GDT: 2023-24 Season Game 1 LA Kings vs Colorado Avalanche @7:00pm 10/11/23

[KingsHockey24]

Tough loss. Zac Kassian or Kyle Clifford would've been the difference here

You watch your mouth.

 

[AbsentMojo]

The cap hits for those three essentially equal PLD's cap hit, so you're basically left with the same limited amount to go around.

Just want to jump in re this sentence.. same cap hit, but for 1 player vs 3.. cant you see that the Kings have to fill 2 more positions on top of PLD salary.. so yes, this did preclude signing a #1 level goalie.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

You do realize I was replying to a post that claimed that Chicago, a team who 3 years before had one of the worst lottery beats ever was “lucky” that it evened out with Patrick Kane, and also pointing out that the Kings the year after falling in the lottery, moved up in 2020 a draft that was seen as having a clear 1 and then a clear 2-3. So it was basically the same situation that Chicago had in 2004 and 2007, which he claimed was “lucky” by his own logic wasn’t LA lucky in 2020? Am I wrong to point that out?

Sorry that pisses you off so much.

Maybe I should do what you’re more into and direct a nasty reply at a respected member board of this board who spends probably dozens of hours every year watching video and analyzing Kings prospects and shares it here with all of us free of cost to..

“Just shut the f*** up and go be Ducks fans”

Simply for saying he disagrees with organization decisions.

Would that draw praise from you? Probably, because you liked that comment but take offense to this one. You showed exactly what kind of community you want when you endorsed that ridiculous shot at him (the same one that the loser ilk crew directs at everyone who wants to have factual discussions both good and bad. But hey this one has the endorsement of Axl and the other clown who liked the “shut the F up and go be a ducks fan” post. Good job, you must be so proud to be in the tent with Axl and Wildturkey. I’ll personally take people like KP, RJ, BigKing but to each his own. Hopefully you ignore, don’t want to have discussions with people who don’t want to have discussions. Maybe Axl can link you to the secret forum where everyone loves and thinks like him. I’m sure the secret code to enter is “Blake”

Interesting reply.

Maybe you should take a few days off. You always take things so personally.

I can’t even recall that comment. I guess that particular poster was whining a little bit too much and indeed should start wearing a Duck sweater or perhaps I had forgotten my medicines.

Sometimes it is better to just NOT to win the lottery, than there is no choice, unless a Bedard is available of course.

​

 

[Herby]

Arvidsson, Lizotte, Grundstrom and likely Roy should have been traded to make room for youth and make cap space for a decent goalie.

Yup. 100%

I have said I disagreed vehemently with the decision to end the rebuild, but good Lord if you’re going to do it and try and win a championship you have to get a goaltender, even if you overpay.

This team is much closer to a championship with a good goaltender and Clarke/Turcotte than it is with Talbot and Roy/Moore

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Just want to jump in re this sentence.. same cap hit, but for 1 player vs 3.. cant you see that the Kings have to fill 2 more positions on top of PLD salary.. so yes, this did preclude signing a #1 level goalie.

Byfield ($894,167) - Kopitar ($10,000,000) - Kempe ($5,500,000)
Moore ($4,200,000) - Danault ($5,500,00) - Arvidsson ($4,250,00)
Fiala ($7,875,00) - Kupari ($1,000,000) - Vilardi ($3,437,500)
Iafallo ($4,000,000) - Lizotte ($1,675,000) - Kaliyev ($894,167)
Grundstrom ($1,300,000) - Anderson-Dolan ($775,000)

Anderson ($4,125,000) - Doughty ($11,000,000)
Gavrikov ($5,875,000) - Roy ($3,150,000)
Bjornfot ($775,000) - Spence ($820,000)
Clarke ($863,333)

Copley ($1,500,000)


Provorov retention ($2,025,000)
Richards penalty ($700,000)

That right there leaves $1,365,833 in cap space. Where does that leave money for a #1 goalie?

