GDT: 2023-24 season game 35 LA Kings Detroit Red Wings @7:30pm 1/4/23

[Raccoon Jesus]

I would probably roll out

Byfield-Kopitar-Kaliyev
Moore-Danault-Fiala
Kempe-PLD-Laf
Grundstrom-LIzotte-Lewis

or maybe even flipflow Fiala and Kaliyev for a couple of shifts just to see since the first line is having disjointedness lately anyway. Might be best to keep Kopitar with two fleet footed skaters

 

[YAYSAY]

Not surprised all of a sudden the Kings put a top winger with PLD and he plays well. Grundstrom and Laffy...? Jesus.

The disrespect Laf gets is insane, for the past few games he's been great and for most of PLD's past few goals it usually starts off of something Laf did. Kempe helped a lot but even last night Laf still stood out as more of a line driver than PLD.

So many on here wanted him sent down in place of Fagemo when he was struggling even though the mantra for this board the past 4 seasons has been to play the kids and let them play through the rough patches which is exactly what's happened with Laf and now he's starting to produce consistently

 

[lumbergh]

Doughty has been so awful he must be injured. Hes so f***ing slow right now.

Nah. He's just barely there. Rewatch the first Red Wings goal last night and you can see the lack of effort and focus. He gets beaten by Olli Maatta of all people. The second goal he totally fails to box out, giving Rittich no chance to see the puck. At least the third goal was scored just after a penalty was killed, so hard to blame him for that.

It's not his speed. It's his willingness to engage mentally and physically on defense that's the problem right now. He looks LAZY, not slow.

 

[King'sPawn]

The disrespect Laf gets is insane, for the past few games he's been great and for most of PLD's past few goals it usually starts off of something Laf did. Kempe helped a lot but even last night Laf still stood out as more of a line driver than PLD.

So many on here wanted him sent down in place of Fagemo when he was struggling even though the mantra for this board the past 4 seasons has been to play the kids and let them play through the rough patches which is exactly what's happened with Laf and now he's starting to produce consistently

Agreed. The vets also struggle and get time to re-orient themselves. A prospect shouldn't be demoted the moment they make some mistakes.

These are learning experiences.

 

[YP44]

PLD contract would scream that they haven't learned.

I do not like the PLD contract but in no way is it paying someone for past contributions. For me it is paying someone in hopes they will becomes a sum of their parts. PLD is a player with all the tools in the world, his contract is in hope of what he becomes not what he has done.

 

[Bandit]

I do not like the PLD contract but in no way is it paying someone for past contributions. For me it is paying someone in hopes they will becomes a sum of their parts. PLD is a player with all the tools in the world, his contract is in hope of what he becomes not what he has done.

Yeah PLD isn’t getting paid for past success, he’s getting paid for all his future failures.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I can only speak on me but the only reason I was thinking Laf should go down was to get into more scoring situations including PP time so he can work on his scoring touch and not top out early by learning a depth/grinding role that he already excels at. If you're not going to play him in the top six immediately, or on a scoring line (which, until recently, PLD's line wasn't), then let him ripen, its' not like he's been rotting in the AHL like the other kids.

And then you could give Fagemo or Turcotte a few games to get a taste as well so they aren't stone cold when they arrive (if ever).

Obviously don't do that now since the lineup has been jiggled but i don't feel like that's so offensive. We're not saying NEVER put kids/prospects in the AHL, just dont send them there by default then throw away the paperwork until they're waiver eligible.

 

[bland]

The disrespect Laf gets is insane, for the past few games he's been great and for most of PLD's past few goals it usually starts off of something Laf did. Kempe helped a lot but even last night Laf still stood out as more of a line driver than PLD.

So many on here wanted him sent down in place of Fagemo when he was struggling even though the mantra for this board the past 4 seasons has been to play the kids and let them play through the rough patches which is exactly what's happened with Laf and now he's starting to produce consistently

That's not it, at all.

