2023-24 Roster Thread #7: A shave and a haircut, two bits

[Hollywood Cannon]

It's times like this that I like to remind myself that WE are the ones that overrate prospects.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Bonk’s season is only seen in a positive light because he is scoring tap-ins in front of the net on a historic PP. Look under the hood and his season is hardly spectacular. But I do like that we now choose to ignore the +/- difference between he and Dickinson when that’s all we heard about Adam Ginning last year.

 

[wankstifier]

Maybe an optimistic evaluation of Bonk could be a good thing even if it's misguided. They could consider moving on from York who seems like a quality defender but might lack the offensive skills/upside to justify a long term commitment.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Not saying they haven’t overachieved in other areas this year so far but I do think in the short term losing Hart is a big loss. They never really got sunken yet this year with extended stretches of poor goalie play rotating between Hart & Ersson. Now Ersson is gonna have to shoulder a true 1G workload & Peterson/Sandstrom aren’t nearly as good behind him.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Then Michkov hits his prime at 25, those guys are toast, others are getting toasted, and then what?

Giroux v2.0

hopefully Michkov is smart enuf to NOT waste his career here

 

[BigToe]

Florida's 2024 1st, Brink, and Risto retained at 50%. Do it.

I know, I'm just hoping because Jiricek is damn good.

I'd much rather use those assets in a Zegras trade.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Hello, everyone. Avs fan stopping by. I hope everyone’s spirits are remaining high through this part of the year.

Was curious about whether Morgan Frost is on the trade block (still?)? If so, what is the realistic ask from Philadelphia? The Avs were linked to him by report/rumor last month.

Also, are you as confused as everyone else about whether Phi is buyers or sellers?

 

[Audible Velvet]

Hello, everyone. Avs fan stopping by. I hope everyone’s spirits are remaining high through this part of the year.

Was curious about whether Morgan Frost is on the trade block (still?)? If so, what is the realistic ask from Philadelphia? The Avs were linked to him by report/rumor last month.

Also, are you as confused as everyone else about whether Phi is buyers or sellers?

Me personally, you can’t have him. Your team has plenty of skill.
Flyers, give them a 6’2” 220 low IQ power forward prospect, and we’re on our way.

Now someone can give you a better answer, because who knows what with the tunnel vision running this franchise. They certainly treat him like he’s expendable

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Florida's 2024 1st, Brink, and Risto retained at 50%. Do it.

I know, I'm just hoping because Jiricek is damn good.

I wanted him or nemec over cutter for what it's worth, get on the phones Danny boy, call them more than 17 times

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Hello, everyone. Avs fan stopping by. I hope everyone’s spirits are remaining high through this part of the year.

Was curious about whether Morgan Frost is on the trade block (still?)? If so, what is the realistic ask from Philadelphia? The Avs were linked to him by report/rumor last month.

Also, are you as confused as everyone else about whether Phi is buyers or sellers?

You’re not going to get a good idea on the ask because there are basically two camps when it comes to Frost.

I’m in the one that thinks he’s always been good and they simply don’t like him, thus the ask is not going to be what it should. The other option is that he’s soft and useless and they should jump at an offer of a 2 or something. Doesn’t seem to be much middle ground. If Colorado can get him cheaply, they should. It wouldn’t be a surprise for it to occur.

We’re all confused on what they’ll do because they say one thing (rebuilding) and do another (not rebuilding). Feature not a bug and all of that.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Who are the interesting players on Columbus who've been mismanaged? Kent Johnson, David Jiricek...?

Would love to have those two players, as well as marchenko

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Hello, everyone. Avs fan stopping by. I hope everyone’s spirits are remaining high through this part of the year.

Was curious about whether Morgan Frost is on the trade block (still?)? If so, what is the realistic ask from Philadelphia? The Avs were linked to him by report/rumor last month.

Also, are you as confused as everyone else about whether Phi is buyers or sellers?

We’re sellers. Everyone (the fans, the media, Torts, Briere) agrees.

The majority of fans here would say Frost is unavailable unless you’re absolutely overpaying.

There’s a few fans here who agree with how Torts has treated him and would probably be open to trading him because his offense is “inconsistent”.

The rest of us are nervous because Frost keeps coming up in rumors. Is that just lazy reporting because of him being benched? Or are the Flyers actually considering moving the only talented u-25 player they have at a position of massive weakness? Given how the organization has yo-yo’d him around, it’s unlikely we’d get an appropriate return.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Me personally, you can’t have him. Your team has plenty of skill.
Flyers, give them a 6’2” 220 low IQ power forward prospect, and we’re on our way.

Now someone can give you a better answer, because who knows what with the tunnel vision running this franchise. They certainly treat him like he’s expendable

You’re not going to get a good idea on the ask because there are basically two camps when it comes to Frost.

I’m in the one that thinks he’s always been good and they simply don’t like him, thus the ask is not going to be what it should. The other option is that he’s soft and useless and they should jump at an offer of a 2 or something. Doesn’t seem to be much middle ground. If Colorado can get him cheaply, they should. It wouldn’t be a surprise for it to occur.

