Prospect Info: 2023-24 Prospect Thread

[xECK29x]

This season I'll just update the first post each Monday instead of a copy/paste of a table each time.

+ = on IR or just hurt
# = season complete

PLAYER	POS	ACQUIRED	HFB RANK	TEAM	GP	G	A	PTS	PIM	+/-
William Dufour	RW	2020 round 5 #152	1	Bridgeport Islanders	52	15	10	25	29	-12
Samuel Bolduc	D	2019 round 2 #57	2	New York Islanders	33	1	2	3	6	-5
				Bridgeport Islanders	5	1	0	1	2	2
Matthew Maggio	RW	2022 round 5 #142	3	Bridgeport Islanders	58	16	9	25	20	-2
Simon Holmstrom	RW/LW	2019 round 1 #23	4	New York Islanders	72	14	9	23	14	-1
Danny Nelson #	C	2023 round 2 #49	5	Univ. of Notre Dame	30	9	14	23	32	5
				USA U20	7	1	1	2	0	4
Ruslan Iskhakov	C/LW	2018 round 2 #43	6	Bridgeport Islanders	67	17	31	48	30	-16
Tyce Thompson	RW	Trade		Utica Comets	15	0	5	5	12	4
				Bridgeport Islanders	47	3	10	13	54	-19
Calle Odelius	D	2022 round 2 #65	8	Djugardens IF	10	0	4	4	2	0
				Djugardens IF (Playoffs)	2	0	1	1	2	0
				Sweden U20	8	0	1	1	8	-
Robin Salo	D	2017 round 2 #46	9	Bridgeport Islanders	64	5	18	23	22	-12
Isaiah George	D	2022 round 4 #98	10	London Knights	68	6	24	30	54	26
				London (Playoffs)	4	1	2	3	0	5
Alex Jefferies	LW	2020 round 4 #121	11	Merrimack College	22	13	10	23	19	1
				Bridgeport Islanders	8	3	1	4	0	-1
Eetu Liukas	LW	2021 round 5 #157	12	Bridgeport Islanders	45	3	4	7	34	-13
Quinn Finley #	LW	2022 round 3 #78	13	Univ. of Wisconsin	35	9	6	15	16	4
				USA U20	7	1	1	2	0	2
Jesse Nurmi #	LW	2023 round 4 #113	14	KooKoo	19	0	2	2	2	-7
				KooKoo U20	6	4	4	8	0	-2
				Finland U20	6	0	2	2	0	-
Aleksi Malinen #	D	2021 round 6 #189	15T	JYP	15	0	2	2	0	-3
Zach Schulz #	D	2023 round 6 #177	HM1	Univ. of Wisconsin	33	2	4	6	6	4
Cameron Berg #	C	2021 round 4 #125	HM2	Univ. of North Dakota	40	20	17	37	8	7
Daylan Kuefler	LW	2022 round 6 #174	HM3	Worcester Railers	17	5	3	8	9	-4
				Bridgeport Islanders	19	3	3	6	37	-1
Aidan Fulp	D	UFA		Bridgeport Islanders	47	1	4	5	14	-19
Justin Gill	C	2023 round 5 #145		Baie-Comeau Drakkar	65	40	58	98	66	57
				Baie-Comeau (Playoffs)	4	3	4	7	2	4
Dennis Good Bogg #	D	2023 round 7 #209		AIK J20	18	1	4	5	45	-5
				AIK	10	0	1	1	0	1
				Vallentuna Hockey	7	0	1	1	10	-1
				Brodernas/Vasby	4	0	0	0	2	-2
				Östersunds IK	8	0	1	1	6	-4
				Östersunds IK (Playoffs)	1	0	0	0	0	0
Alexander Ljungkrantz #	LW/RW	2020 round 3 #90		Almtuna IS	44	20	12	32	8	-7
				Farjestad BK	8	0	0	0	0	-1
Travis Mitchell	D	UFA		Bridgeport Islanders	34	1	3	4	36	-6
Reece Newkirk	C	2019 round 5 #147		Bridgeport Islanders	15	1	2	3	2	1
				Worcester Railers	10	5	4	9	2	4
Matias Rajaniemi	D	2020 round 6 #183		SaiPa	53	0	8	8	18	-24
				Bridgeport Islanders	0	0	0	0	0	0
GOALIES					GP	GAA	SV%	SO	W-L-T
Tristan Lennox	G	2021 round 3 #93	15T	Worcester Railers	13	2.94	.909	0	5-6-1
Jakub Skarek	G	2018 round 3 #72		Bridgeport Islanders	34	3.15	.890	0	7-21-5
Henrik Tikkanen	G	2020 round 7 #214	Currently UFA	Bridgeport Islanders	16	2.17	.927	0	7-5-2
				Worcester Railers	18	3.25	.890	0	10-6-1

Click to read more...

 

[The Real JT]

And Barzal!

And although not a first rounder, Sorokin was a pick as well.

True regarding both players who are both prime assets though Barzal being a first round pick only bolsters my argument.

To be fair neither one of those players are now young by NHL standards and regrettably they are both past their cost controlled RFA deals.

 

[periferal]

There are two separate issues: (1) keeping vs trading away first round picks; and (2) the team's scouting and development performance.

Yes. This is a good point and I do separate them.

Re: the second one, I think the scouts have done a good job with the picks they've made (eg., Dufour, Nelson, Finley, etc.).