You send Laferriere down not because he is struggling, you send him down to ADD aspects to his game that he won't have the chance to work on at the NHL level - namely both specialty teams and key late game situations.

Growth isn't linear. And while he certainly had a productive game last night, he HAS been chucking pucks at the crease and at his teammates, not taking that extra second to make certain they are accurate.

 

[King'sPawn]

I can only speak on me but the only reason I was thinking Laf should go down was to get into more scoring situations including PP time so he can work on his scoring touch and not top out early by learning a depth/grinding role that he already excels at. If you're not going to play him in the top six immediately, or on a scoring line (which, until recently, PLD's line wasn't), then let him ripen, its' not like he's been rotting in the AHL like the other kids.

And then you could give Fagemo or Turcotte a few games to get a taste as well so they aren't stone cold when they arrive (if ever).

Obviously don't do that now since the lineup has been jiggled but i don't feel like that's so offensive. We're not saying NEVER put kids/prospects in the AHL, just dont send them there by default then throw away the paperwork until they're waiver eligible.

With Laferriere, though, I honestly don't see him as more than a middle-six winger at best. And that's not a knock on him.

He's just not a major scorer. He's a very good utility player who, as he learns more from experience, to play in all situations. On the PK, on the PP.

The stuff I feel he needs to learn to become the player he can be comes from experience and repetition. Sending him to the AHL won't make him more of a scorer any more than it did for Byfield, or Kempe, or Kaliyev. It's just not a league to develop that skillset.

Keep in mind I'm not saying the AHL is worthless - just that it's not a good environment to develop Laferriere in ways he'd benefit.

 

[bland]

With Laferriere, though, I honestly don't see him as more than a middle-six winger at best. And that's not a knock on him.

He's just not a major scorer. He's a very good utility player who, as he learns more from experience, to play in all situations. On the PK, on the PP.

The stuff I feel he needs to learn to become the player he can be comes from experience and repetition. Sending him to the AHL won't make him more of a scorer any more than it did for Byfield, or Kempe, or Kaliyev. It's just not a league to develop that skillset.

Keep in mind I'm not saying the AHL is worthless - just that it's not a good environment to develop Laferriere in ways he'd benefit.

See, I disagree. I see a potential big time impact player in all situations - a Justin Williams type of player (without expecting the epic intangibles). I hadn't rated him anywhere near as high going into the year because I thought I was watching an offensive player who was a longshot to produce enough to justify the kind of role he needed to play. I didn't see this motor and drive in his game in college.

I don't see any urgency in keeping him in this lineup this year, unlike say the progression that MUST happen in Kaliyev and say Spence. Spence is meeting expectations, Kaliyev is struggling. The team needs those slots filled. Laferriere is still in the house-money spot where his contributions are unexpected. He could be sent down without damage to the team or his career so that a higher impact game can be brought out of him - especially once Arvidsson is back. We do NOT need him playing a 4th line chip and chase role, his ceiling is higher.

 

[jgs]

Ok now that the PLD trade is a failure, what is Blake's next team saving move?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Ok now that the PLD trade is a failure, what is Blake's next team saving move?

Spence Turcotte and a 1st for gibson and henrique

 

[King'sPawn]

See, I disagree. I see a potential big time impact player in all situations - a Justin Williams type of player (without expecting the epic intangibles). I hadn't rated him anywhere near as high going into the year because I thought I was watching an offensive player who was a longshot to produce enough to justify the kind of role he needed to play. I didn't see this motor and drive in his game in college.

I don't see any urgency in keeping him in this lineup this year, unlike say the progression that MUST happen in Kaliyev and say Spence. Spence is meeting expectations, Kaliyev is struggling. The team needs those slots filled. Laferriere is still in the house-money spot where his contributions are unexpected. He could be sent down without damage to the team or his career so that a higher impact game can be brought out of him - especially once Arvidsson is back. We do NOT need him playing a 4th line chip and chase role, his ceiling is higher.