We’re all confused on what they’ll do because they say one thing (rebuilding) and do another (not rebuilding). Feature not a bug and all of that.

We’re sellers. Everyone (the fans, the media, Torts, Briere) agrees.

The majority of fans here would say Frost is unavailable unless you’re absolutely overpaying.

There’s a few fans here who agree with how Torts has treated him and would probably be open to trading him because his offense is “inconsistent”.

The rest of us are nervous because Frost keeps coming up in rumors. Is that just lazy reporting because of him being benched? Or are the Flyers actually considering moving the only talented u-25 player they have at a position of massive weakness? Given how the organization has yo-yo’d him around, it’s unlikely we’d get an appropriate return.

Thanks for the replies.

So people from afar arent the only ones confused about the direction.

Hopefully the Avs are exploring this. Your return should be good due to scarcity. At least better than some of the comments suggest.

He's been mostly impressive when Ive watched.

 

[deadhead]

You’re not going to get a good idea on the ask because there are basically two camps when it comes to Frost.

I’m in the one that thinks he’s always been good and they simply don’t like him, thus the ask is not going to be what it should. The other option is that he’s soft and useless and they should jump at an offer of a 2 or something. Doesn’t seem to be much middle ground. If Colorado can get him cheaply, they should. It wouldn’t be a surprise for it to occur.

We’re all confused on what they’ll do because they say one thing (rebuilding) and do another (not rebuilding). Feature not a bug and all of that.

The third one is he's pretty good, but not as good as he could be if he played more consistently.
In which case the only way they'd trade him is based on his upside, and not just his current play - that is, they're not giving up on him unless someone makes an "offer they can't refuse."

When Torts gives up on a player, he's pretty straight forward about it, see Hayes, TDA, et al.
With Frost it's always been about getting more out of him, same with York, same with Sanheim, same with . . .

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Charlie is the guest on the Evolving Hockey podcast this week. Here are the bullet points:

• Vigneault quit during the pandemic. He spent the first 15 minutes ripping the previous coaching staff. Sometimes it was direct. Sometimes not.
• He thinks there is now at least a chance of him staying now that Frost passed the creepy (my word, not his) Tortorella test about confronting him in return. No one is willing to tell him what was said in that meeting.
• He continues to not default to the metrics with Frost specifically. (This continues to be weird.)
• The Foerster discussion was mostly generic hockey terms with no specificity whatsoever like “hockey IQ” and “getting into open spaces”. A complete waste of time, including a “best case outcome for (Foerster) is Mark Stone” with a caveat of “the chances are probably in the single digits.”
• Sean Couturier: Still Good
• Laughton has had an absolutely terrible year. (cough)
• He thinks they’re not going to add. He does think Walker gets moved in part because they acquired Drysdale. Seeler probably stays.

There was various and sundry other discussion about topics like the Flyers being a rush team, but it’s stuff everyone here already knows.

 

[deadhead]

Bonk’s season is only seen in a positive light because he is scoring tap-ins in front of the net on a historic PP. Look under the hood and his season is hardly spectacular. But I do like that we now choose to ignore the +/- difference between he and Dickinson when that’s all we heard about Adam Ginning last year.

Except Bonk has been putting up great +/- numbers during this streak, +14 in his last ten games.

My suspicion, since there is so little information, is he struggled initially trying to play a bigger role on offense, and took a while to adjust, learning when to take chances and when to play it safe.

His ES numbers are solid, not elite, but more than good enough for an offensive D-man in his D+1 season. I don't think the PP scoring is projectable to the NHL, but it shows a wider skill set than initially thought.

 

[deadhead]

Charlie is the guest on the Evolving Hockey podcast this week. Here are the bullet points:

• Vigneault quit during the pandemic. He spent the first 15 minutes ripping the previous coaching staff. Sometimes it was direct. Sometimes not.
• He thinks there is now at least a chance of him staying now that Frost passed the creepy (my word, not his) Tortorella test about confronting him in return. No one is willing to tell him what was said in that meeting.
• He continues to not default to the metrics with Frost specifically. (This continues to be weird.)
• The Foerster discussion was mostly generic hockey terms with no specificity whatsoever like “hockey IQ” and “getting into open spaces”. A complete waste of time, including a “best case outcome for (Foerster) is Mark Stone” with a caveat of “the chances are probably in the single digits.”
• Sean Couturier: Still Good
• Laughton has had an absolutely terrible year. (cough)
• He thinks they’re not going to add. He does think Walker gets moved in part because they acquired Drysdale. Seeler probably stays.

There was various and sundry other discussion about topics like the Flyers being a rush team, but it’s stuff everyone here already knows.

I think Charlie is finding it harder to find inside info b/c Briere is pretty transparent except when it would be stupid to reveal details. Same with Torts and even Jones. This group lacks the paranoia that seemed to be the norm in the FO in the past.