What's interesting is how often the scouting department get's later round picks right (2-7) and yet completely can blow a 1st round pick. Even forgiving the Wahlstrom pick (which was the pick literally before Dobson), the previous 1st round pick to him was Keifer Bellows.

Also of all the homegrown/drafted players ion the team, this lineup was built with more later round picks than 1st rounders.

I don't get it, but whomever is running the 1st round (especially top 10) is still around from the snow years then they need to be replaced.

 

[Torrey Redux]

An online publication ranks the Islanders one of the best prospect pools in the NHL 6 years ago and they were wrong. Now that same online publication ranks the Islanders as the worst prospect pool and you're takeaway is that our scouting department is the issue...

Let me be clear, the scouting and development can be an issue but these articles from The Athletic shouldn't be used to make that determination at all.



I don't know enough about the pipelines of other teams to comment. Would I blindly swap prospect pools with other organizations without actually watching the prospects myself? No, absolutely not.

The rankings are quite literally meaningless. There is nothing that happens to them if they're wrong or right, they have no impact on what the NHL teams do. It's fan fodder and nothing more. Dom Luczyzzadfnadfdfn posts a model every year with his predictions, does that make it meaningful in some way? Absolutely not.

And also, you're really reaching if you took my comments to mean that it's a big crap shoot or that one prospect pool is as likely as another to pan out. Obviously that's not the case, though there is an element of luck/chance/randomness when drafting as well. The post is specifically about this website providing a ranking as if there's some objective way to do so and as though they're an authority on the matter when they're glorified bloggers.



The point I was making is why are any of you putting trust into a ranking system that has proven to be wrong in the past (and not just wrong, but hilariously wrong)? You shouldn't, it's stupid. It's no different than rankings we do here on this website.

This is such classic fan-think and tortured logic. If it isn't perfectly objective it's useless. If it isn't complimentary or is not 100% right 100% of the time or in some other way denigrates a person's preferred franchise then it is useless. Everything is subjective, right down to statistics, because they cannot capture every aspect of what went into achieving them. That does not make them useless, it just makes them one more imperfect tool in the kit.

And what do you mean I'm really reaching to come to the conclusion that I have? On the one hand you're saying that the metrics used to make such assessments are useless but then in the highlighted paragraph you acknowledge that prospect pools are not random or created equal, "obviously that's not the case" you write. Well if it's obviously not the case then how did you come to that conclusion? What are you relying on to make such a judgement? This isn't just one publication making this assessment, it is multiple publications based on the performance of the athletes being assessed. Does that mean that they are perfect predictors? Obviously not, but talent matters and the likelihood of the high end talent possessed by those franchises that are rated near the top panning out to a greater degree than those near the bottom is pretty strong.

So just to be clear, today, right now, if you could, relying only on the several publications that exist that rank such things, you would not blindly swap prospect pools with any one of the say five universally acknowledged top prospect pools in the NHL for what the Isles have? Is that correct?

 

[PK Cronin]

Incorrect.

YOU are "choosing" to make this conversation about The Athletic. I could give a shit about The Athletic.

What I am saying is that Wahlstrom, Ho-Sang, Wilde, and many of the other prospects that made The Athletic rank the Isles farm system #5 overall in 2018 have not panned out. That means that either the Isles scouts and/or development staff failed.

So who cares if the Islanders actually do have the "32nd ranked prospect pool." What is notable is that right now they are desperate to have more young talent in their lineup than Fashing, Aho, McLean, Bolduc, etc, and there aren't any options.

There are several reasons why this team isn't going to come close to a Cup this season and the scouting department over the. past decade or so, along with Lou giving them very few picks recently, are a big reason why.

If it isn't about The Athletic then you shouldn't have said that it's more evidence that the teams scouting is bad.

Just make the point without referencing either article.

What's interesting is how often the scouting department get's later round picks right (2-7) and yet completely can blow a 1st round pick. Even forgiving the Wahlstrom pick (which was the pick literally before Dobson), the previous 1st round pick to him was Keifer Bellows.

Also of all the homegrown/drafted players ion the team, this lineup was built with more later round picks than 1st rounders.

I don't get it, but whomever is running the 1st round (especially top 10) is still around from the snow years then they need to be replaced.

That's always been the thing with this team for the past 20+ years, right? If it's the same scouting personnel then it just seems like the GMs are weighing in more on these picks than on the later ones and our GMs aren't particularly good at evaluating talent.

Maybe another component is the interviews that high end first rounders get and the guys we draft are just doing a good job in those? I don't know, just spit-balling because it doesn't really make sense to miss as frequently as they do. Some of those were "consensus" picks too so there's that.

This is such classic fan-think and tortured logic. If it isn't perfectly objective it's useless. If it isn't complimentary or is not 100% right 100% of the time or in some other way denigrates a person's preferred franchise then it is useless. Everything is subjective, right down to statistics, because they cannot capture every aspect of what went into achieving them. That does not make them useless, it just makes them one more imperfect tool in the kit.

This isn't someone breaking down the game and talking about differing strategic components to a game or how a player should or shouldn't have done something. This is pure fantasy, otherwise the previous rankings wouldn't be a laughing matter now. Dom Luzcyzyyzandndfn (he'll be my stand in for everything over there because he's such a clown) and his opinions mean very little because he has a shitty track record. The same is true for the draft rankings and prospect pool rankings. If they're wrong just as much or more than you or I then they aren't valuable.

