2023-24 Roster Thread #8: A Cam York State of Mind

[FlyerNutter]

Good luck trying those mind games with established NHL’ers long term.

Young guys, or depth guys looking to prove themselves will put up with it because they have to.

 

[renberg]

Good luck trying those mind games with established NHL’ers long term.

Young guys, or depth guys looking to prove themselves will put up with it because they have to.

This also goes to the top of the management chain. If Briere, a friend of Couturier’s, allows Torts to pull this stuff with Sean, what does that say about him?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Did people really think this was gonna stop at Hayes & DeAngelo?

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I mean that's definitely their job though

Strong disagree that it shouldn’t be their job, but I understand that it currently is their job.

if Bryce Harper starts bating 8th in the lineup, fans would be pissed if Scott Boras put out a statement. (Only agent I could think of)

I have no idea why agents should be involved right now, post trade deadline, when they aren’t on the team.

What happened to Coots is out of line but it is literally a coaches decision. Torts is an idiot and I wish he was gone yesterday but it is his right. It is literally his right to decide who is on the ice and who isn’t.

Do I wish Coots was actually told what he needs to improve on? Of course. But a statement when your 8yr62m client gets scratched after a month of poor play is pretty lame.

As a society in general we need to start respecting the authority of coaches and referees, you would be shocked to see how kids/parents act towards their coaches and towards refs nowadays. I’m not saying Torts is good or should be deemed immune, but society definitely devalues coaching nowadays.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Strong disagree that it shouldn’t be their job, but I understand that it currently is their job.

if Bryce Harper starts bating 8th in the lineup, fans would be pissed if Scott Boras put out a statement. (Only agent I could think of)

I have no idea why agents should be involved right now, post trade deadline, when they aren’t on the team.

What happened to Coots is out of line but it is literally a coaches decision. Torts is an idiot and I wish he was gone yesterday but it is his right. It is literally his right to decide who is on the ice and who isn’t.

Do I wish Coots was actually told what he needs to improve on? Of course. But a statement when your 8yr62m client gets scratched after a month of poor play is pretty lame.

As a society in general we need to start respecting the authority of coaches and referees, you would be shocked to see how kids/parents act towards their coaches and towards refs nowadays. I’m not saying Torts is good or should be deemed immune, but society definitely devalues coaching nowadays.

Couturier was moved to the proverbial 8th in the lineup and the agent didn't put out a statement. He did so after the first healthy scratching of an NHL Captain in either a decade or longer if you want to chalk up Jovanovski's to the surgery recovery. The hockey community deifies the Captains to what a think is a ridiculous degree, but I accept that it's part of the culture. The downside for management is that if they scratch one, it's a big deal. It's not a surprise. They know the consequences beforehand.

I could not agree more about youth sports though. I just tell people to shut up.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

That is exactly their job. They don't just negotiate contracts. I don't know why every conversation about agents turns weird.

Because agents have a ton of clients, they don’t watch every game, they don’t attend practice every day, they don’t tell Coots where to go on the PP. Their involvement or input on lineup decisions shouldn’t actually be a thing

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Couturier was moved to the proverbial 8th in the lineup and the agent didn't put out a statement. He did so after the first healthy scratching of an NHL Captain in either a decade or longer if you want to chalk up Jovanovski's to the surgery recovery. The hockey community deifies the Captains to what a think is a ridiculous degree, but I accept that it's part of the culture. The downside for management is that if they scratch one, it's a big deal. It's not a surprise. They know the consequences beforehand.

I could not agree more about youth sports though. I just tell people to shut up.

This is all fair and logically checks out, and I personally wouldn’t have scratched Coots or in theory - my captain - but I just think its a bad look to have the agent involved.

Like he just got scratched for a game. It really isn't that big of a deal.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Funny that you think Torts isn't casually strolling into the Flyers retirement home in a new position once he's done coaching (did he ever start?).

I'm surprised you don't think he's headed for the front office in some form. Or does that sufficiently insulate him from dealing with agents?

Oh I'm pretty sure he will. He's the most powerful figure in the organization. Everyone bows down to him. It's more paychecks and less work. Do I think he was be a hands on, day-to-day guy? He won't want that. He'll just want to hear himself talk.

 

[wankstifier]

Someone needs to leak the payroll. I want to see how much they’re wasting on consultants

 

[captainpaxil]

If coots is the captain part of his job is to go to the coach about things on behalf of the team. Hey man if you want me to have legs in April I can't give you twenty a night
At the same time you don't bench your best player when you're in playoff push

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I think if the team announced they are giving Couturier a mental break/some maintenance days off I think we would of understood. But the message was obviously to embarrass another player on this team to feed the ego of a egomaniac HC.
Torts said it was between him and Couturier. How exactly does that work when there is zero face to face communication between the 2.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

And the fact that Laughton, who has been f***ing ABYSMAL, has played every game, how the f*** do you scratch Couts? Couts is by far and away still a better player than Laughton even if he is hurting and isn't at 100%.

In the last 10 games, in the top 10 TOI for linemates, Laughton has been tied to Deslauriers for one line and Cates for one line.
Couts, in the same time frame, he's tied to 3 different line combos with Deslauriers, Lycksell with one line, and two lines with Gurianov.
Laughton, in the last 10 games, was constantly getting gifted better linemates while still being a pretty crappy player. Yet scratching Couts is a Couts issue, you not, not Torts putting him with players below his level and shouldn't be on the same line. I remember the years of Couts struggling to do f***ing anything on the 3rd and 4th line and then when he got a sniff of the top 6, he actually blossomed and did well. But you know...