I appreciate the response. Honest question - do you think the AHL has shown the ability to improve scoring ability and technique? Shot placement? Is there a player who otherwise lacked gamebreaking talent that the AHL gets out of them?

Because I just don't think it does. Players do get experience with more time and space to make plays, but Laferriere isn't constantly making bad plays - if he sees something, he tries it. If he can't decide on something, he smartly chucks it towards the net. He's not constantly getting outmuscled, either.

There are elements which can improve, of course. I just don't think the AHL is the answer.

Even on his teams, he was never a gamebreaker. His final year in the USHL was when he was 19, a little older than the rest of the competition; he led the second-highest scorer on his team by only 7 points. In NCAA, Coronato was the major cog in Harvard's scoring. Laferriere has always been the depth scorer who played in all situations, including the PK. And his Trevor Moore-like drive was always one of his strongest skills.

Maybe you're right. I just don't think Laferriere has struggled enough to warrant a demotion to the AHL, and I don't think the AHL will provide growth opportunities in areas where he would benefit from it.

Now, a player like Kaliyev could benefit from time in the AHL, as you mentioned, because he's struggling. He needs to learn how to buy himself some more time to get better shots off, while also improving consistency with board work. Unfortunately, he's waiver-exempt now. It would have been better if he could have played more time in a bigger role, see where he needed to improve, then go back down to the AHL to improve on his weak points. The Kings' hard-on for making every prospect a grinder before they can get comfortable integrating their own game once again rears its ugly head.

 

[Nasti]

Spence Turcotte and a 1st for gibson and henrique

Just kick me in the nuts now.

 

[kingsfan28]

On Arthur Kaliyev’s response to being healthy scratched on Tuesday
Responded well, responded really well and it started way before he put the equipment on tonight. In practice the other day, he played and he worked hard, he worked hard in the pregame skate the day that he didn’t play and then he came in and responded well, so it’s a real positive sign for us.

hopefully that scratched the itch

Was this AI generated?

 

[kingsfan28]

Spence Turcotte and a 1st for gibson and henrique

time to call a cab dude.

 

[bland]

I appreciate the response. Honest question - do you think the AHL has shown the ability to improve scoring ability and technique? Shot placement? Is there a player who otherwise lacked gamebreaking talent that the AHL gets out of them?

Because I just don't think it does. Players do get experience with more time and space to make plays, but Laferriere isn't constantly making bad plays - if he sees something, he tries it. If he can't decide on something, he smartly chucks it towards the net. He's not constantly getting outmuscled, either.

There are elements which can improve, of course. I just don't think the AHL is the answer.

Even on his teams, he was never a gamebreaker. His final year in the USHL was when he was 19, a little older than the rest of the competition; he led the second-highest scorer on his team by only 7 points. In NCAA, Coronato was the major cog in Harvard's scoring. Laferriere has always been the depth scorer who played in all situations, including the PK. And his Trevor Moore-like drive was always one of his strongest skills.

Maybe you're right. I just don't think Laferriere has struggled enough to warrant a demotion to the AHL, and I don't think the AHL will provide growth opportunities in areas where he would benefit from it.

Now, a player like Kaliyev could benefit from time in the AHL, as you mentioned, because he's struggling. He needs to learn how to buy himself some more time to get better shots off, while also improving consistency with board work. Unfortunately, he's waiver-exempt now. It would have been better if he could have played more time in a bigger role, see where he needed to improve, then go back down to the AHL to improve on his weak points. The Kings' hard-on for making every prospect a grinder before they can get comfortable integrating their own game once again rears its ugly head.

Personally, I think actual "skill" just isn't as important an element to success in hockey as approach and confidence. There has been this obsession with speed and hands of late, but it just hasn't translated into team success. Kucherov is probably the outlier in that argument, but you really don't need individual game breakers to win and I think that realistically its more of a detriment to have too many of that kind of player.