The Athletic is good at reporting information and they're not good at predicting things.

And what do you mean I'm really reaching to come to the conclusion that I have? On the one hand you're saying that the metrics used to make such assessments are useless but then in the highlighted paragraph you acknowledge that prospect pools are not random or created equal, "obviously that's not the case" you write. Well if it's obviously not the case then how did you come to that conclusion? What are you relying on to make such a judgement? This isn't just one publication making this assessment, it is multiple publications based on the performance of the athletes being assessed. Does that mean that they are perfect predictors? Obviously not, but talent matters and the likelihood of the high end talent possessed by those franchises that are rated near the top panning out to a greater degree than those near the bottom is pretty strong.

The prospect pool actual rankings has nothing to do with the rankings provided by any publication. People aren't equal so it stands to reason that the players also wouldn't be equal in their abilities on the ice. There must be a hierarchy of some sort but how that gets sorted or ranked is up to you but just because a publication is listing them in a particular manner doesn't mean anything, especially when you consider how wrong those publications are on a routine basis.

So just to be clear, today, right now, if you could, relying only on the several publications that exist that rank such things, you would not blindly swap prospect pools with any one of the say five universally acknowledged top prospect pools in the NHL for what the Isles have? Is that correct?

You're entering an appeal to authority territory here and I don't really like engaging with logical fallacies like that.

Would you swap the prospect pool for Unicycle Polo Team A (I'm assuming you don't watch this, but hey, I could be wrong) with those of other teams with better ranked prospect pools solely provided by people who watch the sport? There isn't a right or wrong answer, you either feel comfortable appealing to authority or you don't.

In this particular instance I know enough about the Islanders prospect pool, the NHL, and prospects in general to say that I'd swap with a lot of teams around the league. That isn't because any publication has a ranking system, it's because I've come to that conclusion from consuming and learning about the topic on my own.

 

[saintunspecified]

Not really interested in a debate. NYI's prospect pool is bare. Why?

1. No 1st round picks since 2019, duh.

2. 2nd round picks hit or miss.

- 2019 Bolduc? Great tools... meh
-2020 None
- 2021 Raty, gone in deal
- 2022 Odelius - only Chapin knows. Size/strength/durability seem questionable. But if they weren't, he'd have been a 1st rounder.
- 2023 Nelson - closest NYI have to a sure thing. IMO he will be a NHL player. Could be a bottom 6 winger, but he could be more. Big, average mobility, and above-average IQ is a good starting combo.

Seems normal for 2nd rounders.

3. No 3rd round or later home runs (yet). Best bets to become NHL players imo are Finley, George, and Berg (nobody talks about him). Maybe Jefferies. All seem bottom-6 or bottom pair at best. But at least 3 are very good skaters unlike Dufour, Maggio.

So, it seems more to have been about philosophy than scouting. But I don't think there's been a change in scouting personnel since NYI hit with Toews and Sorokin in 2014. The last time before that in which NYI hit big in the later rounds was 2009.

Is it reasonable to say NYI have failed in later rounds? Maybe.

Also, NYI have too often made mistakes picking players high who weren't premium athletes (Bellows, Reinhart, Wahlstrom, Dal Colle). I think this is probably the most important criticism of NYI's scouting/decision making over the years. And it seems NYI have taken the hint. Even if the Bolducs, Nelsons, and Georges don't pan out, at least they can move with or muscle along with NHL'ers.

 

[The Real JT]

Not really interested in a debate. NYI's prospect pool is bare. Why?

1. No 1st round picks since 2019, duh.

2. 2nd round picks hit or miss.

- 2019 Bolduc? Great tools... meh
-2020 None
- 2021 Raty, gone in deal
- 2022 Odelius - only Chapin knows. Size/strength/durability seem questionable. But if they weren't, he'd have been a 1st rounder.
- 2023 Nelson - closest NYI have to a sure thing. IMO he will be a NHL player. Could be a bottom 6 winger, but he could be more. Big, average mobility, and above-average IQ is a good starting combo.

Seems normal for 2nd rounders.

3. No 3rd round or later home runs (yet). Best bets to become NHL players imo are Finley, George, and Berg (nobody talks about him). Maybe Jefferies. All seem bottom-6 or bottom pair at best. But at least 3 are very good skaters unlike Dufour, Maggio.

So, it seems more to have been about philosophy than scouting. But I don't think there's been a change in scouting personnel since NYI hit with Toews and Sorokin in 2014. The last time before that in which NYI hit big in the later rounds was 2009.

Is it reasonable to say NYI have failed in later rounds? Maybe.

Also, NYI have too often made mistakes picking players high who weren't premium athletes (Bellows, Reinhart, Wahlstrom, Dal Colle). I think this is probably the most important criticism of NYI's scouting/decision making over the years. And it seems NYI have taken the hint. Even if the Bolducs, Nelsons, and Georges don't pan out, at least they can move with or muscle along with NHL'ers.

Great summary and take.

I’m encouraged by some of the recent mid round picks including Dufour, Maggio and Finley. We need them for their talent, their bargain salaries to offset the higher priced players, and we also need them to push the veterans to produce more.

As you stated, it’s sobering to think that you have to go back in the draft archives to Toews and Sorokin to find an overachieving mid round pick. Sure, those picks fail more often than not, but in our case, it’s been way more often than that.

