GDT: 2023-24 season game 64 LA Kings vs New York Islanders @7:30pm 3/11/24

[GoldenBearHockey]

You have a much better eye than me if you can fairly judge a player off 6 shifts over 2 periods of play and two of those are neutral zone starts at the beginning of periods...

He had 1 ok shift out of those 6, and on at least 3 of them, he failed to get the puck deep when absolutely needed to and turned it over....

I don't agree with only 6 shifts, if you read, I thought he was gonna put him back out in the 3rd, but he didn't, but Turcotte was not good last night

 

[BigKing]

You have a much better eye than me if you can fairly judge a player off 6 shifts over 2 periods of play and two of those are neutral zone starts at the beginning of periods...

Well, if rushes die on your stick more than once in six shifts, you probably weren't playing too well.

I don't like icing him out though. If he is going to be a problem on the 1st line, shuffle him down v. benching him: especially when you are only running 11 forwards to begin with.

I don't need Blake Lizotte getting time at 1st line wing.

Speaking of Lizotte, I'm glad I wasn't the one hit in the mouth with a puck but, holy shit, he just leisurely skated off the ice right in the middle of the Islanders controlling the puck in the Kings zone.

 

[Omni Owl]

Turcotte should have at least had the chance to redeem himself with a few shifts in the 3rd. If he's unsatisfactory then fine, he can sit for the rest of the game.

 

[bland]

I don't like the Turcotte minutes either but he sucked last night when he was on the ice.

There is a pattern developing here of young players immediately seeing their ice time limited after unforced turnovers between the blueline and the top of the circles. Unfortunately those turnovers have been a staple of Kaliyev's game.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if that is a point of emphasis with this coaching staff. I don't have a problem with that either. If a player like Kaliyev has been given a set of specific instructions and continuously fails them, yeah, you can't reward him. I HOPE that is the case, as leaving a kid in the lurch would be irresponsible. Either way, we would never know unless somebody says something.

 

[Sol]

It’s such stupid business to bust the balls of a young player so consistently and expect them to have confidence to push forward.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's almost as if scorers can't gain any puck confidence when their shifts are heavily scrutinized and 10 minutes apart

Then they watch PLD go out and wet fart the puck into an oddman break in our own zone

It's quickly becoming a yealry self fulfilling prophecy at this point regarding the younger players.

The staff refuses to play them, even in games like this, then the veterans are exhausted come playoff time.
Another 1st round loss leads to the exit interviews where the staff claims the younger players weren't ready to play, and the team lacks depth. Rinse, repeat for another season.

yep, i copy and paste it like ten tiems a season, but it's the usual go-round

can't play the kids, its early in the season and they're not ready, have to set the tone

can't play the kids, we're getting buried right now, need the vets to steady the ship before we let them loose

cant play the kids, too many injuries, they'll be exposed higher in the lineup

can't play the kids, these games are meaningful now, we need every point

can't play the kids, literally every point counts, these are essentially playoff games

can't play the kids, it's the playoffs and they've barely got any games, so how can we trust them? They're not ready.

 

[kingsfan28]

There is a pattern developing here of young players immediately seeing their ice time limited after unforced turnovers between the blueline and the top of the circles. Unfortunately those turnovers have been a staple of Kaliyev's game.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if that is a point of emphasis with this coaching staff. I don't have a problem with that either. If a player like Kaliyev has been given a set of specific instructions and continuously fails them, yeah, you can't reward him. I HOPE that is the case, as leaving a kid in the lurch would be irresponsible. Either way, we would never know unless somebody says something.

It was kinda weird how when Lizzo got hurt and missed a good chunk of the period, we saw Lewis and someone else rotate on the top line. Turc never saw a shift in the 3rd. Four shifts in the 1st, 2 shifts in the 2nd, and that was it. Hillers an odd dude when it comes to stuff like this and how he explain why guys don't go back in.

 

[tigermask48]

It was kinda weird how when Lizzo got hurt and missed a good chunk of the period, we saw Lewis and someone else rotate on the top line. Turc never saw a shift in the 3rd. Four shifts in the 1st, 2 shifts in the 2nd, and that was it. Hillers an odd dude when it comes to stuff like this and how he explain why guys don't go back in.

Is this Hiller or isn't DJ Smith handling the 5v5 lines during games? Thought that was mentioned in the thread when he was hired.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

The Turcotte benching is mad weird. And Hiller has (at least) twice now given the same weird explanation for it.... "It wouldn't be fair to him as a young player to put him out there again after he hadn't played in so long" - Like what is that Hiller??? What does that MEAN??? You're the reason he hasn't played in so long.

It's just weird. I may have missed something but I didn't notice any massive mistakes last night on Turcotte's part that really warranted being benched. No bad penalty. No bad turnover / missed assignment that led to a goal against. His play wasn't amazing but was it seriously bench-worthy?? Seems overly harsh.