 

[KingPuckChoo]

i wonder, if there's anything we can do as fans to accelerate the firing of this current administration? or are we seriously going thru an up and down season, make the playoffs, knowing that our team isn't built for anything other than a 1st/2nd rd exit and stretch out this admin's grip on the Kings until it really is too late?

Dubois' buyout is cheap if done this year or next lol

after that it gets tricky

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Just want to jump in re this sentence.. same cap hit, but for 1 player vs 3.. cant you see that the Kings have to fill 2 more positions on top of PLD salary.. so yes, this did preclude signing a #1 level goalie.

How? If the money is the same, etc what goalie do you think they could have gotten for 3 million etc?

 

[Herby]

Interesting reply.

Maybe you should take a few days off. You always take things so personally.

I can’t even recall that comment. I guess that particular poster was whining a little bit too much and indeed should start wearing a Duck sweater or perhaps I had forgotten my medicines.

Sometimes it is better to just NOT to win the lottery, than there is no choice, unless a Bedard is available of course.

​

I’m sorry, when I see someone “like” a ridiculous post that takes a shot at one of the best posters here, someone who literally spends more time covering the teams prospects than any media source (granted not much competition) I find it appalling and a really bad look on people. If that’s “taking it to personal” so be it, I value this community and people’s ability to have quality discussions on both the good and bad without stupid responses questioning their fandom.

I don’t agree with everything people here say, I’ve had my battles with KP and RJ on many things. But there are never “shut the f*** up and be a Ducks fan” or “you’re not a true fan” or any of the other bs comments that get said by the Axl’s of the world, because that is not the way reasonable people respond to disagreements over their favorite hockey team. But you are not capable of seeing that and instead think people who have spent decades talking about the Kings on this forum, aren’t Kings fans.

You threw the first stone by saying I hate everything about the Kings. No need to go down that path. Many of us have fundamental disagreements with the management (and some with the coach), it doesn’t mean we aren’t fans of the team. We will all still be here long after Blake, TMac and Luc are gone. When Brown is the President, Kopitar is the GM and Clifford the coach.

 

[jgs]

This team isn't a Stanley Cup contender regardless with a goaltender. Who thought this team was a serious contender on here? Until the goaltender is fix, (and) some toughness that can score is iced, this team will be just a playoff team.

I never said that the Kings are Cup contenders but Blake in his exit press conference stated that the Kings need to take the next step and his decision to go with Talbot/Copley isn't going to accomplish that. The next step would be advancing past the first round of the playoffs. But with this goaltending tandom they won't even make the playoffs.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Byfield ($894,167) - Kopitar ($10,000,000) - Kempe ($5,500,000)
Moore ($4,200,000) - Danault ($5,500,00) - Arvidsson ($4,250,00)
Fiala ($7,875,00) - Kupari ($1,000,000) - Vilardi ($3,437,500)
Iafallo ($4,000,000) - Lizotte ($1,675,000) - Kaliyev ($894,167)
Grundstrom ($1,300,000) - Anderson-Dolan ($775,000)

Anderson ($4,125,000) - Doughty ($11,000,000)
Gavrikov ($5,875,000) - Roy ($3,150,000)
Bjornfot ($775,000) - Spence ($820,000)
Clarke ($863,333)

Copley ($1,500,000)


Provorov retention ($2,025,000)
Richards penalty ($700,000)

That right there leaves $1,365,833 in cap space. Where does that leave money for a #1 goalie?