 

[Torrey Redux]

If it isn't about The Athletic then you shouldn't have said that it's more evidence that the teams scouting is bad.

Just make the point without referencing either article.



That's always been the thing with this team for the past 20+ years, right? If it's the same scouting personnel then it just seems like the GMs are weighing in more on these picks than on the later ones and our GMs aren't particularly good at evaluating talent.

Maybe another component is the interviews that high end first rounders get and the guys we draft are just doing a good job in those? I don't know, just spit-balling because it doesn't really make sense to miss as frequently as they do. Some of those were "consensus" picks too so there's that.



This isn't someone breaking down the game and talking about differing strategic components to a game or how a player should or shouldn't have done something. This is pure fantasy, otherwise the previous rankings wouldn't be a laughing matter now. Dom Luzcyzyyzandndfn (he'll be my stand in for everything over there because he's such a clown) and his opinions mean very little because he has a shitty track record. The same is true for the draft rankings and prospect pool rankings. If they're wrong just as much or more than you or I then they aren't valuable.

The Athletic is good at reporting information and they're not good at predicting things.



The prospect pool actual rankings has nothing to do with the rankings provided by any publication. People aren't equal so it stands to reason that the players also wouldn't be equal in their abilities on the ice. There must be a hierarchy of some sort but how that gets sorted or ranked is up to you but just because a publication is listing them in a particular manner doesn't mean anything, especially when you consider how wrong those publications are on a routine basis.



You're entering an appeal to authority territory here and I don't really like engaging with logical fallacies like that.

Would you swap the prospect pool for Unicycle Polo Team A (I'm assuming you don't watch this, but hey, I could be wrong) with those of other teams with better ranked prospect pools solely provided by people who watch the sport? There isn't a right or wrong answer, you either feel comfortable appealing to authority or you don't.

In this particular instance I know enough about the Islanders prospect pool, the NHL, and prospects in general to say that I'd swap with a lot of teams around the league. That isn't because any publication has a ranking system, it's because I've come to that conclusion from consuming and learning about the topic on my own.

Blah, blah logical fallacies. Give me a break. But hey, at least you are willing to admit that you'd swap the Isles prospect pool, and these your words, "with a lot of teams", so that means you know that where we are in that regard is not good. However, since you apparently have come to that conclusion using sources independent of such lists, I have to ask, where do you learn the things that you learn "on [your] own"? Do you fly around to all of the various junior tournaments, development camps and college and minor league venues? Do you sit at work and watch streams from overseas? And after doing so do you compile a spreadsheet with who belongs to who and who has what draft rights to keep it all straight? Doubtful in all cases.

Whether you are willing to admit it or not, and clearly you're not, the information gets to you through the media for the most part, including such lists as the one you are trying so hard to shit on. Whether that particular one deserves to be shit on or not, I don't know, but it's conclusions are matched virtually everywhere else among the mainstream hockey press and those are compiled by people who, I'm guessing, have a lot more direct access and knowledge than you do. And again, you've already validated their conclusions with your admission that you'd swap with a lot of teams so whether theirs is a shit list or not, it appears that you agree with them that Isles are somewhere near the bottom.

 

[doublechili]

it's conclusions are matched virtually everywhere else among the mainstream hockey press and those are compiled by people who, I'm guessing, have a lot more direct access and knowledge than you do.

They really don't. It's mostly just regurgitation of prior ranking and looking at stats - that's why they're mostly similar. But similarity doesn't equate with legitimacy.

 

[PK Cronin]

Blah, blah logical fallacies. Give me a break.

You asked a dumb question, give me a break. Logic is hard sometimes, I know.

But hey, at least you are willing to admit that you'd swap the Isles prospect pool, and these your words, "with a lot of teams", so that means you know that where we are in that regard is not good.

I never said it was in a good place.

However, since you apparently have come to that conclusion using sources independent of such lists, I have to ask, where do you learn the things that you learn "on [your] own"? Do you fly around to all of the various junior tournaments, development camps and college and minor league venues? Do you sit at work and watch streams from overseas? And after doing so do you compile a spreadsheet with who belongs to who and who has what draft rights to keep it all straight? Doubtful in all cases.

Oh gheez, this bullshit.

I watch some tournaments, yes. I'll watch clips from different leagues, yes. I have attended multiple minor league venues, yes. I've attended multiple NHL venues as well (even when the Islanders aren't playing ). I recently had access to a website that has clips of every player's shifts in multiple leagues across the globe. I don't think I need to compile spreadsheets to have an informed decision. I've never suggested I'm a great scout either. This has nothing to do with whether or not these lists should be given any level of credibility.

Whether you are willing to admit it or not, and clearly you're not, the information gets to you through the media for the most part, including such lists as the one you are trying so hard to shit on. Whether that particular one deserves to be shit on or not, I don't know, but it's conclusions are matched virtually everywhere else among the mainstream hockey press and those are compiled by people who, I'm guessing, have a lot more direct access and knowledge than you do.

Some of the information I receive is through media, absolutely. You're once again straw manning. I never said that media is wrong 100% of the time, I said these lists are useless. I even said that The Athletic is good at reporting but not predicting. If you can't comprehend the difference that's on you.

And again, you've already validated their conclusions with your admission that you'd swap with a lot of teams so whether theirs is a shit list or not, it appears that you agree with them that Isles are somewhere near the bottom.

You're completely missing the point, still.