Sometimes players get better as the game goes on and make an impact in the 2nd or 3rd period. Turcotte isn't given that opportunity for some reason. If he's not amazing right out of the gate its "hey thanks for trying kid but we've seen enough. Sit the rest of this one out". Must do wonders for a young player's confidence smh.

 

[kingsfan28]

Is this Hiller or isn't DJ Smith handling the 5v5 lines during games? Thought that was mentioned in the thread when he was hired.

Not sure, but I can't see Smith making the call on sitting him. I didn't see the first half of the game, so I can't really say what he did/didn't do to get benched. Maybe he said something in the postgame presser.

 

[bland]

The Turcotte benching is mad weird. And Hiller has (at least) twice now given the same weird explanation for it.... "It wouldn't be fair to him as a young player to put him out there again after he hadn't played in so long" - Like what is that Hiller??? What does that MEAN??? You're the reason he hasn't played in so long.

It's just weird. I may have missed something but I didn't notice any massive mistakes last night on Turcotte's part that really warranted being benched. No bad penalty. No bad turnover / missed assignment that led to a goal against. His play wasn't amazing but was it seriously bench-worthy?? Seems overly harsh.

Sometimes players get better as the game goes on and make an impact in the 2nd or 3rd period. Turcotte isn't given that opportunity for some reason. If he's not amazing right out of the gate its "hey thanks for trying kid but we've seen enough. Sit the rest of this one out". Must do wonders for a young player's confidence smh.

Its most likely that these kids aren't being sat because they aren't contributing offensively but because they are making mistskes that they have been specifically asked to address.

Hiller's chief responsibility was most likely to get the team back on track, not to develop kids.

Coaches and players want to win. By and large its managements responsibility to develop the prospects. And by now every single one of us knows that this management team has development as a side dish compared to getting into the playoffs. Is it the wrong choice? Absolutely, but its no mystery as to why they are doing what they are doing.

 

[Ghetty Green]

There is a pattern developing here of young players immediately seeing their ice time limited after unforced turnovers between the blueline and the top of the circles.

Moore is the worst culprit. He's from Thousand Oaks though...

 

[tigermask48]

This is from the DJ Smith thread, credit to dman3474 for the link and the quote from the article from June of 2023 when he was still with the Sens.

How D.J. Smith plans on changing his coaching tactics: ‘I will coach them differently’

When pressed to expand on how he might change his approach behind the bench, Smith pointed specifically to sloppy mistakes and careless turnovers that need to be eradicated. And he suggested the program has reached the point where he should be able to bench players who are not playing up to the level that is commensurate with a playoff calibre team.

“The biggest thing is details. It has to be tightened up. The accountability towards small details becomes tighter and tighter as you want to get better. As the players get better, the mistakes have to be less and less. They know better. And the accountability has to be higher,” Smith says. “And it’s not just me, they are going hold themselves to a higher standard. They know where they want to go. Just letting guys play throughout it is not something you have with a team that expects to win. If you’re not going, someone else has to take your spot.”

If that is how he's handling the Kings, then Turcotte getting benched does make sense with his logic (which I disagree with). It would make sense that a small mistake from Turc or AK is going to lead to bigger consequences than PLD, Kopi, etc.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Turc needs to produce to take advantage of his opportunity. But his leash is shorter compared to a Clarke or even Spence because of the logjam in front of him.

If the decision makers don’t trust you and the points aren’t there, then your ice time gets cut when the vets get healthy. The Kings play the kids when forced to. But it’s not option number one ever since Doughty griped about sucking.

 

[unicornpig]

young players are gonna make mistakes.... theyre gonna build animosity when they see players like PLD making the same mistakes with no reprecussions and making 9million.....

 

[Herby]

Well, if rushes die on your stick more than once in six shifts, you probably weren't playing too well.

I don't like icing him out though. If he is going to be a problem on the 1st line, shuffle him down v. benching him: especially when you are only running 11 forwards to begin with.

I don't need Blake Lizotte getting time at 1st line wing.

Speaking of Lizotte, I'm glad I wasn't the one hit in the mouth with a puck but, holy shit, he just leisurely skated off the ice right in the middle of the Islanders controlling the puck in the Kings zone.

It’s just so odd with the yo-yo-ing up and down the lineup.

He comes up and looks good in a bottom line role, and then they inexplicably put him in a 1st line scoring role, Why? It would be like putting Englund on the PP if he had some strong games. Why not just let him play the role he's playing good at, instead of moving him up to a role where he is expected to do something he's probably never going to be able to do at the NHL level. And then when he struggles to score and makes a few errors, instead of moving him back down and giving him regular shifts in a spot in the lineup where he is capable of helping the team win, he instead is glued to the bench while older veterans play 17+ minutes, again why?

 

[Kurrilino]

Its most likely that these kids aren't being sat because they aren't contributing offensively but because they are making mistskes that they have been specifically asked to address.

Hiller's chief responsibility was most likely to get the team back on track, not to develop kids.

