management groups in the league make.

The injury issues didn't just start this year. He missed a month with the Ducks last year just before we traded for him. He missed 2/3s of the year in 2021, and missed over a month back in 2020.

He played just 140/208 possible games over the last 3 years before this year. On top of the pretty rapid regression he had shown in the games he did play.


Anybody with a brain quite frankly could see the pattern and knew what was coming. But the Avs gave him the contract anyways and to the surprise of nobody a year later we have a #5 Dman that can't stay healthy making $4.5M for 3 more years. An anchor of a contract that was pretty easy to see coming.


They should have thanked him for helping us win a cup(Which he didn't really do much in the first place, but anyway) and parted ways. Let somebody else sign him to that awful retirement deal.

I don’t completely disagree as far as maybe not keeping Manson. Maybe they could have used that money for a 2C, but then they would have a top 4 of smaller players like Girard and Byram. I’m not sure I would feel comfortable with having smaller top 4 D going up against teams like Vegas or Dallas

 

[Avsboy]

The biggest mistake was letting EJ go. They even have room for him in cap space

 

[Foppa2118]

Nah, the usual deadline is a 13th forward and a 7th D. Neither of which should be playing meaningful minutes on a contender. But they'll pencil into real minutes because apparently making trades at any point before the day of the deadline is against all natural rules.

That's not true though. They always trade for at least one or two players that will be on the roster, not just healthy scratches like 13th forwards and 7D.

Boedker, Matthias, Brassard, Graves, Andrighetto, Nemestnikov, Nemeth, Soderberg.

Even last year with the lack of trades everyone was critical of, Eller was brought in for 3C, and Malgin was a 3rd line wing. They also traded for Malgin in December and Nieto in January by the way.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I don’t completely disagree as far as maybe not keeping Manson. Maybe they could have used that money for a 2C, but then they would have a top 4 of smaller players like Girard and Byram. I’m not sure I would feel comfortable with having smaller top 4 D going up against teams like Vegas or Dallas

They would be fine. Byram isn't small either, he's likely flirting with 6'2 at this point, was 6'1 when he was drafted.



If they felt like it was an issue, they could have just paid to get another "physical" Dman at the trade deadline. Could have had Luke Schen this last deadline for a 3rd for example, arguably a better player then Manson at this point quite frankly. This year, you've got the like of Lyubushkin, Cole, DeMelo, Zadorov, Tanev, Dumba, all of which could easily fill the "Manson role" if they hadn't signed him.


I would much rather be spending assets for depth pieces like that at the trade deadline then doing nothing and continuing to leave one of the most important positions on the team(2C) either completely vacant like last year, or with a huge question mark like RyJo this year.

 

[The Moops]

That's not true though. They always trade for at least one or two players that will be on the roster, not just healthy scratches like 13th forwards and 7D.

Boedker, Matthias, Brassard, Graves, Andrighetto, Nemestnikov, Nemeth, Soderberg.

Even last year with the lack of trades everyone was critical of, Eller was brought in for 3C, and Malgin was a 3rd line wing. They also traded for Malgin in December and Nieto in January by the way.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I was making rentals. Eller was dogshit at 3C, let alone 2C in the playoffs. Should never have been more than a bottom line forward. Paid a 2nd for 2 goals lmao. Rare L from the pro scouts on that one. Not to mention Soda and Nemeth.

 

[lionsDen]

View attachment 737704

Shouldn’t he be in a Carolina jersey

 

[Sea Eagles]

After getting his name carved into Lord Stanley's Cup, and especially because of his crucial role in MacK's career year and Conn Smythe Trophy, we'll ALL want him to sign up for more.

PS- @Sea Eagles - Am doing this right?

Perfect !!! Drouin is going to destroy the league next season. He'll be more invested than anyone has seen in a very long time.

 

[Valushkin]

They would be fine. Byram isn't small either, he's likely flirting with 6'2 at this point, was 6'1 when he was drafted.



If they felt like it was an issue, they could have just paid to get another "physical" Dman at the trade deadline. Could have had Luke Schen this last deadline for a 3rd for example, arguably a better player then Manson at this point quite frankly. This year, you've got the like of Lyubushkin, Cole, DeMelo, Zadorov, Tanev, Dumba, all of which could easily fill the "Manson role" if they hadn't signed him.


I would much rather be spending assets for depth pieces like that at the trade deadline then doing nothing and continuing to leave one of the most important positions on the team(2C) either completely vacant like last year, or with a huge question mark like RyJo this year.

I rather have more depth on D than up front. You don’t want Luke Schen jumping up and playing on top 2 pairs if Girard or anyone else gets hurt. I rather give another chance to Manson next season and maybe he can stay healthy

 

[CobraAcesS]

I really don’t see too much difference between RyJo and Kuznetsov going into next season as far as what they could produce as the Avs 2C

This I agree with, PLD and Lindholm would have been hard to fit in long term. Actually like Ryjo's chances too.

I rather have depth on D then up front. You don’t want Luke Schen jumping up and playing on top 2 pairs if Girard or anyone else gets hurt. I rather give another chance to Manson next season and maybe he can stay healthy

We'll know where we stand with Manson 5 games in. If he looks like he did in the playoffs he's done.

 

[Valushkin]

We'll know where we stand with Manson 5 games in. If he looks like he did in the playoffs he's done.

He was injured, that’s why he looked bad in the playoffs. If he’s healthy, he should be better. We’ll see I guess

 

[nammerus]

This I agree with, PLD and Lindholm would have been hard to fit in long term. Actually like Ryjo's chances too.



We'll know where we stand with Manson 5 games in. If he looks like he did in the playoffs he's done.

Who cares. They should be optimizing the team for the present. So instead of trading for a player that would 100% fill the 2C spot today, they went dumpster diving for someone that hasn’t played at the 2C level for 3 of the last 4 years, who also happens to have major motivational issues, and is coming off a major injury.

And people say he was free. That’s patently wrong. He’s taking up 4 mill of cap space x 2 years. Space that could be used for an actual solution. And to make it worse, if he fails this year, it further hamstrings the team next year as well.

 

[Gruyeriev]

Wasn’t Nuke having problems last year with the scar tissue from his surgery rubbing in his skate? Are we to believe this now or was this a cover story for other issues? To me, a healthy Nuke goes a long way in our top 6. He was in and out of the lineup constantly last year if I remember correctly.

I’m excited for the potential physicality of the third line this year, even if it means more stupid penalties. With that being said that 3rd line wing spot could make or break us. We likely need a much better PK to be successful.

 

[Gruyeriev]

Perfect !!! Drouin is going to destroy the league next season. He'll be more invested than anyone has seen in a very long time.

Man I hope you are right but Drouin on a line with Mack really is putting all the pressure on Lehks or Nuke to do all the Defensive work. I’d say even more so than the original 9296 line with Landeskog.(meaning Mikko is not as bad as Drouin defensively.)

 

[niwotsblessing]

All of the talk about how bad Manson supposedly is now, is based on him playing most of last year with a high ankle sprain that's notoriously easy to re-injure.

And you know it was bad when a guy like Josh Manson couldn't even play in the playoffs because of it.

If you acknowledge he played well and played a part in them winning the Cup, then you shouldn't think he went from that to dog shit in just a few months. That doesn't make any sense.

Very little here makes any sense.