I was mostly addressing the basic logic of 1 player vs 3 players in terms of they would have more cap room to address the goalie pos, without looking at what a #1 goalie might cost.. so no 1.3mil doesnt get you there, but certainly they could do better than what they have now.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Byfield ($894,167) - Kopitar ($10,000,000) - Kempe ($5,500,000)
Moore ($4,200,000) - Danault ($5,500,00) - Arvidsson ($4,250,00)
Fiala ($7,875,00) - Kupari ($1,000,000) - Vilardi ($3,437,500)
Iafallo ($4,000,000) - Lizotte ($1,675,000) - Kaliyev ($894,167)
Grundstrom ($1,300,000) - Anderson-Dolan ($775,000)

Anderson ($4,125,000) - Doughty ($11,000,000)
Gavrikov ($5,875,000) - Roy ($3,150,000)
Bjornfot ($775,000) - Spence ($820,000)
Clarke ($863,333)

Copley ($1,500,000)


Provorov retention ($2,025,000)
Richards penalty ($700,000)

That right there leaves $1,365,833 in cap space. Where does that leave money for a #1 goalie?

Yes it’s tough to find a solution right now. That’s kind of the point; we shouldn’t be backed into this corner.

Quite a few of us have commented on these issues for years and come up with solutions along the way.

If those of us hobbyists with limited time and resources can see these things coming, surely the org can too—the difference is they have insane resources and several people getting paid million to have the foresight AND solve the problems and have a backup/contingency strategy for when something completely foreseeable—like talbot being cooked—happens.

But repeatedly we get to this point and a bunch of people say “well what was he supposed to do?” And honestly, how many times are we going to do that dance? Again, it’s been five years, these guys aren’t inheriting problems, they’ve got aeg money and connections, there’s no reason to be holding 30 year old goalie tryouts to start the season, and far less reason to be losing youth on waivers and sitting others to play two LHDS that you’re scared of losing kn waivers 10 minutes.

I truly don’t understand at this point how people can look past so many self inflicted systematic failures. Especially when so many of us internet idiots can see them coming a year or more away.

 

[AbsentMojo]

How? If the money is the same, etc what goalie do you think they could have gotten for 3 million etc?

See reply to Chaz.. but i mainly wanted to point out the false equivalence when you still need to fill two more positions. They were a lot closer to getting a #1 financially by not doing the trade... they wouldve had to make other cuts to get there - but it was achievable.

 

[Moses Doughty]

Byfield ($894,167) - Kopitar ($10,000,000) - Kempe ($5,500,000)
Moore ($4,200,000) - Danault ($5,500,00) - Arvidsson ($4,250,00)
Fiala ($7,875,00) - Kupari ($1,000,000) - Vilardi ($3,437,500)
Iafallo ($4,000,000) - Lizotte ($1,675,000) - Kaliyev ($894,167)
Grundstrom ($1,300,000) - Anderson-Dolan ($775,000)

Anderson ($4,125,000) - Doughty ($11,000,000)
Gavrikov ($5,875,000) - Roy ($3,150,000)
Bjornfot ($775,000) - Spence ($820,000)
Clarke ($863,333)

Copley ($1,500,000)


Provorov retention ($2,025,000)
Richards penalty ($700,000)

That right there leaves $1,365,833 in cap space. Where does that leave money for a #1 goalie?

I might've missed something earlier that addressed this, but the easy solution would be to trade Iafallo and Lizotte to make cap space or trade the latter and include Arvidsson in a goalie trade (either way, 7+mil in space for 2 4th line forwards and a goalie) and you're set.

Edit: even now it's still doable, just have a little less depth if you trade Roy or Arvi (and I'm still saying trade Lizotte since you can't trust him in playoffs and his salary is enough to back fill with 2 guys, say Turcotte and Thomas). Could still afford Hart or Saros

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

See reply to Chaz.. but i mainly wanted to point out the false equivalence when you still need to fill two more positions. They were a lot closer to getting a #1 financially by not doing the trade... they wouldve had to make other cuts to get there - but it was achievable.

It wasn't, there was no #1 goalie at the price regardless if they made the trade or not, if your argument was keep Vilardi, Iafallo, and Kupari, vs Dubois, because once you trade them you open up two holes, it's a valid argument but not a strong one, they used Lewis at 1.6, and Kaliyev/Laferriere to fill those holes, which is what we want them to do, right?