And what track would that be, with 35+ year old 1st line center and #1 defender?
What happens actually after Kopitar and Doughty if it's nobodies responsibility to develop kids?

I have the same question for the offense. Who is actually responsible for creating offense and why are those guys not benched?

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

So it’s ok for Fiala, Dubois, Englund, Doughty, to throw a couple pizzas up the middle and face no consequence it’s also ok for Kopitar to hold onto a puck or pass up a shot in the slot but not ok for a rookie to make a rookie mistake.

 

[BigKing]

Jim Hiller is trying to get that bag. He wants to win as many games as possible with no care about next season and beyond.

Argument can be made these guys will be gassed by the playoffs but, Jim's only concern is making the playoffs to begin with.

 

[bland]

And what track would that be, with 35+ year old 1st line center and #1 defender?
What happens actually after Kopitar and Doughty if it's nobodies responsibility to develop kids?

I have the same question for the offense. Who is actually responsible for creating offense and why are those guys not benched?

Pretty obvious answers. The team had flatlined, Hiller is what, 10-5-1 or something like that?

He got the veterans to perform. The injuries meant that a number of kids HAD to be dressed, but its obvious that they aren't trusted to play yet. Its a no-brainer that he would play JAD over Kaliyev given what they are trying to accomplish. JAD never actively hurt you the way Kaliyev does. Kaliyev's low effort forecheck and backcheck were key components in a goal against the other night. He doesn't have the track record of a veteran making those mistakes, and holding him accountable now might help him in the future. If he responds poorly to the challenge, well, that's on him. Not everybody makes it. We saw a player with an arguably better pedigree in Bjornfot get lost in the shuffle. Had they prioritized development, yes, of course they might have hit on more of their swings.

You can't blame Hiller for anything, he is getting results. And they are terrific results, even if the end goal is the longest of shots.

Its Blake's responsibility to comprise a roster, and he has chosen to chase something they cannot catch. We all KNOW this, but if you have a veteran heavy roster with misguided aspirations, that isn't on the coach to rectify. The path to nowhere started with Danault signing.

 

[GameNight]

Everyone familiar with the expression Skating on Thin Ice?

Like when you wait around all season to call-up a few rookies until around the All-Star break while your grip is slipping away on a playoff spot? Did they just forget? On top of that, a sorta new head coach who has to audition for his job like Clarke and Turcotte do. The boss said, it's all about wins and loses from here out.

Jim, you're not getting the golden parachute like we gave Todd unless you dig ME out of this mess too. To be frank, even if you manage to dig all of us out, I'm still not sure because... well, you're not Todd.

 

[bouncesonly]

Jim Hiller is trying to get that bag. He wants to win as many games as possible with no care about next season and beyond.

Argument can be made these guys will be gassed by the playoffs but, Jim's only concern is making the playoffs to begin with.

lol, that should be his only goal. wtf is he doing as the interim coach planning for a future he has not been given.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Is it reasonable that Lizo (0g1a) and Lewis (2g3a) combine for 2g4a since Jan 1 (32 games)? most likely worst 4th line point production in the league (maybe in history)... and they arent even physical (probably at the low end as well) yet they each got some top line minutes in the last game. Seems they are considered big contributors on this team... Lewis is not even in the top PK fwd pair yet he is lauded for his PK expertise. Im just saying there are some other passengers here that arent getting any scrutiny and could easily be healthy scratches. If anything couldve been addressed at the deadline its the 4th line, but they are standing pat with this sad state of affairs - another big weakness heading into the post season.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Is it reasonable that Lizo (0g1a) and Lewis (2g3a) combine for 2g4a since Jan 1 (32 games)? most likely worst 4th line point production in the league (maybe in history)... and they arent even physical (probably at the low end as well) yet they each got some top line minutes in the last game. Seems they are considered big contributors on this team... Lewis is not even in the top PK fwd pair yet he is lauded for his PK expertise. Im just saying there are some other passengers here that arent getting any scrutiny and could easily be healthy scratches. If anything couldve been addressed at the deadline its the 4th line, but they are standing pat with this sad state of affairs - another big weakness heading into the post season.

All of what, Lewis's 35 seconds on the 1st line, And Lizott'es, what 2 shifts?

Man talk about reading way way way too much into things.....they were playing with 10 fowrards last night, you are going to see some interesting combo's at best.

 

[AbsentMojo]

All of what, Lewis's 35 seconds on the 1st line, And Lizott'es, what 2 shifts?

Man talk about reading way way way too much into things.....they were playing with 10 fowrards last night, you are going to see some interesting combo's at best.

OK fine. But they dont contribute and those are the last 2 guys I'd double shift on a top line. My point is their lack of points production.. if you're going to be an energy line and arent physical, then 6 points in 32 games between the 2 of them is unacceptable. Lewis gets a pass because of his cup pedigree and Lizotte is a room favorite based on his attitude which is great.. but those are pathetic numbers and its prob the worst 4th line in the league.