What people should care about is whether or not they think the New York Islanders are doing a good job drafting and developing talent. I don't care if it agrees with everything I think. The people who compiled the list are wrong so often the list is meaningless.

 

[PK Cronin]

They really don't. It's mostly just regurgitation of prior ranking and looking at stats - that's why they're mostly similar. But similarity doesn't equate with legitimacy.

Nah man, don't you see, they have their work published on a website so they're experts! They watch film on every single prospect in existence and then compile that into something coherent to make the list.

Quick question though, who does The Athletic have covering the New York Islanders again?

 

[Torrey Redux]

They really don't. It's mostly just regurgitation of prior ranking and looking at stats - that's why they're mostly similar. But similarity doesn't equate with legitimacy.

This whole discussion started with a list and the person who took most issue with it has backed off pretty much completely and admitted that he would swap ours for there's with "many teams". So what the hell is the argument about if the people who don't like the list ultimately agree with it's conclusion about Islanders?

THAT LIST IS f***ING JOKE AND IS MEANINGLESS (but I agree with it-shhh). Just plain stupid.

 

[Torrey Redux]

You asked a dumb question, give me a break. Logic is hard sometimes, I know.



I never said it was in a good place.



Oh gheez, this bullshit.

I watch some tournaments, yes. I'll watch clips from different leagues, yes. I have attended multiple minor league venues, yes. I've attended multiple NHL venues as well (even when the Islanders aren't playing ). I recently had access to a website that has clips of every player's shifts in multiple leagues across the globe. I don't think I need to compile spreadsheets to have an informed decision. I've never suggested I'm a great scout either. This has nothing to do with whether or not these lists should be given any level of credibility.



Some of the information I receive is through media, absolutely. You're once again straw manning. I never said that media is wrong 100% of the time, I said these lists are useless. I even said that The Athletic is good at reporting but not predicting. If you can't comprehend the difference that's on you.



You're completely missing the point, still.

What people should care about is whether or not they think the New York Islanders are doing a good job drafting and developing talent. I don't care if it agrees with everything I think. The people who compiled the list are wrong so often the list is meaningless.

No, dude, the guy who has missed the point is you. Nobody here gives a shit about the list or whether it is meaningless or not, they care and believe that it is almost certainly correct as it relates to the Islanders. Even you.

 

[PK Cronin]

This whole discussion started with a list and the person who took most issue with it has backed off pretty much completely and admitted that he would swap ours for there's with "many teams". So what the hell is the argument about if the people who don't like the list ultimately agree with it's conclusion about Islanders?

THAT LIST IS f***ING JOKE AND IS MEANINGLESS (but I agree with it-shhh). Just plain stupid.

No, dude, the guy who has missed the point is you. Nobody here gives a shit about the list or whether it is meaningless or not, they care and believe that it is almost certainly correct as it relates to the Islanders. Even you.

I didn't back off, you simply don't understand. That's fine, have a great night.

 

[doublechili]

This whole discussion started with a list and the person who took most issue with it has backed off pretty much completely and admitted that he would swap ours for there's with "many teams". So what the hell is the argument about if the people who don't like the list ultimately agree with it's conclusion about Islanders?

THAT LIST IS f***ING JOKE AND IS MEANINGLESS (but I agree with it-shhh). Just plain stupid.

I honestly have no opinion of the Isles' prospects. I've seen way too many times where hyped guys ended up busting and nobodies ended up being great. NHL GMs trade away guys who end up being stars. It's all a big crapshoot. Do you have better odds if you have more picks, and if more of them are higher picks? Yes. But that doesn't mean that lower picks can't, through either blooming later or being developed properly, end up being great players. How many guys did we used to hype while totally ignoring Toews, and who ended up being the better player (after 4 years in the AHL)? Dufour could end up being a better NHLer than Zegras. We just don't know.

 

[Torrey Redux]

I didn't back off, you simply don't understand. That's fine, have a great night.

100% you did and you know it.

And now you can go back to compiling all of your "on your own" independent data just to reach the same conclusion as the "meaningless" lists do. And you have a great night doing it as well.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Not really interested in a debate. NYI's prospect pool is bare. Why?

I really like this post! Have a few thoughts here and there.

2. 2nd round picks hit or miss.

- 2019 Bolduc? Great tools... meh
-2020 None
- 2021 Raty, gone in deal
- 2022 Odelius - only Chapin knows. Size/strength/durability seem questionable. But if they weren't, he'd have been a 1st rounder.

I know people in the bizz directly who were very high on him. I thought he was a great pick up for where we got him. He's already got a lot of pro experience for a kid his age and is a thick part of that group featuring Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, Ostlund, and Lindbom (G), all of whom are having good-great years in the SHL this season.

I think that in Odelius, we do have a guy coming up who'll be a taller, leaner, smoother version of Aho. When he has his man strength, he should be a solid transitional Dman. He was primed for a big year with Djurgarden. The leg injury has not only cost him valuable developmental time, but a WJC spot in his home country. It's tough luck for him - and for us.

If all goes really well, he could even one day be as important to this blueline as Romanov has become. Those tools are there. May even be a better skater. That's my sincere take.

- 2023 Nelson - closest NYI have to a sure thing. IMO he will be a NHL player. Could be a bottom 6 winger, but he could be more. Big, average mobility, and above-average IQ is a good starting combo.

I'd like to reiterate this. Nelson looks like a surefire future NHLer at this point, even if it'll be in a lower line capacity. I think his downside may be that of a Brian Boyle nature.