 

[Mattias]

i wonder, if there's anything we can do as fans to accelerate the firing of this current administration? or are we seriously going thru an up and down season, make the playoffs, knowing that our team isn't built for anything other than a 1st/2nd rd exit and stretch out this admin's grip on the Kings until it really is too late?

Dubois' buyout is cheap if done this year or next lol

after that it gets tricky

The NHL is a business. If you do not buy jersey, tickets, and use piracy channels to watch the game the revenue stops and papa Phillip gets upset.

Sure, it is a drop in the bucket but largely nothing you can do apart from criminal behavior to get someone fired a job.

For your mental health, maybe just take a step back and relax for a while? If Kings don't make playoffs this year Dean and Todd should be gone.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yes it’s tough to find a solution right now. That’s kind of the point; we shouldn’t be backed into this corner.

Quite a few of us have commented on these issues for years and come up with solutions along the way.

If those of us hobbyists with limited time and resources can see these things coming, surely the org can too—the difference is they have insane resources and several people getting paid million to have the foresight AND solve the problems and have a backup/contingency strategy for when something completely foreseeable—like talbot being cooked—happens.

But repeatedly we get to this point and a bunch of people say “well what was he supposed to do?” And honestly, how many times are we going to do that dance? Again, it’s been five years, these guys aren’t inheriting problems, they’ve got aeg money and connections, there’s no reason to be holding 30 year old goalie tryouts to start the season, and far less reason to be losing youth on waivers and sitting others to play two LHDS that you’re scared of losing kn waivers 10 minutes.

I truly don’t understand at this point how people can look past so many self inflicted systematic failures. Especially when so many of us internet idiots can see them coming a year or more away.

Way too easy.....Way too easy to just say well they need a goalie.....ok...sure.....what goalie were they going to go and get, go back the 5 years you say you've been drumming that drum,

2017 they draft a goalie
2018 they draft a goalie
2019 they draft a goalie
2020 they draft a goalie
2021 they did not
2022 they did not

So you want to say they didn't see it, but you can see by the drafting they did, and before you say yea but it was only one per draft, show me how many teams regularly draft more than one, in one draft year?

 

[AbsentMojo]

It wasn't, there was no #1 goalie at the price regardless if they made the trade or not, if your argument was keep Vilardi, Iafallo, and Kupari, vs Dubois, because once you trade them you open up two holes, it's a valid argument but not a strong one, they used Lewis at 1.6, and Kaliyev/Laferriere to fill those holes, which is what we want them to do, right?

My basic argument is that Blake doesnt seem to realize he's in the cap era. Blake has 52 mil of cap tied up in fwds and 2.5 mil in goalies.. Look at most other teams and you will not find this imbalance. For example VGK and Col 48 mil in fwds, ~5m in goalies

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Yes it’s tough to find a solution right now. That’s kind of the point; we shouldn’t be backed into this corner.

Quite a few of us have commented on these issues for years and come up with solutions along the way.

If those of us hobbyists with limited time and resources can see these things coming, surely the org can too—the difference is they have insane resources and several people getting paid million to have the foresight AND solve the problems and have a backup/contingency strategy for when something completely foreseeable—like talbot being cooked—happens.

But repeatedly we get to this point and a bunch of people say “well what was he supposed to do?” And honestly, how many times are we going to do that dance? Again, it’s been five years, these guys aren’t inheriting problems, they’ve got aeg money and connections, there’s no reason to be holding 30 year old goalie tryouts to start the season, and far less reason to be losing youth on waivers and sitting others to play two LHDS that you’re scared of losing kn waivers 10 minutes.

I truly don’t understand at this point how people can look past so many self inflicted systematic failures. Especially when so many of us internet idiots can see them coming a year or more away.