Foerster is going to be really good, the more I watch him, the more I like him, the scoring will come, he showed the shot that was advertised against the Bruins, two quick release, accurate shots for goals. Like a lot of young shooters, I think he was rushing his shot, takes time to develop the instinctual feel for time and space at the NHL level. It not just that he wins board battles, he knows what to do after he wins, whereas someone like Hathaway has trouble. Foerster has been rated 100% defensively (much like Cates last year) and I think for similar reasons, he has the IQ to be in the right spot to break up plays and the stick control to do so.

There is something wrong with Laughton, I mean he simply isn't this bad (though he's been solid on the PK), he never was a great center but used to be solid as a 4C on a forecheck line. Maybe it's time to move him to LW on a permanent basis.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Charlie is the guest on the Evolving Hockey podcast this week. Here are the bullet points:

• Vigneault quit during the pandemic. He spent the first 15 minutes ripping the previous coaching staff. Sometimes it was direct. Sometimes not.
• He thinks there is now at least a chance of him staying now that Frost passed the creepy (my word, not his) Tortorella test about confronting him in return. No one is willing to tell him what was said in that meeting.
• He continues to not default to the metrics with Frost specifically. (This continues to be weird.)
• The Foerster discussion was mostly generic hockey terms with no specificity whatsoever like “hockey IQ” and “getting into open spaces”. A complete waste of time, including a “best case outcome for (Foerster) is Mark Stone” with a caveat of “the chances are probably in the single digits.”
• Sean Couturier: Still Good
• Laughton has had an absolutely terrible year. (cough)
• He thinks they’re not going to add. He does think Walker gets moved in part because they acquired Drysdale. Seeler probably stays.

There was various and sundry other discussion about topics like the Flyers being a rush team, but it’s stuff everyone here already knows.

I think the only reason Seeler stays, for whatever baffling reason it may be in the end, is that he'll be cheap.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Charlie is the guest on the Evolving Hockey podcast this week. Here are the bullet points:

• Vigneault quit during the pandemic. He spent the first 15 minutes ripping the previous coaching staff. Sometimes it was direct. Sometimes not.

I theorize that the team pushed him to run a safer defensive system. As you know, "defensive safe system" is a concept that is incompatible with every molecule of AV. And yet we watched him try to do exactly that and it was nonstop bizarre. His entire idea of that seemed to be "I'll do everything the same, except only one or zero guys can chase the puck into the OZ." And so he quit.

This is why I now assume that management has asked every coach going back to Lavi to do the same thing, before they finally threw up their hands and got Tortorella since that's probably who they were hoping to emulate at the start anyway.

• He thinks there is now at least a chance of him staying now that Frost passed the creepy (my word, not his) Tortorella test about confronting him in return. No one is willing to tell him what was said in that meeting.

This is an interesting and unique process. That is what I will say.

• He continues to not default to the metrics with Frost specifically. (This continues to be weird.)

Charlie is a real go-getter

• The Foerster discussion was mostly generic hockey terms with no specificity whatsoever like “hockey IQ” and “getting into open spaces”. A complete waste of time, including a “best case outcome for (Foerster) is Mark Stone” with a caveat of “the chances are probably in the single digits.”
• Sean Couturier: Still Good
• Laughton has had an absolutely terrible year. (cough)
• He thinks they’re not going to add. He does think Walker gets moved in part because they acquired Drysdale. Seeler probably stays.

There was various and sundry other discussion about topics like the Flyers being a rush team, but it’s stuff everyone here already knows.

Keeping Seeler is stupid. They are not rebuilding. And that's great! Rebuilding makes so much dust. Who likes dust?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think the only reason Seeler stays, for whatever baffling reason it may be in the end, is that he'll be cheap.

Charlie's paraphrased reasoning was "They think he's important for the culture, whether or not I agree."

 

[GKJ]

Not saying they haven’t overachieved in other areas this year so far but I do think in the short term losing Hart is a big loss. They never really got sunken yet this year with extended stretches of poor goalie play rotating between Hart & Ersson. Now Ersson is gonna have to shoulder a true 1G workload & Peterson/Sandstrom aren’t nearly as good behind him.

It has me wondering if they’re watching the waiver wire. They just missed out on Spencer Martin. Might be why they kept Sandstrom on the roster for so long early in the year.

 

[deadhead]

I think this is simply signalling that with 21+ picks the next two years, Seeler has more value to them than a 5th rd pick, now a 3rd might close the deal. But they'll only resign him on a cheap deal, if they think his price will be AVV $2+M I suspect he's gone.

There's just a sizeable gap in value between top 100 and later round picks. And past 150 . . .

I doubt they get a 1st for Walker, but a 2nd and 4th or something like that would be fine.

It has me wondering if they’re watching the waiver wire. They just missed out on Spencer Martin. Might be why they kept Sandstrom on the roster for so long early in the year.

Where are they on the waiver list now? They use this year's standings at some point, don't they?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Where are they on the waiver list now? They use this year's standings at some point, don't they?

Yep, it switches over on November 1st.

It's Points%, so they're 18th right now.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Charlie's paraphrased reasoning was "They think he's important for the culture, whether or not I agree."

Culture!

Positive. Thoughts.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Culture means jack shit if you ain't winning jack shit.