He was a very fine pick in the 2nd round and has "Islanders" written all over him. Slots right in with the Lees and Nelsons of the world.

3. No 3rd round or later home runs (yet). Best bets to become NHL players imo are Finley, George, and Berg (nobody talks about him). Maybe Jefferies. All seem bottom-6 or bottom pair at best. But at least 3 are very good skaters unlike Dufour, Maggio.

For my taste, particularly Finley and Jefferies (a 4th rounder) are very interesting at this point. That has much to do with their style of skating and what they do with the puck. They're looking like astute picks. Can't even venture to say if they'll make it to this league one day. Both need to bulk up, but are athletic.

Berg has been having a nice season after a fairly slow start with his new team, North Dakota. Of course, that's a pretty loaded team. He's been hot since before Christmas. When I've seen him, I dunno what makes him more than a larger version of Collin Adams, and we all saw what that meant for us as an organization, namely zilch. He's trending upwards, at least when determining whether he's the type to get an ELC.

George is a guy who has gotten a lot of love around these parts. I'm more worried. I see more warts and the definite possibility that he may be a guy with plenty of tools and no toolbox. Still, I'd say it's totally in his hands to become a Mike Reilly style NHLer, without the hunched-over skating. He's started picking things up in the OHL recently, but he's playing with a powerhouse and I had expected much more of him with that outfit by now.

Both George and Odelius have their ELCs, so we'll be seeing them in BPort within the next two years.

And speaking of 3rd rounders, I think Ljungkrantz is still in the picture for this organization. My guess is that they'll either sign and lend him to Färjestad next season or they've already got a path in place where he spends 1-2 years in the SHL and comes over like Tikkanen did, but with a surefire spot in the AHL right off the bat (no ECHL time). From watching him in the HockeyAllsvenskan, I see reason to believe he's a poor man's Holmstrom.

Is it reasonable to say NYI have failed in later rounds? Maybe.

Traditionally, the staff has been good in the 5th-7th round over the past 15-20 years. In Lou's time, the first 3 drafts brought us Dufour out of these rounds. He's a legit prospect. Blade Jenkins and Reece Newkirk were the other two players to have gotten an ELC. 4 others were brought in via the AHL. Two of them have exited the orgainzation.

The past 3 drafts are looking to tell a slightly better story.

Liukas could be another Matt Martin. Maggio has Brendan Gallagher vibes (without the cheapshots). Justin Gill can clearly produce points at the junior level and has the skating and body for AHL play. Can he make it grow there too? Zach Schulz was as safe a stay-at-home Dman as you could possibly take in the 6th round and has been fine as a true freshman at Wisconsin.

Also, NYI have too often made mistakes picking players high who weren't premium athletes (Bellows, Reinhart, Wahlstrom, Dal Colle). I think this is probably the most important criticism of NYI's scouting/decision making over the years. And it seems NYI have taken the hint. Even if the Bolducs, Nelsons, and Georges don't pan out, at least they can move with or muscle along with NHL'ers.

Very interesting take. I totally understand it. And other than Reinhart, who had the size and pedigree to be a shutdown Dman, the three others were each drafted with the hope that they'd come in here and snipe. Yes, simply snipe. That was their destiny as Isles.

We've all seen what has come of that.

I've watched Reinhart and now Dal Colle over here in the DEL. This league also features the likes of Virtanen, Shinkaruk, and Shenyshyn, so I'm almost counting on Bellows being over here at some point too.

Reinhart eventually got us Barzal, so I'm not gonna fuss about that selection, but it has been BRUTAL for this organization to take three first rounders who were all selected to be goalscorers and NONE of them are doing that for us. Just BRUTAL to strike out that often with a need that has been eternally prevalent for this team.

We needed just one to be what Tippett has been for Philly.

And at the end of the day, that's still the type of asset that is rarely obtained outside of the first round of the draft. Either that, or you pay one hell of ransom to get it in free agency, although it's not even available all too often in free agency either.

The search continues. Will it continue again this summer without a 1st rounder?

 

[Glory Days]

Than

I really like this post! Have a few thoughts here and there.



I know people in the bizz directly who were very high on him. I thought he was a great pick up for where we got him. He's already got a lot of pro experience for a kid his age and is a thick part of that group featuring Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, Ostlund, and Lindbom (G), all of whom are having good-great years in the SHL this season.

I think that in Odelius, we do have a guy coming up who'll be a taller, leaner, smoother version of Aho. When he has his man strength, he should be a solid transitional Dman. He was primed for a big year with Djurgarden. The leg injury has not only cost him valuable developmental time, but a WJC spot in his home country. It's tough luck for him - and for us.

If all goes really well, he could even one day be as important to this blueline as Romanov has become. Those tools are there. May even be a better skater. That's my sincere take.



I'd like to reiterate this. Nelson looks like a surefire future NHLer at this point, even if it'll be in a lower line capacity. I think his downside may be that of a Brian Boyle nature.

He was a very fine pick in the 2nd round and has "Islanders" written all over him. Slots right in with the Lees and Nelsons of the world.



For my taste, particularly Finley and Jefferies (a 4th rounder) are very interesting at this point. That has much to do with their style of skating and what they do with the puck. They're looking like astute picks. Can't even venture to say if they'll make it to this league one day. Both need to bulk up, but are athletic.