Ah RJ, you sound like me circa 2017

Not gloating, i'm actually genuinely happy that you're seeing the issues

Foresight is so important, but unfortunately there's always that group of people "it's just a trade chill, it's just pre-season chill, it's just 1 game chill"

yet, what would be the point of playing that 1 game if it's just a game?

How can people not study and analyze that 1 game and foresee problems?

Not every pre-season game is a prophecy of things to come, yet that first damn pre-season game vs Arizona WAS VERY REVEALING, doesn't matter if the game counts or not

you can FORESEE the Kings' entire season just with that 1 pre-season game vs ARZ

oh and how in dafok is Dubois worth 8.5m for 8years???

Anyway, I was making a point but now I'm just using your comment to incoherently rant about this fokin admin!!!

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Yes it’s tough to find a solution right now. That’s kind of the point; we shouldn’t be backed into this corner.

Quite a few of us have commented on these issues for years and come up with solutions along the way.

If those of us hobbyists with limited time and resources can see these things coming, surely the org can too—the difference is they have insane resources and several people getting paid million to have the foresight AND solve the problems and have a backup/contingency strategy for when something completely foreseeable—like talbot being cooked—happens.

But repeatedly we get to this point and a bunch of people say “well what was he supposed to do?” And honestly, how many times are we going to do that dance? Again, it’s been five years, these guys aren’t inheriting problems, they’ve got aeg money and connections, there’s no reason to be holding 30 year old goalie tryouts to start the season, and far less reason to be losing youth on waivers and sitting others to play two LHDS that you’re scared of losing kn waivers 10 minutes.

I truly don’t understand at this point how people can look past so many self inflicted systematic failures. Especially when so many of us internet idiots can see them coming a year or more away.

As I said above, I agree that there are valid criticisms to be made and discussions to be had about decisions made in the years leading up to this point. I'm still not sold that ending the rebuild early was the right move. For whatever reason (Drew and Anze complaining, AEG wanting playoff revenue again, etc.), Blake did end the rebuild early and we're at this point where the Kings are "competing" (whether that actually means having a legit shot at the cup is a different question).

I just don't see an easy way to have solved the goalie situation for this season (as the non-PLD trade lineup shows), even if I acknowledge that key decisions made to this point put Blake in a spot that left little room.

My basic argument is that Blake doesnt seem to realize he's in the cap era. Blake has 52 mil of cap tied up in fwds and 2.5 mil in goalies.. Look at most other teams and you will not find this imbalance. For example VGK and Col 48 mil in fwds, ~5m in goalies

The Kings had over $10 million tied up in goalies (yes, I know that includes the Cal deal that looks bad at this point) last year and that didn't work out so well.

 

[Herby]

It wasn't, there was no #1 goalie at the price regardless if they made the trade or not, if your argument was keep Vilardi, Iafallo, and Kupari, vs Dubois, because once you trade them you open up two holes, it's a valid argument but not a strong one, they used Lewis at 1.6, and Kaliyev/Laferriere to fill those holes, which is what we want them to do, right?

I was totally supportive in bringing in PLD (and Eichel before him) because once they committed to going for it they had to get better down the middle. It was the #1 need and it wasn’t close.

But it was all just cleaning up a mess that he created by his inability to draft and develop any of the high picks into C’s. Not a single one!

I’m sure in the DL player boxes world, Blake envisioned Kopitar/Byfield/Turcotte as his C’s for this season. Kopitar at $10m and the other two on ELC’s. Had that been reality the Kings have almost $12m more in cap space this season on centers, and still have what they traded to Winnipeg to either trade for a different need or keep on the roster. This is another example of why the draft mistakes continue to haunt the team. You can’t acquire good veteran C’s unless you pay heavily in UFA or you pay heavily in assets (and then in cap space) to trade for them, we have seen the Kings do both these things in response to the misses at the draft and it’s caused us to be in this position where we don’t have a capable NHL goaltender, our third d-pair is poor and we basically have no cap space to address it.