I wouldn't suggest sending a kid down to refine skills but to gain confidence in other areas of the game. It doesn't appear likely that Laferriere will be seeing and special teams shifts here in the near future. I would bet that the most likely scenario sees him sent down when Arvidsson is cleared, even if just for the inevitable cap crunch.

I don't want to see him on the 4th line come March.

 

[All The Kings Men]

game breakers

I'm now kicking myself for not introducing this idea when I was talking to Ed Egors this week.

 

[King'sPawn]

Personally, I think actual "skill" just isn't as important an element to success in hockey as approach and confidence. There has been this obsession with speed and hands of late, but it just hasn't translated into team success. Kucherov is probably the outlier in that argument, but you really don't need individual game breakers to win and I think that realistically its more of a detriment to have too many of that kind of player.

I wouldn't suggest sending a kid down to refine skills but to gain confidence in other areas of the game. It doesn't appear likely that Laferriere will be seeing and special teams shifts here in the near future. I would bet that the most likely scenario sees him sent down when Arvidsson is cleared, even if just for the inevitable cap crunch.

I don't want to see him on the 4th line come March.

I 100% agree with the bolded. If the options are play him on the 4th line in the NHL or play him in the AHL, I'd rather him play in the AHL. I think Yaysay was referring more to people wanting to send him down to the AHL NOW, which I feel there's not a benefit to him.

 

[Sol]

Can you guys explain to me why everyone is so quick to shit on laferriere when he’s been significantly better in his rookie season compare to Byfields? What is this constant need to downplay his tenacity and skills just because PLD needs a 40 goal scorer to look better while making 8 million a year? How does this logically track?

 

[King'sPawn]

Can you guys explain to me why everyone is so quick to shit on laferriere when he’s been significantly better in his rookie season compare to Byfields? What is this constant need to downplay his tenacity and skills just because PLD needs a 40 goal scorer to look better while making 8 million a year? How does this logically track?

I think there are a couple things to keep in mind.

Most people aren't really shitting on Laferriere, except a few who might argue he's "not talented" enough to boost PLD's numbers (not my sentiment, but it's been in the narrative around different discussions).

But it's also important to note that Laferriere is 10 months older than Byfield (coincidentally, he's 17 days younger than Alexis Lafreniere) - so his rookie season as a 22 year-old is much different from Byfield having a rookie season at age 18/19.

I can only speak for myself on this, but I really like Laferriere. I had him ranked 3rd in the Kings pipeline behind Clarke and Ziemmer. I just don't see him as a potential top-line player who will score 60+ points. I just see more of a 30-60 point player at his peak, while also playing special teams. That's fantastic for any player, nevermind that it's a third-round pick. So, I hope that's not misunderstood at least from my side.

 

[mysterman2]

Agreed with others regarding Kopi/Doughty.....

Thing here is the TOI for both could and should be mitigated. As painful as it might be PLD and Spence should be getting more TOI to spell Kopi and Doughty. Will never happen with Tmac at the helm but in a sane rational world thats the logical conclusion. Wont bag on the trade for the 1000th time but if PLD simply matches Danaults play should be a win win for all. Spence has outplayed Doughty...noticed Doughty simply conceeding the puck in what would be a 50/50 battle. Kopi on the PK is not ideal scenario for long term success.

for LAF....dont see any reason you send him down. Hes clearly NHL Level talent and has been one of the best forwards in the last couple of games. May not ever be a first liner but certainly no worse than Iafallo.

 

[KINGS17]

Just kick me in the nuts now.

Rob Blake...kicking Kings' fans in the nuts since 2001.

 

[Nasti]

Rob Blake...kicking Kings' fans in the nuts since 2001.

I defended Blake, the player, all those years ago and still would. But as GM, he deserves every bit of criticism he’s receiving.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Forwards are soft. Not one player stirs it up. Always losing in hitting to the opposition.

Kings want to make a statement, call up Fagemo and Helenius or Fagemo and Hodgson.

Get some kind of spark going.

Grundstrom needs to sit; he’s been invisible even physically.