Berg has been having a nice season after a fairly slow start with his new team, North Dakota. Of course, that's a pretty loaded team. He's been hot since before Christmas. When I've seen him, I dunno what makes him more than a larger version of Collin Adams, and we all saw what that meant for us as an organization, namely zilch. He's trending upwards, at least when determining whether he's the type to get an ELC.

George is a guy who has gotten a lot of love around these parts. I'm more worried. I see more warts and the definite possibility that he may be a guy with plenty of tools and no toolbox. Still, I'd say it's totally in his hands to become a Mike Reilly style NHLer, without the hunched-over skating. He's started picking things up in the OHL recently, but he's playing with a powerhouse and I had expected much more of him with that outfit by now.

Both George and Odelius have their ELCs, so we'll be seeing them in BPort within the next two years.

And speaking of 3rd rounders, I think Ljungkrantz is still in the picture for this organization. My guess is that they'll either sign and lend him to Färjestad next season or they've already got a path in place where he spends 1-2 years in the SHL and comes over like Tikkanen did, but with a surefire spot in the AHL right off the bat (no ECHL time). From watching him in the HockeyAllsvenskan, I see reason to believe he's a poor man's Holmstrom.



Traditionally, the staff has been good in the 5th-7th round over the past 15-20 years. In Lou's time, the first 3 drafts brought us Dufour out of these rounds. He's a legit prospect. Blade Jenkins and Reece Newkirk were the other two players to have gotten an ELC. 4 others were brought in via the AHL. Two of them have exited the orgainzation.

The past 3 drafts are looking to tell a slightly better story.

Liukas could be another Matt Martin. Maggio has Brendan Gallagher vibes (without the cheapshots). Justin Gill can clearly produce points at the junior level and has the skating and body for AHL play. Can he make it grow there too? Zach Schulz was as safe a stay-at-home Dman as you could possibly take in the 6th round and has been fine as a true freshman at Wisconsin.



Very interesting take. I totally understand it. And other than Reinhart, who had the size and pedigree to be a shutdown Dman, the three others were each drafted with the hope that they'd come in here and snipe. Yes, simply snipe. That was their destiny as Isles.

We've all seen what has come of that.

I've watched Reinhart and now Dal Colle over here in the DEL. This league also features the likes of Virtanen, Shinkaruk, and Shenyshyn, so I'm almost counting on Bellows being over here at some point too.

Reinhart eventually got us Barzal, so I'm not gonna fuss about that selection, but it has been BRUTAL for this organization to take three first rounders who were all selected to be goalscorers and NONE of them are doing that for us. Just BRUTAL to strike out that often with a need that has been eternally prevalent for this team.

We needed just one to be what Tippett has been for Philly.

And at the end of the day, that's still the type of asset that is rarely obtained outside of the first round of the draft. Either that, or you pay one hell of ransom to get it in free agency, although it's not even available all too often in free agency either.

The search continues. Will it continue again this summer without a 1st rounder?

Thanks for posting. Just maybe the prospect pool isn’t as bad as the Athletic claims.

 

[saintunspecified]

We needed just one to be what Tippett has been for Philly.

Thanks for the response, which I agree with. And Tippett is, even if he didn't pan out (he didn't seem to initally), what I'd say is a good failure. He is one of the 5-6 most explosive North/South skaters in the league. It makes sense to bet on that.

The search continues. Will it continue again this summer without a 1st rounder?

I don't think there's any reason to believe NYI will spend their 1st on a rental or a pending UFA. And the under control young NHLer market doesn't really happen until the draft. I could see NYI trading the 1st at the draft as in the Romanov deal, but not in another scenario. And I think that would be fine (because Romanov > Nazar in 3-4 years), but I think it is very unlikely. I think NYI will use their 1st.

 

[Metnut]

There's room in between meaningless and gospel. This guy covers NHL prospects full time and watches these guys live all the time. It's literally his job. Him saying the Isles rank #32 doesn't necessarily mean they in fact have the worst prospects, but it does mean that someone who takes this very seriously and isn't connected to any team, thinks the prospect pool is awful.

Does anyone really disagree with him though? No one here actually thinks NYI has a top 20 prospect pool right? They've traded away their picks for years and haven't had an impact player come from the farm other than Dobson (who was a lottery pick) in a long time.

The bottom line is that the NHL team is on the wrong side of the bubble, has tons of long term contracts that are going to make adding to the roster difficult for years to come, and there is unlikely to be much help coming from the minors for a while.

The overall health of the organization doesn't look great at the moment. We're basically all-in on hoping Roy is able to engineer a dramatic turnaround over the rest of this year and going forward. Maybe he can do that (I'm certainly rooting for it, despite the ugly situation there is absolutely real talent on the NHL roster), but I don't think there's a lot of other fanbases that would want to swap into NYI's position.

 

[saintunspecified]

I’m encouraged by some of the recent mid round picks including Dufour, Maggio and Finley. We need them for their talent, their bargain salaries to offset the higher priced players, and we also need them to push the veterans to produce more.

This is really important. And it is why I'm higher on Finley, Nelson, and Jefferies than I am on Dufour, Maggio. I believe all three of Finley, Nelson, and Jefferies show the potential to be good role players & PKers. And both Finley, and Nelson were very good for the USA WJC teams as role players. So they've already had that experience. They have the right kind of motors.