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Strong disagree that it shouldn’t be their job, but I understand that it currently is their job.

if Bryce Harper starts bating 8th in the lineup, fans would be pissed if Scott Boras put out a statement. (Only agent I could think of)

I have no idea why agents should be involved right now, post trade deadline, when they aren’t on the team.

What happened to Coots is out of line but it is literally a coaches decision. Torts is an idiot and I wish he was gone yesterday but it is his right. It is literally his right to decide who is on the ice and who isn’t.

Do I wish Coots was actually told what he needs to improve on? Of course. But a statement when your 8yr62m client gets scratched after a month of poor play is pretty lame.

As a society in general we need to start respecting the authority of coaches and referees, you would be shocked to see how kids/parents act towards their coaches and towards refs nowadays. I’m not saying Torts is good or should be deemed immune, but society definitely devalues coaching nowadays.

Agents are often called Representation & Advocates for a reason ya know...as JoJo said, it's not just purely about money. Sure it's in Torts' job description to own the lineup card, but it's 2024 and this is essentially your franchise player. I'd argue it's malpractice on Torts' part as a HC that he even went down this road. If an Agent has to speak up for his player (since it affects the player's perception around the league by being benched), then it is totally in-bounds IMO.

FWIW - doesn't it count for something that Couturier himself put out the statement first that he wasn't happy? Not like he hid behind his agent and is pretend he's happy.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I agree that in reality healthy scratching your captain one game in is not a big deal. I don’t think the captaincy status is a big a deal in reality. They probably get too much credit (see Toews) or too much blame (see Giroux) for the results of ultimately 20 something guys on the team. No different than starting QB’s in football.

But that’s not a world the hockey culture exists in & not one that Tortorella himself lives in either.

 

[Magua]

I also think, along with the lionizing of captains in hockey, playing through injuries is sacrosanct in hockey culture. Meltzer says Couturier’s January injury is a lingering one, and he assuredly has general fatigue post-surgeries. Humiliating a player under those circumstances -- especially when it's your new captain, who is a Selke winner with an unblemished record of playing the "right way" -- is a slap in the face. Remember with Farabee: he was coming off neck surgery when Tortorella was prodding him. Players don't make excuses, but then Tortorella doesn't respond in kind.

Couturier is one of the best players on the team still, and it doesn't help them win on a nightly basis. Tortorella already docked his usage and put him in an impossible role from which to dig himself out. This was a private and public embarrassment stunt for an emotionally insecure coach.

Did people really think this was gonna stop at Hayes & DeAngelo?

“The scorpion and the frog. Ever heard of 'em? A scorpion wants to cross a river, but he can't swim. He goes to the frog, who can, and asks for a ride. The frog says, ‘If I give you a ride on my back, you'll go and sting me!’ The scorpion replies, ‘It would not be in my interest to sting you since as I'll be on your back we both would drown.’

“The frog thinks about this logic for a while and accepts the deal. Takes the scorpion on his back. Braves the waters. Halfway over feels a burning spear in his side and realizes the scorpion has stung him after all. And as they both sink beneath the waves a frog cries out, ‘Why did you sting me, Mr. Scorpion? For now we both will drown!’ The scorpion replies, ‘I can't help it, it's in my nature.’”

 

[BritainStix]

Its therapeutic to shit on them, and get a few laughs from some others who do so.

Yourself?

Fair enough. Can't argue with that.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Fair enough. Can't argue with that.

It’s much easier to do here instead of bug real life people, because really. Who gives a f*** that Sean Couturier was scratched? Lot bigger things in life than that, or this team.

It’s just a weird obsession that I’ve been unable to shake.

Thankfully warm weather is coming soon, and back on the water.

I’ve got a Jets/Oil game next Tuesday. That’s much better hockey. I’m low key excited for Matvei, if you’d like one positive. Would be nice to have a name to follow.

 

[BlackandOrange]

Couts' game has been dipping since the New Year. No arguments from me about the scratch. (I think he is injured and should sit out)

Don't play well don't get ice time. The reverse Keith Yandle situation some call it.

Now communication and feedback from the coach could be improved. Also some people get a lot of leeway compared to others which I disagree with. Frost/Brink vs Atkinson/Deslauriers/Cates/Hathaway for example.

 

[Curufinwe]

How can can there be no arguments about the scratch when Deslauriers played?

 

[freakydallas13]

Did people really think this was gonna stop at Hayes & DeAngelo?

"Yeah but who cares if Torts is an asshole to Hayes and TDA, those players suck and I don't care about them"

-Every contrarian incapable of extrapolating current actions into future consequences

 

[Starat327]

"Yeah but who cares if Torts is an asshole to Hayes and TDA, those players suck and I don't care about them"

-Every contrarian incapable of extrapolating current actions into future consequences

Somewhere in this thread, there's a poster on my ignore list justifying this because Couturier hasn't played well recently. Most likely, they're drawing similar parallels to how Hagg was better than Ghost for loke 20 games after Take Lahoe.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

If coots is the captain part of his job is to go to the coach about things on behalf of the team. Hey man if you want me to have legs in April I can't give you twenty a night
At the same time you don't bench your best player when you're in playoff push

Torts thinks no matter how long his foots on the floor the engine should be able to take it and then some.

if the engine pops, whip it harder..

 

[Strawberry Fields]

 

[Tripod]

How can can there be no arguments about the scratch when Deslauriers played?

He set the tone by beating up Reaves.

Not all players have the same roles.



Just 2 things a friend has said to me defending Torts.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

He set the tone by beating up Reaves.

Not all players have the same roles.



Just 2 things a friend has said to me defending Torts.

Well you can tell your friend that Nicky Fists is shit cause the Flyers are 4-8 in games he fights in