This is why ending a rebuild early and trying to win with declining older players making $10+m was just going to be a really tough challenge in a cap league.

 

[AbsentMojo]

The Kings had over $10 million tied up in goalies (yes, I know that includes the Cal deal that looks bad at this point) last year and that didn't work out so well.

The Cal blunder is a separate issue id say. Lets look at the level of talent in goal the last 2 seasons: Everyone knew that JQ and Cal were a very weak tandem coming into the season (and took up 10m in cap). That was Blake praying for a Cal turnaround. Now this season with JQ off the books and Cal trade relieving a good chunk of his cap hit, they did not put those resources into goal, they put them into a 2C... and there is an equally if not weaker goaltending pair entering the regular season.

 

[tigermask48]

If Kings don't make playoffs this year Dean and Todd should be gone.

Hehe. This is a nice little Fruedian Slip right here.

 

[King'sPawn]

I liked PLD today too. I don’t think he was bad. I think their goaltending was the difference as well

I promise I'm not doing this directed at you, but it's an example of a general problem I have.

All preseason we heard about how Byfield "looking good" wasn't enough anymore. Because he needs to put up points.

There have been days, weeks, and months pointing out where he did things right, room for improvement, and areas he's grown. And he's still making $894k.

Dubois is making 10 times the amount and hasn't been dicked around with questionable opportunity and developmental decisions. And the package the Kings traded away to acquire him, which also has a lower cap hit, outscored him. But people are okay with him 'looking good'.

I agree. He did look good. But why is 'looking good' good enough for the player taking up 10x the cap space, while also getting paired regularly with arguably the singularly most offensively talented player on the team (Fiala)?

I just see a double standard in general.

Heck, Kempe was the biggest anchor and drag on the Kopitar line all night. It wasn't until it culminated in an empty net goal against that some started pointing out anything negative against him. He didn't even look that great at all, aside from his drive to the net that contributed to Byfield's goal.

 

[Sol]

I do not necessarily disagree with some things you say but now you just take it to another level. yeah sure, like drafting is rocket science. The Kings picked who who they should have picked.

Sorry but now i am starting to understand you think everything LA is doing sucks.

That comment is absolutely ridiculous criticism.

How can anyone say this with a straight face? You get payed for results. That’s the bottom line.

If the Kings aren’t picking up the right players with high picks then they’re not picking the right people.

 

[Sol]

I promise I'm not doing this directed at you, but it's an example of a general problem I have.

All preseason we heard about how Byfield "looking good" wasn't enough anymore. Because he needs to put up points.

There have been days, weeks, and months pointing out where he did things right, room for improvement, and areas he's grown. And he's still making $894k.

Dubois is making 10 times the amount and hasn't been dicked around with questionable opportunity and developmental decisions. And the package the Kings traded away to acquire him, which also has a lower cap hit, outscored him. But people are okay with him 'looking good'.

I agree. He did look good. But why is 'looking good' good enough for the player taking up 10x the cap space, while also getting paired regularly with arguably the singularly most offensively talented player on the team (Fiala)?

I just see a double standard in general.

Heck, Kempe was the biggest anchor and drag on the Kopitar line all night. It wasn't until it culminated in an empty net goal against that some started pointing out anything negative against him. He didn't even look that great at all, aside from his drive to the net that contributed to Byfield's goal.

I don’t disagree. I think his acquisition cost was way too high and I don’t think he brings that “value” nor do I think he can either based upon the fact that Kopitar is still taking the number 1 spot. I think he looked good, however I absolutely think acquiring PLD makes no logical sense. I would have preferred they have Byfield a center shot rather than acquire PLD. I don’t think the offense was bad last year at all, I think the goaltending and defense killed the Kings. And it’s going to be the same thing this year. Good player, redundant player, expensive acquisition, and bad asset management.

Vilardi is quite easily the most talented player from the draft and Iafallo had decent production. I don’t think we would be losing much at all if we kept them.