 

[Zeeker]

There's room in between meaningless and gospel. This guy covers NHL prospects full time and watches these guys live all the time. It's literally his job. Him saying the Isles rank #32 doesn't necessarily mean they in fact have the worst prospects, but it does mean that someone who takes this very seriously and isn't connected to any team, thinks the prospect pool is awful.

Does anyone really disagree with him though? No one here actually thinks NYI has a top 20 prospect pool right? They've traded away their picks for years and haven't had an impact player come from the farm other than Dobson (who was a lottery pick) in a long time.

The bottom line is that the NHL team is on the wrong side of the bubble, has tons of long term contracts that are going to make adding to the roster difficult for years to come, and there is unlikely to be much help coming from the minors for a while.

The overall health of the organization doesn't look great at the moment. We're basically all-in on hoping Roy is able to engineer a dramatic turnaround over the rest of this year and going forward. Maybe he can do that (I'm certainly rooting for it, despite the ugly situation there is absolutely real talent on the NHL roster), but I don't think there's a lot of other fanbases that would want to swap into NYI's position.

Nope. Because we were mis-ranked once on that list six years ago, it’s completely invalidated and our prospect pool is actually fine.

 

[Potvottier]

I agree that we don't have much in the way of prospects that are drafted high. That doesn't mean we don't have good prospects. There are always a few surprises and having a good development system goes a long way. I don't know that much about ours to say that it is good or not, but it seems average, at least under the Lou Lamorello regime.

A team can make up for a loss of picks by hiring free agents. It's not a game that I would engage in regularly if I were GM, But the advantage is that it helps immediately.

We don't have a lot of highly skilled players, but we do have a lot of character players. Given my druthers, I would rather have a team of middle Sixers, than two lines of skilled players, and two lines of grinders. That's just my preference, but I could understand how people would want the other option.

I definitely think that we need to start keeping our top two picks. And even if we win the Stanley Cup this year, I still think that we would benefit from a few small changes for next year's squad. I think this year that our average start is partly due to motivation, and we could benefit from competition, all year long. Not just in camp.

I would guess that probably one of the more positive fans when it comes to our prospect base. A surprise here and there is expected, as much as a disappointment, here and there. It's like a bunch of chocolates, and I don't see any reason to be upset about our particular situation.

 

[PK Cronin]

There's room in between meaningless and gospel.

Absolutely.

This guy covers NHL prospects full time and watches these guys live all the time. It's literally his job. Him saying the Isles rank #32 doesn't necessarily mean they in fact have the worst prospects, but it does mean that someone who takes this very seriously and isn't connected to any team, thinks the prospect pool is awful.

Does anyone really disagree with him though? No one here actually thinks NYI has a top 20 prospect pool right? They've traded away their picks for years and haven't had an impact player come from the farm other than Dobson (who was a lottery pick) in a long time.

Did anyone disagree with him when the Islanders had the 5th best prospect pool? Probably not. What did that mean for the Islanders or the fans? Ultimately nothing. That makes these lists meaningless in my opinion. They're created by a singular person who is attempting to cover hundreds of players and then rank them in in some manner based on criteria they set for themselves, all in an attempt to generate interest and clicks for a publication they work for.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, it's fun to read that sort of stuff. It just doesn't translate to anything tangible.

Just want to note that just because a person does something for a living doesn't mean they're actually good at it. The Islanders have scouts whose job it is to do the same thing, but way more in-depth than Wheeler, and they seem to be struggling.

The bottom line is that the NHL team is on the wrong side of the bubble, has tons of long term contracts that are going to make adding to the roster difficult for years to come, and there is unlikely to be much help coming from the minors for a while.

The overall health of the organization doesn't look great at the moment. We're basically all-in on hoping Roy is able to engineer a dramatic turnaround over the rest of this year and going forward. Maybe he can do that (I'm certainly rooting for it, despite the ugly situation there is absolutely real talent on the NHL roster), but I don't think there's a lot of other fanbases that would want to swap into NYI's position.

I don't think anyone would disagree with your assessment here. We didn't need Scott Wheeler to tell us what we already knew.

If you guys like these lists and think it matters, enjoy them. That's why they're made.

 

[doublechili]

I don't think there's any reason to believe NYI will spend their 1st on a rental or a pending UFA. And the under control young NHLer market doesn't really happen until the draft. I could see NYI trading the 1st at the draft as in the Romanov deal, but not in another scenario. And I think that would be fine (because Romanov > Nazar in 3-4 years), but I think it is very unlikely. I think NYI will use their 1st.

I tend to lean your way in thinking the Isles may keep the #1 pick this year. Obviously some great opportunity could come about where they trade it. But if they add at the deadline I can see it being a lesser player who doesn't cost a 1st (eg., Duclair), or maybe a change of scenery swap of one of our young guys for another team's young guy that our scouts like and where we upgrade our skill level (I don't know who fits this definition and/or is available - but guys like Hoglander and Frost come to mind).

 

[leeroggy]

This is really important. And it is why I'm higher on Finley, Nelson, and Jefferies than I am on Dufour, Maggio. I believe all three of Finley, Nelson, and Jefferies show the potential to be good role players & PKers. And both Finley, and Nelson were very good for the USA WJC teams as role players. So they've already had that experience. They have the right kind of motors.

Why is being a good role player on the WJC a better credential than dominating a Memorial Cup run to a title?

I was always high on Dobson after watching his Memorial Cup performances and Dufour was the same. Dufour will be an NHL scorer.